Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #4 *M. Bridger guilty*

[veggiefan]

No, 10 minutes later. 18.24 I think it was supposed to be.

Sunset in Machynlleth on the 1st October was 18.52, so by your reckoning it would not have been dark until 19.17 (probably a minute or so later, as the period of dusk shortens as the days get shorter).

 

[PADDYWHACK]

25 mins then? was 6.14 the official sunset time for you?

18.52 was the official sunset for machynlleth on the 1st so it wouldnt have been dark till well gone 7 pm

http://uk.weather.com/climate/sunRiseSunSet-Machynlleth-SY20

That would mean light was beginning to dim 10 to 15 minutes before? I should observe sunsets more often. Its amazing what we can take for granted.

 

[PADDYWHACK]

No, sunset in Machynlleth on the 1st October was 18.52.

I meant my sunset today.

 

[George Gently]

But all this shows is that a silver grey car will still look silver grey in orange street light, although a darker shade.

 

[Inge Jones]

But all this shows is that a silver grey car will still look silver grey in orange street light, although a darker shade.

Have we had anyone with a dark blue car try this to see if it turns light grey in streetlight?

 

[Clutchbag]

Have we had anyone with a dark blue car try this to see if it turns light grey in streetlight?

Paddy was going to check this as his car is dark blue IIRC

Eta see post 549, car didnt seem lighter but darker

 

[Rutland Girl]

This is sad

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/276938/Mob-targets-son-of-April-suspect-Mark-Bridger

Agree clutchbag - this is shocking behaviour from a so called close community, they should be ashamed of themselves.

Bad dad doesn't mean bad lad. Good luck Scott.

 

[Sarah]

I'm a bit late checking in because I've been cooking dinner, but I've carried out the same sunset observations as Paddy this evening (Good idea BTW)

Now clearly this isn't completely scientific because cloud cover would vary but I think it gives a reasonable representation.

Official sunset here 18:21 and it had clouded over a bit from earlier.

18:21 (sunset) still light out and good visibility
18:31 (sunset + 10 minutes) starting to get dim, but I'd still classify it as light and no street lights on
18:41 (sunset + 20 minutes) Light fading and street lights on but visibility still good enough to see to the end of the garden and determine shapes and colours. Although orange street lamps are lit there's enough ambient light that the orange lighting isn't interfering with colour perception. I'd classify this as dusk
18:51 (sunset + 30 minutes) Still some light in the sky visible between the clouds but definite reduced visibility outdoors. Orange street lamps are starting to skew red coloured vehicles in the street. I would classify it as dark at this point in time

Sunset in Machynlleth on the 1st October was 18.52, so by your reckoning it would not have been dark until 19.17 (probably a minute or so later, as the period of dusk shortens as the days get shorter).

Sorry Paddy, got a little confused with your timings and need to re-read them but based on my observations and (I think) yours I'd draw the same conclusion as veggiefan. I reckon that at 19:00 in Machynlleth (8 minutes after official sunset) it would not have been dark although with heavy cloud cover the light would be starting to fade.

EDIT : Actually just read Paddy's posts again and I think I misinterpreted.
Did you say that it started to get dark with you 10 minutes before official sunset?

Out of interest what was the weather doing with you and were you judging how dark it was from indoors or outdoors?
I did notice it getting a little darker indoors in the approach to sunset, but I actually stood outside on the deck to observe what light levels were outdoors.

 

[Dirk Gently]

This car - I've come at it from a slightly different angle. Definitely RH drive, you can see the steering wheel quite clearly.

Hang on a minute. One of the witnesses claims to have noticed the vehicle supposedly used in the abduction specifically because he found it odd that it was parked by the garages. I believe the person stated that he noticed it precisely because cars do not usually park there. Thinking about it (and given that you've presented us with a picture that clearly shows cars parked there) this is a very unusual claim to make. Why would the witness have found it odd to see a car parked by the garages? It seems to me that this is exactly what you'd expect to find?

 

[PADDYWHACK]

Is anyone else here alarmed by this image?

The small circle is April's house, the large circle the garages where she was last seen.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/03/article-2211516-154F971E000005DC-345_634x422.jpg

 

[PADDYWHACK]

Hang on a minute. One of the witnesses claims to have noticed the vehicle supposedly used in the abduction specifically because he found it odd that it was parked by the garages. I believe the person stated that he noticed it precisely because cars do not usually park there. Thinking about it (and given that you've presented us with a picture that clearly shows cars parked there) this is a very unusual claim to make. Why would the witness have found it odd to see a car parked by the garages? It seems to me that this is exactly what you'd expect to find?

I agree and if you google map them there are plenty of cars parked outside the garages.

