UK UK - Alistair Wilson, 30, murdered at home, Nairn, Scotland, 28 Nov 2004

[Markybug]

From the guardian article

“Detectives are all but certain Mr Wilson closed the door behind him”

Seems a strange point to make ?

 

[CSIAngus]

Worth a reminder, article on page 1 of this thread.

A year on, banker's doorstep death a mystery

· Police use transcript of 999 call to try to prompt lead · Mistaken identity could be motive for the murder

www.theguardian.com

Veronica: (screaming) My husband's been shot. Dad, get the kids (screaming). My husband's been shot. Get the kids. (screaming)

'Dad'? Was VW's father there too? Seems an odd thing to say if not. Did she get confused between phoning 999 and phoning her Dad?

 

[davidt]

Veronica: (screaming) My husband's been shot. Dad, get the kids (screaming). My husband's been shot. Get the kids. (screaming)

'Dad'? Was VW's father there too? Seems an odd thing to say if not. Did she get confused between phoning 999 and phoning her Dad?

I believe he was staying there at the time.

 

[Konstantin]

I believe he was staying there at the time.

Yes he was there.

 

[dotr]

rbbm.

The doorstep murder

Why did a regular family evening end in gunshots?

www.bbc.co.uk

''Veronica’s father Ronnie is staying in a flat at the top of the large, two-storey home. They all enjoy an evening meal together - just like any other Sunday.''
16 September 2024 By Rachel Smart

Alistair Wilson: A timeline of events of the unsolved ‘doorstep murder’

A timeline of events from the unsolved murder case from 2004 to today.

www.northern-scot.co.uk

''March 2022: Police Scotland issues an appeal for information about two men seen with a handgun on a beach near the town a month before the fatal shooting.
March 2022: Detectives investigating the murder travel to Nova Scotia, Canada as part of their inquiries.
April 2022: Police confirm they now believe the answer to Alistair’s murder lies within his personal life and is not connected to his employment with the Bank of Scotland.
They believe that the motive centres around Mr Wilson's objection to a decking area outside the neighbouring Havelock pub.
April 2022: A key witness in the murder of Nairn banker Alistair Wilson was on the scene within minutes, it has been claimed.
Former New Scotland Yard detective Peter Bleksley was speaking to the Sunday Mail newspaper when the claim was made about local publican Andy Burnett.
Mr Wilson had objected to a large decking area outside Mr Burnett's Havelock Hotel, opposite his family home in Crescent Road, shortly before he was shot dead.
November 2022: Channel 5 screens a documentary about the killing, named Murder On The Doorstep.
June 2023: An unnamed suspect in the case jailed for an unconnected case involving the supply of drugs.
November 2023: “Time is no barrier to justice” says the police team still investigating the unsolved murder.''

 

[crazychris]

Yes he was there.

He had the top floor of the house, sort of own flat then.

 

[lji]

*Photo attached below*

Just a thought about ‘Paul’ on the envelope. So we’ve never seen the actual front of the envelope itself, the police have not released an image of it for whatever reason.

Let’s think back to the pub opposite Alistair’s house planning to add an outdoor extension/decking area onto it, and now read the description of PDV1 in relation to planning permission:
“PDV1 refers to a specific category within "Permitted Development Rights" (PDR) in the UK planning system. PDRs are a type of planning permission granted by the government, allowing certain development work without needing separate permission from the local authority. PDV1 specifically relates to extensions to existing buildings, allowing for some alterations without needing planning permission.”

Alistair objected to the supposed extension at the pub opposite (Police probe planning dispute in Nairn doorstep murder.). Some people think that this had something to do with his murder.

So what if it wasn’t ‘Paul’ written on the envelope, but actually a quickly/untidy written ‘PDV1’?

I’ve attached a photo. First of all I asked my colleague at work to write ‘PDV1’ without thinking about what they were writing and I also asked them to do it quickly, like they were in a rush. I then asked them to write the same thing beneath it, but this time to just write it how they’d usually write and at a normal speed. The photo is the result of that. I found that when writing it in a rush they stopped short of the long line coming up from the ‘d’ and their ‘u’ is quite sharp, like a ‘v’, therefore looking extremely like ‘Paul’.

