Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #3 *M. Bridger guilty*

[ScotsPaddy]

Ok,im now thinking he wouldnt have put her in the river,even in spate it really isnt that big or deep.He wouldnt put her in upstream for fear she was pushed down and got entangled near the town and he wouldnt have dumped her near the town for fear she didnt get washed away.
I feel at this moment shes out in the countryside,hes got a 4x4 and could easily do miles across the counryside just by going through farmers fields and rights of ways etc and never be seen from the road.
He was seen in his 4x4 crunching gears,thats could be the clutch on its way out and that could be the result of going up steep inclines or being stuck and revving the engine out.And again just guessing but if hes expeienced in off road driving i doubt that would happen but,if he was panicking or drunk then his driving would be terrible..

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Also,the search seemed to be centred on the river,now what if hes said she died as a result of an accident,he tells police he put her in the river(knowing he hasnt),and that way if the police cant find the body they cant prove deliberate murder and he can plead to a lesser charge(accidental death?).

And something was said in an earlier post about vehicle tracks down by the river,the police may have been able to identify and match the treads from his vehicle to the tracks.
Or alternitavely it could have been poachers netting the river?.River Dyfi is famous for its brown trout, salmon and sea trout.http://www.bestofwales.co.uk/fishing-the-River-Dyfi

Just a thought.

 

[opalsqueak63]

Ok,im now thinking he wouldnt have put her in the river,even in spate it really isnt that big or deep.He wouldnt put her in upstream for fear she was pushed down and got entangled near the town and he wouldnt have dumped her near the town for fear she didnt get washed away.
I feel at this moment shes out in the countryside,hes got a 4x4 and could easily do miles across the counryside just by going through farmers fields and rights of ways etc and never be seen from the road.
He was seen in his 4x4 crunching gears,thats could be the clutch on its way out and that could be the result of going up steep inclines or being stuck and revving the engine out.And again just guessing but if hes expeienced in off road driving i doubt that would happen but,if he was panicking or drunk then his driving would be terrible..

One of his hobbies was banger racing and it was reported that he was a competant mechanic.

 

[BritsKate]

I'm thinking accidental death is gonna be a tough sell. Here's a victim he shouldn't have had access to...even by admitting accidental death he is also forced to admit culpability in her abduction.

Going from abduction to murder, I believe, is an easier trip than believing the coincidence of an abduction and subsequent accidental death. JMO

 

[cluciano63]

I'm thinking accidental death is gonna be a tough sell. Here's a victim he shouldn't have had access to...even by admitting accidental death he is also forced to admit culpability in her abduction.

Going from abduction to murder, I believe, is an easier trip than believing the coincidence of an abduction and subsequent accidental death. JMO

In the US, any sort of death that results from kidnapping is considered murder, even a heart attack.

 

[Reannan]

Thanks to everyone for their links and responses regarding what could have been wrong with MB's vehicle that resulted in it being in the shop. At first, I thought perhaps he damaged it as he drove through a treacherous terrain as he drove down to the river to dispose of her body. I now think that the vehicle was already having problems - probably transmission problems, when he took her. It was 9:15 AM - the morning AFTER April went missing when the witness encountered MB in an agitated state and hearing the vehicle make a big "boom" sound. I bet you anything April was in the vehicle at that point. :banghead: He still has to dispose of the body, but where did he do it? How far was he willing to travel and risk breaking down with a body in his vehicle? Is there a place MUCH closer to the bridge he was observed as being agitated that would have been a good place to dispose of a body? He could have been walking latter with the black bag to dispose of other kinds of evidence - clothing, weapons, etc. I am confident LE knows when the vehicle was checked into the garage. The time between when he was seen driving eratically and having engine problems, and the check-in time in the garage is the time-frame that would let us know how far he traveled to dump the body. Just horrible all the way around!!!

 

[BritsKate]

In the US, any sort of death that results from kidnapping is considered murder, even a heart attack.

It could be here as well, I dunno. I'm better versed on the American version.
I tried googling but in all honesty these crimes are few and far between here and nearly non-existent in which COD can't be proven.

