Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #6 *M. Bridger guilty*

[bijoux]

That's quite a subjective interpretation of what he might have been doing.

The way he was dressed is normal for the area.

Apologies, perhaps a mod can snip my comment.

*
In reference to the youtube link frommer posted:

The guy in the red jacket at 4:02 says a pair of shoes were found, and that being a pair made it quite unusual.

I assume if those shoes had been April's, LE would have said so?

However it prompted me to verify what LE said AJ was wearing at the time of her abduction, but all I could find was this:
"Police said she was wearing her white primary school T- shirt, a purple padded coat with fur collar and black trousers."

But there was no mention in that article regarding the type of shoes or boots she was wearing. I wonder if it was stated elsewhere, though I've been unable to find it.

The Telegraph

 

[TulipaNoir]

IMHO, it was these first reports on the BBC (possibly only on BBC Wales?) of the 'left hand drive' that made him make his move with the LRD at approx 9.15am.

That might explain him crunching his gears (nerves? rushed? impatient?). Still takes some guts (or panic?) to take it to a repair garage, as if LE would not find it.

 

[jigzy]

That might explain him crunching his gears (nerves? rushed? impatient?). Still takes some guts (or panic?) to take it to a repair garage, as if LE would not find it.

But would deflect attention away from possibly more damning evidence in Ceinws (where the LE didn't seem to know he lived or else they would have been there and waited for him before 9.15 when he was seen there).

Also, we don't really know how the vehicle got to the repair shop - it might have broken down where the witness saw him by the bridge leading from Ceinws onto the A487 and been taken away on a low loader that was called. Trojan horse kind of thing - even passing those searching for the child on the way possibly. At 9.15am it had only recently been released by the Media that a left hand drive was a possibility. On a low loader who would notice left or right hand drive? Nobody I guess since no driver would be sitting inside.
We just don't know yet.

 

[marlywings]

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[bijoux]

Not sure if the Daily Record and Sunday Mail is a dodgy red top or not, but an 0ct 4th article states:

"Owen Kirkham, 80, lives in a house overlooking the farm. He said:

“Bridger moved in a couple of weeks ago. When he first came I saw him there and there was a woman and kids.''

So the idea that no one knew where MB lived may be false.

Daily Record and Sunday Mail

 

[imamaze]

Rumors are not allowed. If you are stating something as fact then please provide a link. If a link is not allowed then its not discussable. If you have questions about a post being removed please pm either me or any Mod. Keep this thread open for April.

Thank you

Ima

 

[southernnana]

<snipped>
In reference to the youtube link frommer posted:

I assume if those shoes had been April's, LE would have said so?

However it prompted me to verify what LE said AJ was wearing at the time of her abduction, but all I could find was this:
"Police said she was wearing her white primary school T- shirt, a purple padded coat with fur collar and black trousers."

But there was no mention in that article regarding the type of shoes or boots she was wearing. I wonder if it was stated elsewhere, though I've been unable to find it.

The Telegraph

<snipped> and BBM

bijoux, the only shoes I recall her wearing with the outfit described in your post are what looked like blue leather-look lace-up tennis shoes or oxfords. I say blue because her trousers also appear to be blue which is a more common color for a five-year old to be wearing. Otherwise, if the true color is black trousers, then probably black lace-ups.

I cannot find the link at this time with a photo that shows the shoes, but the shoes have been shown previously in photos. I will continue to look for the link.

 

[greenpalm]

<snipped> and BBM

bijoux, the only shoes I recall her wearing with the outfit described in your post are what looked like blue leather-look lace-up tennis shoes or oxfords. I say blue because her trousers also appear to be blue which is a more common color for a five-year old to be wearing. Otherwise, if the true color is black trousers, then probably black lace-ups.

I cannot find the link at this time with a photo that shows the shoes, but the shoes have been shown previously in photos. I will continue to look for the link.

At this point, if they had determined them to be April's shoes, they wouldn't tell us would they, because of the sub judice?

I assume the media will report absolutely nothing new from now on, except perhaps that April has been found, if and when she is. Or will they? I'm still a bit fuzzy on what the media can report now - I was left to assume that they can report almost nothing.

Even if he confessed at this point, would the media report on it? I'm assuming not to that too.