 

[Clutchbag]

Is anyone else here alarmed by this image?

The small circle is April's house, the large circle the garages where she was last seen.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/03/article-2211516-154F971E000005DC-345_634x422.jpg

In what way? You mean the distance? Someone said it was 250 feet which is, what, around 100 yards max? Kids love to go down alleys, garages, in bushes, explore. My only concern would be the bottom end of the garages opening up to a main road, traffic danger

Eta it seems alot more than 100 yards to me but photos can be deceptive

Do you mean a five yr old shouldnt be left playing so far away? Without adult supervision?

 

[Clutchbag]

Hang on a minute. One of the witnesses claims to have noticed the vehicle supposedly used in the abduction specifically because he found it odd that it was parked by the garages. I believe the person stated that he noticed it precisely because cars do not usually park there. Thinking about it (and given that you've presented us with a picture that clearly shows cars parked there) this is a very unusual claim to make. Why would the witness have found it odd to see a car parked by the garages? It seems to me that this is exactly what you'd expect to find?

This didnt escape my notice either and is more reason for me to think the story was embroidered unless the google images are all from years back and the rules were changed

 

[jigzy]

Is anyone else here alarmed by this image?

The small circle is April's house, the large circle the garages where she was last seen.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/03/article-2211516-154F971E000005DC-345_634x422.jpg

Yes, from the very beginning

 

[JerricaBenton]

Is anyone else here alarmed by this image?

The small circle is April's house, the large circle the garages where she was last seen.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/03/article-2211516-154F971E000005DC-345_634x422.jpg

No, what am I missing?

 

[Rutland Girl]

Way back at the start of this case, someone managed to zoom into that photo of the landrover parked at the garages and I believe they got a partial plate by going in at a sideways angle.

It was concluded it is parked directly behind the Jones's property.

Concluded?
Looking at the local area, I can't see a garage area 'directly behind 'the Jones' house.

 

[Cherwell]

Is anyone else here alarmed by this image?

The small circle is April's house, the large circle the garages where she was last seen.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/10/03/article-2211516-154F971E000005DC-345_634x422.jpg

But are we absolutely sure that those are the garages in question? There are groups of garages all over the estate, including one block right by April's house (if they got that right). There are two lots of garages visible within the large circle, which makes me think that the media weren't sure anyway.

Hang on a minute. One of the witnesses claims to have noticed the vehicle supposedly used in the abduction specifically because he found it odd that it was parked by the garages. I believe the person stated that he noticed it precisely because cars do not usually park there. Thinking about it (and given that you've presented us with a picture that clearly shows cars parked there) this is a very unusual claim to make. Why would the witness have found it odd to see a car parked by the garages? It seems to me that this is exactly what you'd expect to find?

Yes, it's odd, unless he meant something about the way this specific car was parked, blocking the entrance for instance (as MB is said to have done at the school).

BTW I wouldn't sneer about the "treat". We're not talking about a day at the seaside or a trip to the panto, sure, but playing out or staying up a bit later means a lot to a small child in that moment of time. And they may be "grotty garages" to us, but kids are very imaginative in play, and a garage could be anything from a palace to a railway station in their game.

 

[Inge Jones]

It's a bit borderline whether playing at that distance is inappropriate for a 5yr old. It probably depends partly on how sheltered they have been up till then. Also bear in mind part of a child's safety depends on being well integrated with their peer group (so they don't get bullied to death and have friends to watch out for them). If it was normal for children in that area to have this freedom it was probably just as well for April to be allowed to fit in.

 

[Dirk Gently]

Just noticed something about MB's Land Rover and I'm not sure whether this has been pointed out before? When comparing the image of MB's vehicle with a similar Series 1 Discovery is seems to me that MB's vehicle is missing the prominent instrument panel bulge and steering wheel. There also seems to be something peculiar about the bonnet. They do have odd looking bonnets but on MB's vehicle the bulge seems much more pronounced than that of any other Series 1 I've seen. If you look closely at the lip of the bonnet (where it meets the grille) then there's also a very noticeable colour mismatch. It almost looks as if a second bonnet has been plonked on top of the original?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

MB's vehicle

Comparison vehicle

 

[Cherwell]

It's a bit borderline whether playing at that distance is inappropriate for a 5yr old. It probably depends partly on how sheltered they have been up till then. Also bear in mind part of a child's safety depends on being well integrated with their peer group (so they don't get bullied to death and have friends to watch out for them). If it was normal for children in that area to have this freedom it was probably just as well for April to be allowed to fit in.

Yes, and remember she wasn't on her own at any point. The further she was from her house, the nearer she was to one of the friends' houses, and vice versa.