Hopefully a true Brit will know.

(There was a robbery near to me some months back. An OAP died due to a stroke and West Midlands Police launched a murder inquiry. No arrests have been made but I'm thinking it could well be the same here. Felony + Death = Murder.)

 

[cluciano63]

It could be here as well, I dunno. I'm better versed on the American version.
I tried googling but in all honesty these crimes are few and far between here and nearly non-existent in which COD can't be proven.

Hopefully a true Brit will know.

(There was a robbery near to me some months back. An OAP died due to a stroke and West Midlands Police launched a murder inquiry. No arrests have been made but I'm thinking it could well be the same here. Felony + Death = Murder.)

Somehow, I doubt that case will end up being a murder in the UK. JMO, but they seem very dainty toward criminals.

 

[wfgodot]

The three specific charges, as read out in court:

1) That between September 30, 2012 and October 3, 2012, at Machynclleth, he murdered April Sue-Lyn Jones contrary to common law.

2) That on October 1, 2012, at Machynlleth, without lawful authority or reasonable excuse, he took April Sue-Lyn Jones, a child under the age of 16, so as to keep her out of the lawful control of a person entitled to lawful control of the said child contrary to Sections 2 (1) (b) and 4 of the Child Abduction Act 1984.

3) That between September 30, 2012 and October 3, 2012 at Machynlleth, with intent to pervert the course of justice, did an act, namely the unlawful disposal and concealment of the body of April Sue-Lyn Jones, which had a tendency to pervert the course of public justice contrary to common law.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9594065/Mark-Bridger-The-charges-against-him.html

 

[opalsqueak63]

Somehow, I doubt that case will end up being a murder in the UK. JMO, but they seem very dainty toward criminals.

very dainty - yes indeed


Murder has to have the intent there - that the person intended to kill or to cause "grievous bodily harm", for a charge of murder to stick.

My view in the case of MB is that , in the light of what may be considerable evidence against their client, his defence may decide to go for "manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility", which if aspects of his case fit the criteria given for this lesser charge, may exempt him from a murder charge. The defence would really need to raise their grounds for this at trial and the burden is on the defence to build a case for it.

I think this may happen, but that is due to what I am guessing may have triggered this off - a flip-out as a result of a ghastly argument in his acquaintance. Can't say any more of that here because it is pure speculation on my part. It will all come out in the wash.

Poor April.

 

[cluciano63]

very dainty - yes indeed


Murder has to have the intent there - that the person intended to kill or to cause "grievous bodily harm", for a charge of murder to stick.

My view in the case of MB is that , in the light of what may be considerable evidence against their client, his defence may decide to go for "manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility", which if aspects of his case fit the criteria given for this lesser charge, may exempt him from a murder charge. The defence would really need to raise their grounds for this at trial and the burden is on the defence to build a case for it.

I think this may happen, but that is due to what I am guessing may have triggered this off - a flip-out as a result of a ghastly argument in his acquaintance. Can't say any more of that here because it is pure speculation on my part. It will all come out in the wash.

Poor April.

My relatives came from the UK to USA, so I am not denigrating the UK, but it has always seemed to me they went too far when they changed over from their colonial-style justice to the current system, as if in atonement for the sins of the past. I can't get over how delicately criminals are treated, even once convicted. And USA is far from perfect on that count, but when I read what inmates have access to Australia recently, due to Jill's murder, I literally almost vomited. Probably 1/ of working Americans do not have what the inmates have.

 

[wfgodot]

I don't think the word is "dainty"; I think the word is "humane."

As for treatment of those accused or those who are prisoners, one cannot believe everything one reads in the tabloid newpapers.

And I would never refer to anything about a people who withstood the hell of the Blitz and by doing so thus saved Western Civilization, as "dainty."

 

[KALI]

Are they now just looking for a body or did he confess?
Been gone all day. Sorry.

 

[cluciano63]

Are they now just looking for a body or did he confess?
Been gone all day. Sorry.