 

[frommer]

Don't know how accurate the account the guy gives at 2:10, he says CJ was pleased with how well both her daughters were doing in school; she's only got one daughter in that school plus a son, I believe.

It sounds as if he's implying AJ returned with CJ from the parents meeting and was only gone out to play 10 minutes. That doesn't really add up with the supposed swimming lesson and surely she'd only have arrived not long over to the garages area before CJ went back looking for her, doesn't leave much time for playing out on the so-called treat?

That's what I thought at first, but I always thought it odd that an extra 10 minutes, say 40 minutes instead of 30 for example, would be much of a treat either as AJ probably wouldn't know the difference. What could have happened was that AJ was not normally allowed out at that time, particularly on a swimming evening, but on this occasion being given 10 minutes whilst tea was being made and that might therefore be a treat.

 

[frommer]

But would deflect attention away from possibly more damning evidence in Ceinws (where the LE didn't seem to know he lived or else they would have been there and waited for him before 9.15 when he was seen there).

Also, we don't really know how the vehicle got to the repair shop - it might have broken down where the witness saw him by the bridge leading from Ceinws onto the A487 and been taken away on a low loader that was called. Trojan horse kind of thing - even passing those searching for the child on the way possibly. At 9.15am it had only recently been released by the Media that a left hand drive was a possibility. On a low loader who would notice left or right hand drive? Nobody I guess since no driver would be sitting inside.
We just don't know yet.

Did either of the witnesses, the neighbour who said MB's car was missing and the crunching gears guy, actually say it was the LR they were referring to? The LR could have been in the repair shop already. I still can't get over the light coloured van which was mentioned so much in the early reports.

Thanks for your earlier reply on the fb point, by the way.

 

[SheepMan]

Clear enough if you read everything that is available to us.

Depending on the type of phone, it can be traced even if switched off, flat battery and the SIM is removed. It happened here earlier this month in the Jill Meagher murder.

Do you have a link to show this? I don't believe they have found her phone (or it's not public knowledge) and the cell tracking they did was on AB's phone not her one? As far as I know if a phone has the battery removed (or it is flat) you can't track it. But then I am no expert

 

[frommer]

Don't know how accurate the account the guy gives at 2:10, he says CJ was pleased with how well both her daughters were doing in school; she's only got one daughter in that school plus a son, I believe.

Those are the ones that have been mentioned in MSM so yes I agree he may not be reliable. However the guy seems quite confident and looks like he knows what he is talking about (he may not, of course) and given the number of multiple relations there it is not beyond the realms of possibility that there is another daughter, not living as part of the CJ/PJ household but with father/step mother. (Mods please delete if I am not allowed to say that - not implying it's fact just saying it's possible).

Is this just a primary school or is there a secondary level too?

It has been confirmed that MB attended parents evening but which kids was he going for and who did he go with? I think it would have been most unusual for an estranged father to go on his own.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

I think ED's husband works for NR judging by FB pics.

Agree, and he was in an early TV news footage where they interviewed volunteer searchers, there was also an older gentleman who said he'd been working in the forest for years and knew it so well, that's why he volunteered.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Not sure if the Daily Record and Sunday Mail is a dodgy red top or not, but an 0ct 4th article states:

"Owen Kirkham, 80, lives in a house overlooking the farm. He said:

“Bridger moved in a couple of weeks ago. When he first came I saw him there and there was a woman and kids.''

So the idea that no one knew where MB lived may be false.

Daily Record and Sunday Mail

I really think that ED would have known, they were said to be on good terms, he went to parents' evening, may have had the children at his new home for visits, can't see why he wouldn't have given her his new address. As a concerned and involved parent, you would want the other person to have your contact details.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Those are the ones that have been mentioned in MSM so yes I agree he may not be reliable. However the guy seems quite confident and looks like he knows what he is talking about (he may not, of course) and given the number of multiple relations there it is not beyond the realms of possibility that there is another daughter, not living as part of the CJ/PJ household but with father/step mother. (Mods please delete if I am not allowed to say that - not implying it's fact just saying it's possible).

Is this just a primary school or is there a secondary level too?

It has been confirmed that MB attended parents evening but which kids was he going for and who did he go with? I think it would have been most unusual for an estranged father to go on his own.

