UK UK - Alistair Wilson, 30, murdered at home, Nairn, Scotland, 28 Nov 2004

[crazychris]

My own view is that this case will remain unsolved, unless by death bed confession, because there is no connection between the perpetrator and the victim, and no connection between the victim and the motivation of the perpetrator.

I agree. After 20+ years, almost 21, I can't see how it will be solved unless cops are hanging on to a lot of info that we have no idea about.

 

[crazychris]

So possibly:

AW was given an empty envelope which he knows what it was for.
He was given an empty empty envelope and he did know what it was for.
He removed the contents before showing it to VW.
He was only pretending to be confused when discussing it with VW.
He put something in it before going back outside.
He took an empty envelope back outside as he didn't know what it was for.
He took an empty envelope back outside as he was refusing to comply with the callers demands.
He disposed of it in some way.

There is an alternative favoured by some. THERE WAS NO ENVELOPE at all.

 

[davidt]

There is an alternative favoured by some. THERE WAS NO ENVELOPE at all.

Yes I'm aware of that as well. We just have the word of one person for its existence. There's nothing much else we can really say about it. I think we just have to take VW at face value. But it is of course something to consider. Assuming it did exist it would have been destroyed years ago. Its not as though it's going to turn up.

 

[davidt]

I agree. After 20+ years, almost 21, I can't see how it will be solved unless cops are hanging on to a lot of info that we have no idea about.

They'll definitely have quite a bit. We know AW discussed the matter with VW. He must have told her about the initial doorstep conversation even if he didn't know what was going on. None of that has been released. It's obviously not helped in catching the culprit but presumably would add corroboration if someone was caught. How much other information they have is anyone's guess. On top of that the official line of events clearly makes little sense as it stands and suggests many gaps.

We do know if wasn't a case of someone knocking on a random door as he asked for Alastair Wilson. Doesn't rule out it being the "wrong" Alastair Wilson though.

 

[Konstantin]

Yes I'm aware of that as well. We just have the word of one person for its existence. There's nothing much else we can really say about it. I think we just have to take VW at face value. But it is of course something to consider. Assuming it did exist it would have been destroyed years ago. Its not as though it's going to turn up.

I can't see why VW would lie about it. She wants the police to catch whoever did this.

Again I think the envelope is so bizarre that the best explanation for me is that the killer was just psychotic. The envelope meant something to him. But clearly not to AW. AW does not really seem like a man who had a complex double life, his life was thoroughly investigated by police. This isn't a TV spy drama. I think this won't be solved because there is no coherent story to what happened.

Big events make us think there should be big explanations -- a complex conspiracy involving acronyms on the back of an envelope in code linked to financial wrongdoing, but that has all been thoroughly investigated and nothing turned up. So perhaps there is no big explanation and AW just somehow tripped the wires of a mentally ill man who suffered a psychosis.

 

[davidt]

I can't see why VW would lie about it. She wants the police to catch whoever did this.

Again I think the envelope is so bizarre that the best explanation for me is that the killer was just psychotic. The envelope meant something to him. But clearly not to AW. AW does not really seem like a man who had a complex double life, his life was thoroughly investigated by police. This isn't a TV spy drama. I think this won't be solved because there is no coherent story to what happened.

Big events make us think there should be big explanations -- a complex conspiracy involving acronyms on the back of an envelope in code linked to financial wrongdoing, but that has all been thoroughly investigated and nothing turned up. So perhaps there is no big explanation and AW just somehow tripped the wires of a mentally ill man who suffered a psychosis.

On,y reason I can think of would be if VW was involved in any way. I don't think there is any evidence at all of this being the case although there were reports of VW being subjected to unsubstantiated rumours. As I say we have to assume the envelope existed. Personally I wonder more why the police made an appeal about it so many years later. There's next to no chance anyone will have any information. It's not like asking if someone saw a particular vehicle or something. It's an envelope that almost certainly no one else has ever seen. I doubt this bloke was walking around waving it in the air. So I do wonder if this appeal has some other motive. Perhaps they wanted to publicise the envelope for some reason and make it known they were looking in to it.

 

[crazychris]

We do know if wasn't a case of someone knocking on a random door as he asked for Alastair Wilson. Doesn't rule out it being the "wrong" Alastair Wilson though.

