Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #7 *M. Bridger guilty*

[Alyce]

I'm not so sure. Remains dropped into a mineshaft could be seen by lowering a miniature camera down the shaft. Remains that are burned to ashes and then dispatched into a fast-flowing river, that just happens to be in full flood at the bottom of the garden, are very unlikely to be found.

The reason I thought he may have used a mine shaft is I remember the police at the time saying there were way too many for them to be able to search them all
Plus, the depth of some of them, the level of decay and no doubt water inside the shaft.......I felt it would have been possible for him to find one, or more than one , to drop small deposits into, knowing the police would never be able to find anything, even if they did check the one he used.

However, with the amount of burning evidence that is being given, it does seem as though your theory is more accurate....... small deposits into the river, which as we know was in full flood at the time.

 

[Uchiki Kuri]

I think today the defence was quite good at installing doubt into the testimony of the forensic experts. But still, what other explanation is there that bones were found in his home? Even if it can't be 100% proven that they were human. ...

Perhaps it is normal for the clothes and environment of someone who has worked in an abattoir to be rich in bone fragments?

 

[Elainera]

Perhaps it is normal for the clothes and environment of someone who has worked in an abattoir to be rich in bone fragments?

Good thought, and the defence might well try to use it. But somehow I doubt that he would bring home bone chips from work? I mean like what, stuck in his clothes or how? Seems a bit unlikely.

I am amazed that a wood burner stove could reach the temperatures suggested.

Me too. I was pretty sure that you can't burn remains of any mammal in a domestic fireplace, just can't, because it never reaches high enough temperatures. Maybe I was wrong.

Was exactly what I was thinking as I read those tweets - how can any human being treat another in this way

Right? It's like a horror movie. I can understand some of the jury crying.

Oh the dark dark depth of the human mind Sometimes I feel very sorry for these human beings who venture down there.


Does someone know what happened to his dog?

 

[Cherwell]

I'm not sure that his job at the abattoir coincided with his residence at Ceinws. Unless there was any overlap, I'd think that could be ruled out.

 

[Alyce]

.


Does someone know what happened to his dog?

I would guess ( hope ) that the police would organise for the dog to be taken in by RSPCA or similar - in the absence of any relative or friend who might have been willing to take care of the animal

 

[ann-other]

To me it still does not add up and dreading the defence. We know April was in the car and we know her blood was found in MB's house. From what has been said by the experts today it is likely that they found part of a human rather than animal skull, possibly a child's, possibly April's. However, it has also been suggested that her whole body was not burnt.

Quote from Dr Roberts: The forensic expert said she would have expected other remains in the ashes of the fire if a skull had been burnt whole.
"If the whole skull had been cremated we would expect to find other pieces such as teeth."

So where did he put her the rest of her body/bones?

 

[Elainera]

From Wikipedia:

A cremator is an industrial furnace that is able to generate temperatures of 870–980 °C (1600–1800 °F) to ensure disintegration of the corpse.

snipped

The box containing the body is placed in the retort and incinerated at a temperature of 760 to 1150 °C (1400 to 2100 °F). During the cremation process, the greater portion of the body (especially the organs and other soft tissues) is vaporized and oxidized by the intense heat; gases released are discharged through the exhaust system. The process usually takes 90 minutes to two hours, with larger bodies taking longer time.

snipped

After the incineration is completed, the dry bone fragments are swept out of the retort and pulverised by a machine called a Cremulator — essentially a high-capacity, high-speed blender — to process them into "ashes" or "cremated remains", although pulverisation may also be performed by hand.



Cremation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

bbm - Seems not even at those temperatures bones dissolve completely.

 

[Clutchbag]

Perhaps it is normal for the clothes and environment of someone who has worked in an abattoir to be rich in bone fragments?

Thats a good point but he had only been at that house about a month:
Quote
Today a jury at Mold Crown Court heard Mr Bridger worked at an abattoir in Llanidloes as an "operative" between October 2009 and January 2010, then in "quality assurance" between January 2010 and February 2012.
Unquote

And an article back last year in the telegraph mentioned he had recently worked part time shifts at a local abbatoir, unclear how recent to october that was though, see last paragraph


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...spect-Mark-Bridger-was-weapons-collector.html

And wouldnt they have worn protective clothing?


I wonder if the previous owner/occupant used the stove for getting rid of game or something. The testimonies today did seem to pose some element of doubt I agree

Ann, depending on the type of wood burner they can go up over 1000 degrees

 

[Alyce]

Thats a good point but he had only been at that house about a month:
Quote
Today a jury at Mold Crown Court heard Mr Bridger worked at an abattoir in Llanidloes as an "operative" between October 2009 and January 2010, then in "quality assurance" between January 2010 and February 2012.
Unquote

And an article back last year in the telegraph mentioned he had recently worked part time shifts at a local abbatoir, unclear how recent to october that was though, see last paragraph


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...spect-Mark-Bridger-was-weapons-collector.html


I wonder if the previous owner/occupant used the stove for getting rid of game or something. The testimonies today did seem to pose some element of doubt I agree

Ann, depending on the type of wood burner they can go up over 1000 degrees

But hasnt the owner testified that he ( and his family ) did a very thorough clean through of the cottage before it was rented to MB. He is quoted as saying he made it as clean as he would want it to be if he was moving in there.
So, I would have expected ( hoped ) that this would include a thorough clean out of the stove.

