Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #5 *M. Bridger guilty*

[Clutchbag]

A good amount of money, but I was thinking along different lines - not that family would be asked for the ransom.

Who then

 

[Adorabella]

When you both decide which facts you want to base your opinion on, maybe you can let us know.

BBM - huh?

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear in my many posts on all the threads of this case: there are very few actual facts to choose from and a myriad of opinions and suppositions, none of which point to MB's guilt...yet, or at all. My opinion, therefore, is innocent until proven guilty. Not sure how to say that any clearer.

 

[Clutchbag]

In the UK, and for some years now, the decision to charge has been the responsibility of the Crown Prosecution Service, not the police.

The police put their evidence to the CPS and it is the CPS that decides whether or not the evidence is likely to stand up in court. In this case, they have decided it is.

Thanks for that, you are right, but the reasons remain the same

 

[veggiefan]

Isn't this the exact problem MB faces (and therefore justice faces), when someone makes a comment (and we have no idea of their agenda, nor can it currently be refuted or explained) and suddenly it becomes fact or at least it has a bearing on how people see someone.

No. When MB faces justice, the court process will ensure that only facts are considered - not comments, opinions, or suspicions.

The judge will warn jurors not to attempt to research the case on the Internet but, because there is a danger that some will, it behoves us all to be very careful in expressing opinions about the accused.

I do think, despite warnings from the mods, that today we have strayed too far into discussing the accused.

 

[Clutchbag]

Dole is still a form of pension, if receiving the unemployment benefit.

There are very fit 70 year olds, and others in their 40's who are stuffed.

The context of the discussion was about a woman in her forties dating a pensioner, NOTHING to do with working, the dole or anything like that, in the context and also without of the convo MB is decidedly NOT a pensioner in any way shape or form LOL

hes fit does outdoor sports women fancy him his kids love him he visits them, neighbours say good things about him, is not stuffed from where im sitting except in that hes charged with a murder he may not have committed

 

[Clutchbag]

BBM - huh?

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear in my many posts on all the threads of this case: there are very few actual facts to choose from and a myriad of opinions and suppositions, none of which point to MB's guilt...yet, or at all. My opinion, therefore, is innocent until proven guilty. Not sure how to say that any clearer.

and that is the crux of the matter as it stands today

 

[LegallyBrunette]

No. When MB faces justice, the court process will ensure that only facts are considered - not comments, opinions, or suspicions.

The judge will warn jurors not to attempt to research the case on the Internet but, because there is a danger that some will, it behoves us all to be very careful in expressing opinions about the accused.

I do think, despite warnings from the mods, that today we have strayed too far into discussing the accused.

Nothing has been discussed in here that isn't in MSM.
The presiding judge is highly experienced High Court judge.
The dangers to justice are feral FB pages and blogs calling for everything from hanging, burying alive with a snorkel, and worse.

 

[PADDYWHACK]

He apparently arrived in Wales around '89 claiming to be ex-Army (invalided out due to bad back). The bad back may have been true.

Hear say, but what if he was in the TA?

 

[Clio]

Yup, very true...and even now according to various posts on our fave social networking site, some STILL don't believe he has done anything. None of his ex's or friends have said a bad thing about him!!
I understand they have probably been warned not to speak but that doesn't usually stop some!
You would think, they'd be shouting from the roof tops! None of it makes any sense.

In the case of close friends etc that could be for a number of reasons. They might be of the opinion that he couldn't possibly be responsible. Or they might have grave fears that he could be responsible and don't want to say anything that might be a cause for him "getting off". Or possibly, they are still holding out hope that this is all a "big mistake" and she is alive somewhere and therefore there is nobody to blame for her death.

 

[PADDYWHACK]

A good amount of money, but I was thinking along different lines - not that family would be asked for the ransom.

Ok, let us take your line that April has been kidnapped and that you think it was for money.

Motive = Money

Opportunity = Her mother allowed her to play out late (This would imply Coral Jones was in on it) she was the only one able to provide opportunity.

Alibi = Bridger clearly doesn't have one, or he would not be in prison awaiting trial.

If you were innocent, but devious, smart and skint, you would keep quiet and emerge at the end with a hefty payout for wrongful imprisonment etc

 

[nursebeeme]

BBM - huh?

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear in my many posts on all the threads of this case: there are very few actual facts to choose from and a myriad of opinions and suppositions, none of which point to MB's guilt...yet, or at all. My opinion, therefore, is innocent until proven guilty. Not sure how to say that any clearer.

he has been charged with the murder and abduction of a five year old child and the police have the legal burden to bring those charges. Even if he is found not guilty that is not the same as being innocent.

 

[Clutchbag]

Who then

bump for LB case u missed it, who would MB ask for a ransom off

 

[Clutchbag]

he has been charged with the murder and abduction of a five year old child and the police have the legal burden to bring those charges. Even if he is found not guilty that is not the same as being innocent.

likewise being charged or convictedwith murder doesnt make anyone really as opposed to legally guilty automatically

 

[Insp.Dots]

I think this is getting a bit to personal. We are ALL very different people trying to put across our own opinions. As in a Jury, we will/would even with rock solid evidence have differing views on what has happened. It IS ok to disagree....I think the problem is we are ALL frustrated as we just don't know what has happened, very little makes any sense and I think we have to accept we won't know ANYTHING for sure about MB or people involved until the Trial begins!
Yes, there have been mis-carriages of justice, wrong convictions, corruption but we surely have to believe or at least go towards this trial in the belief that Justice WILL in fact be done...IF in some's eye's it's not then that will be a whole new thread!!!