Assume the murder team looked very carefully at the other Alistair Wilson in Nairn but wonder if anything was missed. He's dead now though but never spoke publicly and refused to engage with journalists who I believe did track him down. He was much older and not involved in anything dogy as far as the police could tell.

 

[dotr]

By Stuart Findlay November 28 2019

15 years of twists and turns but no arrest, motive or suspect in the Alistair Wilson murder case

Today marks 15 years since the murder of Nairn banker Alistair Wilson. In part four of our web series about the case, we examine the many twists, turns,

www.pressandjournal.co.uk

“It was tiny, no bigger than the palm of my hand. We were later told that it was the type of gun Russian prostitutes used, as it was small enough to hide in their tights.''

The gun used to kill Alistair Wilson.
''Four-and-a-half inches long and weighing around 400g, the appeal of this gun was clearly how easy it would be to conceal it.
Only 11 Haenel Schmeissers have been recovered in the UK in the past decade.''

 

[CSIAngus]

They'll definitely have quite a bit. We know AW discussed the matter with VW. He must have told her about the initial doorstep conversation even if he didn't know what was going on. None of that has been released. It's obviously not helped in catching the culprit but presumably would add corroboration if someone was caught. How much other information they have is anyone's guess. On top of that the official line of events clearly makes little sense as it stands and suggests many gaps.

We do know if wasn't a case of someone knocking on a random door as he asked for Alastair Wilson. Doesn't rule out it being the "wrong" Alistair Wilson though.

If we can doubt the detail of the envelope, we can surely doubt that AW was asked for by name. Was it 'your husband', was it Mr Wilson, was it Alistair, or was it Alistair Wilson? Again, this detail, along with the existence of an envelope with PAUL on the back, is entirely the contribution of VW.

 

[davidt]

Assume the murder team looked very carefully at the other Alistair Wilson in Nairn but wonder if anything was missed. He's dead now though but never spoke publicly and refused to engage with journalists who I believe did track him down. He was much older and not involved in anything dogy as far as the police could tell.

They did and have said they are confident it wasn't a case of mistaken identity. I think that will always be debatable unless the case is solved.

 

[davidt]

If we can doubt the detail of the envelope, we can surely doubt that AW was asked for by name. Was it 'your husband', was it Mr Wilson, was it Alistair, or was it Alistair Wilson? Again, this detail, along with the existence of an envelope with PAUL on the back, is entirely the contribution of VW.

Well the thing is just about everything comes from VW and she wasn't a direct witness for most of it and only knows whatever AW told her. Her only real direct involvement was opening the door to the caller at the beginning. There isn't really anyone else and no way of corroborating anything. It's very problematic as you can doubt any part of VWs testimony but where do you start and stop? And that's before you factor in the unreliability of memory and whether or not AW was straight with her. The lack of other witnesses makes it all very difficult. Clearly AW will have given her the gist of his initial conversation but the police aren't releasing that.

 

[Konstantin]

Well the thing is just about everything comes from VW and she wasn't a direct witness for most of it and only knows whatever AW told her. Her only real direct involvement was opening the door to the caller at the beginning. There isn't really anyone else and no way of corroborating anything. It's very problematic as you can doubt any part of VWs testimony but where do you start and stop? And that's before you factor in the unreliability of memory and whether or not AW was straight with her. The lack of other witnesses makes it all very difficult. Clearly AW will have given her the gist of his initial conversation but the police aren't releasing that.

If VW is lying she has been lying to the police and her sons consistently for years. She will have been questioned very, very thoroughly by professionals. Over and over again I would imagine.

I don't think she is lying but I agree with you about memory. It was a horrifying experience for her and eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable at the best of times.

We have no idea about the conversation she and AW had as it has not been released, it's pointless to speculate.

We have no idea how accurately or how in depth AW relayed the conversation to her, what he understood of it (e.g. if it was bonkers and incoherent, how did he parse that and relay it to her?).

 

[davidt]

If VW is lying she has been lying to the police and her sons consistently for years. She will have been questioned very, very thoroughly by professionals. Over and over again I would imagine.

I don't think she is lying but I agree with you about memory. It was a horrifying experience for her and eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable at the best of times.

We have no idea about the conversation she and AW had as it has not been released, it's pointless to speculate.

We have no idea how accurately or how in depth AW relayed the conversation to her, what he understood of it (e.g. if it was bonkers and incoherent, how did he parse that and relay it to her?).