I could be way out there and overthinking it, but at the same time if ‘Pdv1’ was written on the envelope (which as above could easily look like Paul when written quickly), this could easily have been a message to Alistair before shooting him about his objections to the extension/decking at the pub opposite him.

 

[CSIAngus]

*Photo attached below*

Just a thought about ‘Paul’ on the envelope. So we’ve never seen the actual front of the envelope itself, the police have not released an image of it for whatever reason.

Let’s think back to the pub opposite Alistair’s house planning to add an outdoor extension/decking area onto it, and now read the description of PDV1 in relation to planning permission:
“PDV1 refers to a specific category within "Permitted Development Rights" (PDR) in the UK planning system. PDRs are a type of planning permission granted by the government, allowing certain development work without needing separate permission from the local authority. PDV1 specifically relates to extensions to existing buildings, allowing for some alterations without needing planning permission.”

Alistair objected to the supposed extension at the pub opposite (Police probe planning dispute in Nairn doorstep murder.). Some people think that this had something to do with his murder.

So what if it wasn’t ‘Paul’ written on the envelope, but actually a quickly/untidy written ‘PDV1’?

I’ve attached a photo. First of all I asked my colleague at work to write ‘PDV1’ without thinking about what they were writing and I also asked them to do it quickly, like they were in a rush. I then asked them to write the same thing beneath it, but this time to just write it how they’d usually write and at a normal speed. The photo is the result of that. I found that when writing it in a rush they stopped short of the long line coming up from the ‘d’ and their ‘u’ is quite sharp, like a ‘v’, therefore looking extremely like ‘Paul’.

I could be way out there and overthinking it, but at the same time if ‘Pdv1’ was written on the envelope (which as above could easily look like Paul when written quickly), this could easily have been a message to Alistair before shooting him about his objections to the extension/decking at the pub opposite him.

Interesting, though I can't find 'PDV1' cited in any Town & Country Planning (Scotland) legislation or local practice. Could you provide a source or link to your PDR quote?

As for the pub opposite, the issue there was the local authority required a retrospective planning application, which was granted despite AW letter of objection. I can't recall reading the content of AW's letter of objection. We only have VW's account that 'PAUL' was written on the envelope as the perpetrator took it with him.

 

[lji]

Interesting, though I can't find 'PDV1' cited in any Town & Country Planning (Scotland) legislation or local practice. Could you provide a source or link to your PDR quote?

As for the pub opposite, the issue there was the local authority required a retrospective planning application, which was granted despite AW letter of objection. I can't recall reading the content of AW's letter of objection. We only have VW's account that 'PAUL' was written on the envelope as the perpetrator took it with him.

If I’m being honest I googled ‘PDV1 Planning Permission’ after I remembered reading about it before on one of the many pages on here, and the description of it I quoted in my post was from the AI overview which may have only been applicable to England so will hold my hands up to that one if it doesn’t apply to Scotland.
Just remembered someone mentioning PDV1 before which got my mind thinking about the whole ‘Paul’ thing which then led me to the similarities in writing both words out

 

[davidt]

Interesting, though I can't find 'PDV1' cited in any Town & Country Planning (Scotland) legislation or local practice. Could you provide a source or link to your PDR quote?

As for the pub opposite, the issue there was the local authority required a retrospective planning application, which was granted despite AW letter of objection. I can't recall reading the content of AW's letter of objection. We only have VW's account that 'PAUL' was written on the envelope as the perpetrator took it with him.

I think I'm correct in saying the police have never really commented on whether anything else was written on the envelope.

 

[touch]

Just a thought about ‘Paul’ on the envelope. So we’ve never seen the actual front of the envelope itself, the police have not released an image of it for whatever reason.

I think I'm correct in saying the police have never really commented on whether anything else was written on the envelope.

The police don't have (and never did have) the envelope. We assume the killer took it with him but possibly it could have been dropped or hidden somewhere by AW. Either way, it was never recovered so there's no photos of it and it's possible the police don't really know if anything else was written on it.

 

[lji]

The police don't have (and never did have) the envelope. We assume the killer took it with him but possibly it could have been dropped or hidden somewhere by AW. Either way, it was never recovered so there's no photos of it and it's possible the police don't really know if anything else was written on it.