No confession; he was formally charged today, but said little.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think the word is "dainty"; I think the word is "humane."

As for treatment of those accused or those who are prisoners, one cannot believe everything one reads in the tabloid newpapers.

And I would never refer to anything about a people who withstood the hell of the Blitz and by doing so thus saved Western Civilization, as "dainty."

Treatment dainty, not the people. IMO
I read a description of a prison in AUS not on the tabloids, but in an article about prisons in AUS.
Sounded like a luxury resort.

 

[wfgodot]

Treatment dainty, not the people. IMO
I read a description of a prison in AUS not on the tabloids, but in an article about prisons in AUS.
Sounded like a luxury resort.

Those confiined for years in enclosed spaces are never in a luxury resort.

Careful now, or, since we are not in Australia but in Wales, I'll start raving about the rugged brilliance of the hero Owain Glyndŵr, who was crowned Prince of Wales in this self-same Machynlleth near the still-standing Parliament House, in 1404, lol.

 

[southernnana]

:waitasec: ... My Apologies.


The two Links below are concerning the ladies that informed LE of having seen a man walking down an embankment to the river. I had forgotten that the man was seen carrying a black plastic bag. Also, I am mistaken in that the Link did not state that the man was suspect Bridger, but rather, only stated "a man carrying a black plastic bag." My apologies for that error.

:dunno:
I am not certain if this Link has been posted previously ... interesting remark as it refers to the possibility of evidence discovery made by LE at the river. IMO.

"http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ested-man.html
Officers were understood to have begun searching the river after tyre marks were found on the bank at a spot where vehicles would not normally be parked. Mr Bridger has an ex-wife and a grown-up son who live on the same estate as April, as well as two ex-girlfriends living in Machynlleth."
<snipped> and BBM.
------------------------
As I recall, two local ladies provided a tip to LE regarding seeing suspect Bridger walking down an embankment leading to the river. I will find the Link and repost it.

Surely, he would not be foolish enough to leave tire marks on a riverbank from either of the two vehicles he drove, or else he did not have time to get rid of them, if possible.

WORLD RENOWNED FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST TO HELP INTERVIEW SUSPECT BRIDGER.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/a...eine-mccann-expert-drafted-in-91466-31970603/
Oct 04 2012


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/2...ene-of-black-bag-man-sighting-91466-31974005/
Oct 5 2012

Two women witnesses told police they spotted a man carrying a black bag down to the river below the hillside.

 

[opalsqueak63]

My relatives came from the UK to USA, so I am not denigrating the UK, but it has always seemed to me they went too far when they changed over from their colonial-style justice to the current system, as if in atonement for the sins of the past. I can't get over how delicately criminals are treated, even once convicted. And USA is far from perfect on that count, but when I read what inmates have access to Australia recently, due to Jill's murder, I literally almost vomited. Probably 1/ of working Americans do not have what the inmates have.

I think many people in Britain think the whole system is too soft. What is the purpose of prison? Deterrant, punishment, rehabilitation? I have worked in prisons and to me, our prison system fails on all counts. But that's another story.

In our current system, the most radical change in recent years was PACE in 1984, Police and Criminal Evidence Act, which police have to follow to the letter. It took many powers away from the police. Too many miscarriages of justice had taken place and the idea was "the separation of powers" idea, like you have in your US Government structure, to stop too much power being invested in one small sector of the state apparatus.

However, PACE took away the police's ability to use the "Copper's nose" or gut, to go on fishing exercises, etc, to get to the bottom of things. They can't do that now. Just my opinion.

 

[opalsqueak63]

I don't think the word is "dainty"; I think the word is "humane."

As for treatment of those accused or those who are prisoners, one cannot believe everything one reads in the tabloid newpapers.

And I would never refer to anything about a people who withstood the hell of the Blitz and by doing so thus saved Western Civilization, as "dainty."

That is a really cool post - thanks from a Brit

 

[wfgodot]

I find it interesting that, depending upon the news source, one finds Mark Bridger's name either modified by the term "former abattoir worker," or "former lifeguard."

There is circumstantial irony in each.