Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #5 *M. Bridger guilty*

[greenpalm]

I'd like a little clarification from the mods about this thread.

We aren't permitted to discuss the guilt or innocence of the arrested accused because April hasn't been found? Is this a new policy or am I perhaps not fully understanding what you are saying?

Consider Kyron Horman's case. We sleuthed and discussed Terri Horman up down left right and six ways from Sunday, without Kyron ever having been found. In that case, she was never even arrested, much less charged with any crime. She was merely named as a person of interest. Yet we looked up her body building photos, found her "Red Squirrel" Internet ID, etc. etc. ad neaseum. She is still being thoroughly discussed on those threads, while Kyron has been missing a year and a half and still not found.

What am I not getting here?

I appreciate that we should be thinking of April, but contemplating the behaviors and impressions of MB - who has been charged with murder - seems the most effective way of figuring out where he might have put her.

So, is this case different?

I'm alerting the mods to this post myself. I wanted to ask it publicly so that we could all benefit from the answer, because I am confused, I'd guess others are too.

Thanks very much mods for all you do here to make Websleuths the most useful crime investigation site.

 

[Salem]

Hi Greenpalm,

The laws in the UK are different from those in the states. In the UK it is considered contempt of court to discuss any criminal history of the accused, print his name or show his picture. UK media is very limited in what they can say about the accused. That's why we won't know what the evidence against him is, until he goes to trial.

Normally, he would be very sleuthable. But we try to respect the laws of other countries because we want justice to take place and we don't want to add anything to an argument that would allow justice to be denied.

Thanks for asking. If you have further questions, please pm a Mod and one of us will be happey to answer.

Salem

 

[veggiefan]

What if he does tell where the body is? Would he get an earlier chance for parole?

Concealment of the body is an "aggravating factor" that would lead a judge to increase the period before which parole could be considered.

However, abduction and murder of a child is regarded as the most serious of type of offence and can attract a "whole life order" if there are no mitigating circumstances. Such orders are relatively rare (about two cases a year on average), but they mean what they say - locked-up for life with no chance of parole.

Would he get an advantage if he'd now tell them where it is?

I doubt it.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

No, I just know that if my sons uncle picked him up, I wouldn't be alarmed until about 4, or 5 hours had passed.

If my little girl's 'uncle' (MB is uncle by 'marriage' to April's half siblings) picked her up without permission at 7pm at night and didn't immediately phone and say, hey saw her playing and she wanted an icecream or whatever, we'll be back soon' I would be VERY worried.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

I'd like a little clarification from the mods about this thread.

We aren't permitted to discuss the guilt or innocence of the arrested accused because April hasn't been found? Is this a new policy or am I perhaps not fully understanding what you are saying?

Consider Kyron Horman's case. We sleuthed and discussed Terri Horman up down left right and six ways from Sunday, without Kyron ever having been found. In that case, she was never even arrested, much less charged with any crime. She was merely named as a person of interest. Yet we looked up her body building photos, found her "Red Squirrel" Internet ID, etc. etc. ad neaseum. She is still being thoroughly discussed on those threads, while Kyron has been missing a year and a half and still not found.

What am I not getting here?

I appreciate that we should be thinking of April, but contemplating the behaviors and impressions of MB - who has been charged with murder - seems the most effective way of figuring out where he might have put her.

So, is this case different?

I'm alerting the mods to this post myself. I wanted to ask it publicly so that we could all benefit from the answer, because I am confused, I'd guess others are too.

Thanks very much mods for all you do here to make Websleuths the most useful crime investigation site.

In the case you quote above, the person of suspicion had not been charged, in this case a man HAS been charged, once charged the person the matter is 'sub judice' - under justice or before the courts. It is then considered contempt of court to discuss any matter which could affect a fair trial.

'Sub judice contempt is the common law offence of publishing material which has a tendency to interfere with the administration of justice while proceedings are sub judice; that is, ‘under a judge’. The rationale for the offence is to avoid a ‘trial by media’ by prohibiting the publication of material which might prejudge issues at stake in particular proceedings, or which might influence or place pressure on persons involved in the proceedings, including jurors, witnesses or potential witnesses, and parties to the proceedings. In deciding whether material is prejudicial, the court will attempt to balance the public interest in free speech with the public interest in ensuring a fair trial.
Generally speaking, in criminal proceedings the sub judice period begins at the time of arrest or charge, whichever occurs first. It also possible that proceedings may be regarded as pending once a summons or warrant for arrest has been issued, an information or complaint has been laid, notice has been given of an intention to prefer a presentment, or extradition proceedings have been commenced.

Criminal proceedings are completed when charges are withdrawn or the accused is acquitted or sentenced, or the time for lodging an appeal has passed, or all possible appeals have been heard. Hence, proceedings will still be sub judice following a hung jury, between verdict or a guilty plea and sentencing, between sentence and the time for lodging notice of an appeal, during any appeal, and before or during any retrial ordered on appeal.'
http://www.vgso.vic.gov.au/node/333

 

[Elainera]

the local wildlife would've made short work of disposing of her, had she been dumped somewhere out in the countryside.