Yep. AW was said to be bewildered or confused. He did spend some minutes in conversation with the caller initially so obviously they talked about something. Whether or not AW could make any sense of it is another matter. It's always struck me that at no time does it seem AW felt threatened.

 

[RichardKimble]

Yep. AW was said to be bewildered or confused. He did spend some minutes in conversation with the caller initially so obviously they talked about something. Whether or not AW could make any sense of it is another matter. It's always struck me that at no time does it seem AW felt threatened.

That's sounds as if the killer was going to kill no matter what, cold and calculated seems as if it was hitman, it might well be that it's known who it was but evidence remains elusive.

 

[CSIAngus]

If VW is lying she has been lying to the police and her sons consistently for years. She will have been questioned very, very thoroughly by professionals. Over and over again I would imagine.

I don't think she is lying but I agree with you about memory. It was a horrifying experience for her and eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable at the best of times.

We have no idea about the conversation she and AW had as it has not been released, it's pointless to speculate.

We have no idea how accurately or how in depth AW relayed the conversation to her, what he understood of it (e.g. if it was bonkers and incoherent, how did he parse that and relay it to her?).

I'm not sure anyone is saying VW is lying. Witnesses can give inaccurate information in good faith based on their own perception and experience of an event, and the way their minds process information and store memory.

It is pointless to speculate (though these threads would be short without that) as we don't know the full content of the witness statement. Only one or two published details from what must have been many hours of interviews at the time and subsequently over the years.

 

[Konstantin]

Yep. AW was said to be bewildered or confused. He did spend some minutes in conversation with the caller initially so obviously they talked about something. Whether or not AW could make any sense of it is another matter. It's always struck me that at no time does it seem AW felt threatened.

Yes, he mustn't have done because otherwise why go back down and talk to the guy again? You'd stay inside and even perhaps call the police if the strange man at the door was threatening.

It suggests again that the story the guy told AW didn't make too much sense.

 

[RichardKimble]

Yes, he mustn't have done because otherwise why go back down and talk to the guy again? You'd stay inside and even perhaps call the police if the strange man at the door was threatening.

It suggests again that the story the guy told AW didn't make too much sense.

Or it was making total sense and it turned, we'll never know.

 

[worth2]

New evidence links prime suspect to the gun murder of Nairn banker Alistair Wilson

The prime suspect in the 20-year unsolved murder of Nairn banker Alistair Wilson can be linked to a person whose name matches that on the envelope used to lure the victim to his death.

Mr Wilson, a dad-of-two, was shot on his doorstep in the Highland town on November 28, 2004, in a crime which shocked Scotland and has gone unsolved for two decades.

The assassin handed a small blue envelope with the name ‘Paul’ written on it to Mr Wilson’s wife, Veronica, and asked her to pass it to her husband.

New evidence links suspect to the gun murder of banker Alistair Wilson

The prime suspect in the 20-year unsolved murder of Nairn banker Alistair Wilson can be linked to a person whose name matches that on the envelope used to lure the victim to his death.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Apologies if I missed some discussion, but this article says the envelope was handed to VW to pass on to AW rather than handed to AW when he got to the door. Is this just shoddy journalism or is it an alternative account of the envelope/doorstep encounter?

 

[davidt]

Apologies if I missed some discussion, but this article says the envelope was handed to VW to pass on to AW rather than handed to AW when he got to the door. Is this just shoddy journalism or is it an alternative account of the envelope/doorstep encounter?

The Mail isn't exactly known for accuracy and honesty.

That aside I've always understood VWs only real involvement was answering the original call at the door and calling her husband. I can't see where the opportunity for her to have passed an envelope to her husband could arise. It also doesn't fit with the rest of the story. The caller is said to have asked to speak to AW and spent several minutes doing so. As far as I am aware the only thing the caller said to VW was to ask for AW.

 

[RichardKimble]

The Mail isn't exactly known for accuracy and honesty.

That aside I've always understood VWs only real involvement was answering the original call at the door and calling her husband. I can't see where the opportunity for her to have passed an envelope to her husband could arise. It also doesn't fit with the rest of the story. The caller is said to have asked to speak to AW and spent several minutes doing so. As far as I am aware the only thing the caller said to VW was to ask for AW.

Worth a reminder, article on page 1 of this thread.

A year on, banker's doorstep death a mystery

· Police use transcript of 999 call to try to prompt lead · Mistaken identity could be motive for the murder

www.theguardian.com