Thank you for correcting me, was my first time coming back to this case for a while and should’ve double checked the envelope situation

 

[davidt]

The police don't have (and never did have) the envelope. We assume the killer took it with him but possibly it could have been dropped or hidden somewhere by AW. Either way, it was never recovered so there's no photos of it and it's possible the police don't really know if anything else was written on it.

Yes, that's correct. The envelope disappeared after the shooting. Presumably taken by the shooter. Everything that is known about it comes via VW. The police have long been very circumspect in releasing details about it and have not commented whether they've been told by VW if anything else was written on it. On the doorstep murder podcast series it's made clear to the reporter by police that questions relating to the envelope would be restricted. Some have speculated there is additional information on it that is being held back. Very hard to know and the envelope itself was doubtless destroyed many years ago.

 

[wackyw]

I'm more of an occasional contributor to threads on here but somehow I recently meandered onto this one and got interested ... but I have a question ..... is there some aspect of discussion about the envelope that is forbidden for what it might imply ? I've read the short rules and what I could understand in the long rules but not seen anything specific.

 

[dotr]

It is as if the perp. purposely chose a day and time when the whole family is most likely to be at home. If so, why? imo.
Mona McAlinden 2017 rbbm.

The mysterious envelope and the death of Alistair Wilson

The baffling case of Alistair Wilson, who was shot dead as he prepared his children for bed 13 years ago.

www.bbc.com

''After a short discussion with the man, Alistair came back up to the room carrying a small blue envelope which the BBC has now learned was empty. The name 'Paul' was written on the front of the envelope.
Veronica told the BBC: "He was just a bit bewildered as to what the gentleman had said, because the envelope wasn't addressed to him.
"He was bewildered by the name, that it was not addressed to himself, and there was nothing in the envelope.
"And I said 'no, he definitely asked for you by name'."

An envelope matching the one handed to Alistair Wilson before he was killed

''He had spent that weekend with his wife Veronica, his children and family friends.''
''Veronica went up to the boys' room and told her husband. He expressed surprise that someone had come to the door at 7pm on a Sunday but went downstairs, leaving Veronica to take over the bedtime reading.''

 

[Professor Moriarty]

If the murderer was a hit man, or had otherwise decided to murder AW, surely he would have shot AW as soon as he came to the door. There would be no sense in the performance with the envelope, while he stood in full view of people in the Havelock Hotel opposite and anyone passing by.

The delay only makes sense if the murderer made some sort of offer, or demand, to AW. But, according to VW's account, AW did not understand what was being offered, or demanded. Nor can he have understood that he would be shot on returning to the front door, otherwise he would not have returned. So, it must have been an odd offer or demand, which was not understood and the threat behind it was not appreciated either.

Very odd.

 

[davidt]

If the murderer was a hit man, or had otherwise decided to murder AW, surely he would have shot AW as soon as he came to the door. There would be no sense in the performance with the envelope, while he stood in full view of people in the Havelock Hotel opposite and anyone passing by.

The delay only makes sense if the murderer made some sort of offer, or demand, to AW. But, according to VW's account, AW did not understand what was being offered, or demanded. Nor can he have understood that he would be shot on returning to the front door, otherwise he would not have returned. So, it must have been an odd offer or demand, which was not understood and the threat behind it was not appreciated either.

Very odd.

It's even odder when VWs account is that AW just made a spur of the moment decision to go an back to the front door. He wasn't expected to do so. Even odder that the caller hung around as there was no reason to expect AW to reappear. I suspect if this is ever solved we will find out there's a lot of of information missing from the official version of events to date.

 

[Professor Moriarty]

It's even odder when VWs account is that AW just made a spur of the moment decision to go an back to the front door. He wasn't expected to do so. Even odder that the caller hung around as there was no reason to expect AW to reappear. I suspect if this is ever solved we will find out there's a lot of of information missing from the official version of events to date.

Thanks. I agree. It's all very odd. It's hard to see how this case can be solved: no DNA, no finger print. You can't hold it against someone if they can't remember what they were doing and where they were one evening many years ago. If the police establish that someone had a fallout with AW, that would not mean that he murdered AW. That wouldn't be enough.

 

[ZeroAlpha]

Everything that we know is from VW's narrative.

 

[davidt]

Everything that we know is from VW's narrative.

Indeed, and in turn virtually everything VW knows comes from whatever AW told her. She didn't witness much first hand.