What if he buried her? He certainly is fit enough to dig a grave. Would that prevent wildlife getting to her?

 

[Elainera]

contemplating the behaviors and impressions of MB - who has been charged with murder - seems the most effective way of figuring out where he might have put her.

That's what I've been saying too in the previous thread. Nobody seemed to have picked much on it.

 

[Elainera]

In the UK it is considered contempt of court to discuss any criminal history of the accused, print his name or show his picture.

But the media have been doing just that even after his arrest and charges?

 

[LegallyBrunette]

But the media have been doing just that even after his arrest and charges?

Police released it, so in this case, not contempt. Only contempt if name had been suppressed and identity was in issue.

 

[Crazy Mama]

Insp.Dots:

And Below yet another version by the press!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...s-evening.html

April’s parents, Coral and Paul, were reportedly still at the parents’ evening when April, who was playing outside on her bicycle, disappeared.


.

And this makes me so very unsure of the LE's work. They left the bike (I think it was hers) and yet we keep being reminded that she was playing on it when she vanished. I can only assume that they have such strong evidence that they did not need to run forensics on the bike. Maybe they found her skin under his nails?

 

[Dr. Know?]

One of the owners I believe is a lawyer, I'm sure they can set the direction towards discussion correctly. jmo

 

[Elainera]

Maybe they found her skin under his nails?

There must be more. In its own it would not automatically lead them to believe she is dead.

 

[UKgirl]

There must be more. In its own it would not automatically lead them to believe she is dead.

The charge from abduction to murder came quite quickly after the house and florensics on the LR was searched and completed. I believe they found enough evidence for a murder charge from these.

 

[UKgirl]

And this makes me so very unsure of the LE's work. They left the bike (I think it was hers) and yet we keep being reminded that she was playing on it when she vanished. I can only assume that they have such strong evidence that they did not need to run forensics on the bike. Maybe they found her skin under his nails?

I dont think they would have found anything. April was not snatched from her bike, she quite willlingly put it down to climb into the drivers seat of the LR.

 

[Crazy Mama]

I dont think they would have found anything. April was not snatched from her bike, she quite willlingly put it down to climb into the drivers seat of the LR.

who says that she did? and who says that it was the LR?

 

[Insp.Dots]

who says that she did? and who says that it was the LR?

In fairness most reports did say she was taken whilst playing on her bike. But I agree, the Police announced she got in the vehicle willingly so the bike was probably not needed due to that fact, though we don't know for sure what forensics they have and won't until the case comes to trial.

 

[Clutchbag]

Can anyone please confirm that either the child witness or AJs mother named MB to police as this is being bandied about as fact and I have not read it anywhere. Likewise that the child ever mentioned a land rover.

 

[Clio]

I was wondering if MB ever drove another vehicle in connection with his work.

Early on there were reports that he had two vehicles but it's not a direct quote.

Neighbours said ...... He had two vehicles, one of which was a left-hand drive Land Rover Discovery made in Spain.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...dger-on-night-five-year-old-went-missing.html

From what I have been able to piece together from press reports, he worked at the Wynnstay Hotel in 1989 where he met JW. He worked as a lifeguard at the leisure centre in Mach in 1990 for 9 months. Then he worked as a mechanic and as a sub-contractor for Mid and West Wales Welding but was sacked 5 years ago following a dispute. More recently he did shift work at a local abattoir. I think he last worked as an odd job man at the Plas Llwyngwern hotel which is between Ceinws and Mach, just over a mile from his cottage.

Officers were also searching a guesthouse half a mile away where Bridger had been working recently as a labourer and odd-job man. The Plas Llwyngwern hotel — surrounded by four acres of grounds — is being renovated and is closed to the public

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ars-grow-for-the-sick-girl.html#ixzz29RXYqL6C

 

[Insp.Dots]

I've just found this, I think we were trying to work out this on the timeline a while back so hopefully this will help.

Mr Haynes, who has helped with the search efforts during the past eight days, said many of his staff were still struggling to come to terms with the events.

“April used the centre, she was a member of the centre, she came in for swimming lessons the night she was taken,” he said.

“She was here having lessons at about 5pm so it was only two hours later that it happened.”

He added: “A lot of staff live on the estate so not only are they dealing with it when they come to work but they’re dealing with it at home as well.”

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...ere-has-simply-got-to-be-hope-91466-32000982/

 

[Elainera]

Can anyone please confirm that either the child witness or AJs mother named MB to police as this is being bandied about as fact and I have not read it anywhere. Likewise that the child ever mentioned a land rover.

I have never read it anywhere. This was all our assumptions because he was a POI almost immediately.