As my lovable 16yr old rogue Son would say....Chillax people

 

[wfgodot]

Even if he is found not guilty that is not the same as being innocent.

The so-called "Scottish verdict" has been used as a means of taking this into account: not proven (Wiki)

 

[nursebeeme]

likewise being charged or convictedwith murder doesnt make anyone really as opposed to legallu guilty automatically

clutchbag,
my point is that law enforcement ARRESTED this guy. he is CHARGED. That means they have goods on this guy. They have evidence he murdered a five year old child or he would not be charged with that crime.

The legal machinations have yet to happen. And we will not see the evidence until that happens. Until then and until otherwise noted by law enforcement, they have the suspect in custody.

Heck the guy hasn't even entered a plea yet has he? Once his defense attorney gets the discovery this guy may well decide to plead out.

(depending on how your legal system works... seen it happen plenty of times in the US)

 

[Insp.Dots]

Ok, let us take your line that April has been kidnapped and that you think it was for money.

Motive = Money

Opportunity = Her mother allowed her to play out late (This would imply Coral Jones was in on it) she was the only one able to provide opportunity.

Alibi = Bridger clearly doesn't have one, or he would not be in prison awaiting trial.

If you were innocent, but devious, smart and skint, you would keep quiet and emerge at the end with a hefty payout for wrongful imprisonment etc

I

think a few people here believe he didn't act alone, if indeed he did do anything, but the strongest idea being put forward is kidnapping for financial gain. That takes us back to what I said earlier, motive, opportunity, and alibi.

I thought from the above Kidnapping was your theory? sorry if I've read into this wrongly.:banghead:

 

[PADDYWHACK]

I think this is getting a bit to personal. We are ALL very different people trying to put across our own opinions. As in a Jury, we will/would even with rock solid evidence have differing views on what has happened. It IS ok to disagree....I think the problem is we are ALL frustrated as we just don't know what has happened, very little makes any sense and I think we have to accept we won't know ANYTHING for sure about MB or people involved until the Trial begins!
Yes, there have been mis-carriages of justice, wrong convictions, corruption but we surely have to believe or at least go towards this trial in the belief that Justice WILL in fact be done...IF in some's eye's it's not then that will be a whole new thread!!!

As my lovable 16yr old rogue Son would say....Chillax people

I think people are just trying to make sense of things and sadly the press reporting cannot be relied upon.

 

[greenpalm]

Call me naive, but I'd like to think that if Bridger is guilty he would have the decency to tell where April is. He has several children of his own and visited them regularly, was good enough for many women to sleep with and have long relationships with. He couldn't have been all that bad, or the other women would have warned each other.

I'm kind of thinking similarly. I just can't understand what happened. If he did it, why? If it was an accident of some kind - why won't he tell where she is. It's just baffling. It doesn't fit what I think of as "typical."

It really is a lot like Breanne Rodriguez's case - but that guy, Shawn Morgan, once he realized he was caught, told them where to find her body. And in her case we learned that he'd sent bomb threats to a former place of employment and had at least one other past incident which would seem to indicate that he was a bit off his rocker.

I follow a lot of these cases and they follow predictable patterns. Sometimes I lose interest in them very quickly because the motive and reasoning are not mysterious. Still sad and horrible, of course.

As an example, the typical step parent (usually step father, but not always) kills step-child in a fit-of-rage type case happens every week it seems. (Kyron Horman - was an usual case because it appears to have been calculated and extensively premeditated - and yes I know his step mother is still only the alleged killer)

Another example of a "type" of child related case would be the creepy uncle, "pal" or step father who molests a child for years and somehow shames the child to keep it all quiet. (Jerry Sandusky, all the priests)

Parents kill their own children far more often than strangers do - and it's even quite common for the parents to then try to point the finger at someone else (an invented stranger) to cover it up. Open cases that IMHO fit this type are: Jhessye Shockley, Aliyah Lundsford, Ayla Reynolds, Lisa Irwin (Now it's possible that one or more of those will turn out to actually be stranger abductions, but I'm not betting on it. We can talk about that on those threads - not here, I'm just trying to make a point about Mark Bridger)

I just can't make this case fit that's why I keep considering alternate theories:

1. They have the wrong guy.
2. He has lost his mind, and gone round the bend.
3. It was some kind of "accident" and he tried to cover it up: For example, he was drunk; it was a botched kidnapping (but why, what was he after?); he hit her with the car (But why not tell us where she is?); he took her for a short ride and then let her out to walk and she never made it home… I dunno I'm just guessing - still trying to make those ideas fit what we know, and they don't fit either - I know that, but my head keeps taking them out for a spin anyway because him simply plucking her off the street in front of neighbor children and murdering her doesn't fit either. No need to refute any of that - it's rhetorical and I can't support any of it.


I just can't make sense of it. I do hope that we are able to learn more illuminating information after the trial.

For those of you who theorize that someone else may be involved - without naming names, what sort of person would conspire to kill a 5 year old?

 

[Adorabella]

he has been charged with the murder and abduction of a five year old child and the police have the legal burden to bring those charges. Even if he is found not guilty that is not the same as being innocent.

In the UK under the Human Rights Act passed in 1998, one is innocent until proven guilty, as far as I am aware.

"The right to a fair trial and no punishment without law - you are innocent until proven guilty. If accused of a crime, you have the right to hear the evidence against you, in a court of law."

http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/human-rights/the-human-rights-act/index.php