Re school - primary and possibly secondary - my question also. CJ has two daughters and a son that are hers, older daughter J about 16. PJ has two children with KG, boy and girl.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Do you have a link to show this? I don't believe they have found her phone (or it's not public knowledge) and the cell tracking they did was on AB's phone not her one? As far as I know if a phone has the battery removed (or it is flat) you can't track it. But then I am no expert

MSM said Jill's phone -'Vodaphone provided great assistance to VicPol etc'. I don't know if they found Jill's phone but even if they didn't the tracking obviously worked. Others on that thread (Doc Watson or someone more techie than me) said that a smartphone will still track sans SIM and no or flat battery.

AB phone, not sure about that, but they did get him on camera on Tulla freeway en route to Gisborne. Not so clever.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Does anyone really think LE is basing an entire murder case on the words of a 7-year old?

No matter what led them to the suspect, what they found while investigating him seems to be the cause for changing the case from missing/kidnapped to murder. That is not so easily done without hard evidence, especially in the case of a child.

Here in the US, we currently have a number of cases with children missing for a very long time, suspects or POI's named, some even in jail or prison for charges "related" to the disappearance of the child, yet still no murder charges, although no one honestly believes these children are alive. One that did get charged with murder (and convicted) is the father of Bianca Jones, as there were hits by a cadaver dog, witness statements of beatings the night before, and possibly some blood evidence. But generally, it is very difficult to make the leap to murder in the case of a child, who does not have an electronic trail to suddenly stop, as with missing adults. And even those adult cases do not often result in murder charges, unless there is a clear crime scene.

Quite right - to base the murder charge on 7-year-old's evidence, the 7 year old had to witness the murder, so far as we know the child only witnessed AJ getting into a vehicle and the short conversation between the children - 'it's wet and cold, don't go', 'it's ok, I know them'.
The child would be witness for the abduction charge.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

But would deflect attention away from possibly more damning evidence in Ceinws (where the LE didn't seem to know he lived or else they would have been there and waited for him before 9.15 when he was seen there).

Also, we don't really know how the vehicle got to the repair shop - it might have broken down where the witness saw him by the bridge leading from Ceinws onto the A487 and been taken away on a low loader that was called. Trojan horse kind of thing - even passing those searching for the child on the way possibly. At 9.15am it had only recently been released by the Media that a left hand drive was a possibility. On a low loader who would notice left or right hand drive? Nobody I guess since no driver would be sitting inside.
We just don't know yet.

There was another witness report of seeing MB waiting for bus about 10.00am, locals on here say the stop is closest to the mechanic workshop. I realise that doesn't mean the LR wasn't picked up by towie and he went with it, but time frame might assist. If LR gave up after 9:15 when witness heard the gear crunching etc, would a tow truck turn up that quickly, load LR and have it to workshop in time for MB to be waiting for a bus back home by 10:00am? (Unlikely here in capital city but I'm asking because I don't know about Mach)

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Glaslyn or Dylife in that order would definitely be the place I'd head to. The road from Mach to Llanidloes (passing near Glaslyn and Dylife on the way) would be known to him since he worked at the abattoir at Dolwen near Llanidloes.

The rough track to Glaslyn is a dreadfully surfaced road suitable only for off road vehicles. I spent a late summer Saturday there once and saw no-one. At night, certainly no-one apart from wildlife.

Here's an aerial view of Glaslyn (blue lake in Welsh). It's an upland glacial lake - not at all on a valley floor as such. Dylife, where once a huge leadmining community lived and worked, is on the right. Scroll out to see proximity to Mach:
http://goo.gl/maps/X1wJ6

Jigzy, (or veggie) do you know from local knowledge or from media what area of 'forest' MB worked in?

 

[veggiefan]

Jigzy, (or veggie) do you know from local knowledge or from media what area of 'forest' MB worked in?

The quotation was from Glen Lewis who "said Mr Bridger had also harvested trees on forestry land close to Machynlleth."

http://www.lbc.co.uk/april-jones-profile-of-suspect-mark-bridger-60821

The most likely area would be the Forestry Commission's plantation at Tan Y Coed, which is immediately opposite MB's cottage in Ceinws (although I don't get the impression that he was still working in forestry when he moved there):

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/website/ourwoods.nsf/LUWebDocsByKey/WalesGwyneddDyfiTanyCoedTanyCoedTanyCoed

Jigzy may know of other areas.