 

[Clutchbag]

But hasnt the owner testified that he ( and his family ) did a very thorough clean through of the cottage before it was rented to MB. He is quoted as saying he made it as clean as he would want it to be if he was moving in there.
So, I would have expected ( hoped ) that this would include a thorough clean out of the stove.

Yes, most probably, but we are talking half to 1 cm fragments, all depends how sure the experts are they are not animal bones

 

[Cherwell]

To me it still does not add up and dreading the defence. We know April was in the car and we know her blood was found in MB's house. From what has been said by the experts today it is likely that they found part of a human rather than animal skull, possibly a child's, possibly April's. However, it has also been suggested that her whole body was not burnt.

Quote from Dr Roberts: The forensic expert said she would have expected other remains in the ashes of the fire if a skull had been burnt whole.
"If the whole skull had been cremated we would expect to find other pieces such as teeth."

So where did he put her the rest of her body/bones?

No, I don't think he knowingly burned any part of the remains. He said himself that wouldn't have done that. Only small fragments seem to be involved here, which could have been tipped into the fire as part of a cleaning-up procedure. Could be they were trapped in cloths or rags which were used to clean up, then tossed into the fire.

As I said earlier, I think he must have cut the remains up into very small pieces and disposed of them in the river, where they would soon have been dispersed in the flood.

 

[ann-other]

Is that 1000% Celsius? Clutchbag. Even more surprised they can reach that temp!

 

[Clutchbag]

Is that 1000% Celsius? Clutchbag. Even more surprised they can reach that temp!

No, sorry , its fahrenheit

 

[Elainera]

No, sorry , its fahrenheit

1000 Fahrenheit wouldn't be enough though.

Cherwell:

As I said earlier, I think he must have cut the remains up into very small pieces and disposed of them in the river, where they would soon have been dispersed in the flood.

I can not imagine cutting a skull into so small pieces? It's really very very weird what they found there. Of course he worked at an abbatoir, he knew exactly where to cut. But these small skull pieces don't make sense to me. How do you get there? Not by cutting. Sawing? Crushing?

Horrible, just horrible.

I kind of hope the prosecution has this part wrong.

Not that I wish such a gruesome death on an animal, but not on April either!

 

[ann-other]

Welcome back everyone Can't wait to hear MB cross examination!

 

[Neurotripsy]

@evansma:

Back at Mold Crown Court today for the #apriljones trial where Mark Bridger is due to begin giving evidence.


@NewsAndyD:

#AprilJones Mark Bridger now in the witness box, wearing grey trousers, a short sleeved light blue shirt, and a dark blue tie

#AprilJones Bridger starts crying as he is sworn in


@stevenmorris20:

#apriljones' parents watch from public gallery. First time they have seen #markbridger during trial. Bridger takes oath. Voice breaks.


@NewsAndyD:

#AprilJones Defence barrister Brendan Kelly QC tells Mark Bridger that he will ask questions about his background


@skynewsnorth:

Bridger tells court about his childhood in Surrey. Has a brother and sister. #apriljones


@NewsAndyD:

#AprilJones jury being told about his education in Croydon, South London


@stevenmorris20:

In clear voice Bridger gives date of birth and full name. Says he was born in Surrey, passed seven CSEs, was accepted into fire service.


@skynewsnorth:

Bridger tells court he is a former firefighter. #apriljones


@NewsAndyD:

#AprilJones Bridger says he worked for less than a year with the fire service because of personal problems.

#AprilJones Bridger: "I split up with my partner, we'd just had a baby, a boy"

#AprilJones The 47 year old tells the court he moved to North Wales when he was around 21.

#AprilJones Bridger says he brought camping equipment and lived on the beach for a number of months. Before moving into Porthmadog

#AprilJones also lived in Ffestiniog for a number of years, working for a plastics company

#AprilJones Bridger says he has never been employed in the military, defence asks why he told people he did..

#AprilJones "when I moved to Machynlleth everyone wanted to know who I was, "I didn't want them to know I've had problems in my past"

#AprilJones Defence QC says part of his past is a number of criminal convictions


@skynewsnorth:

Bridger says he lied because when he moved to North Wales and he didn't want people to know about past problems. #apriljones

Says he pleaded guilty to possessing firearm and theft when he was 19. #apriljones


@NewsAndyD:

#AprilJones Bridger was give two years probation at the Old Bailey when he was 19. Possession of a firearm, an imitation firearm...

#apriljones also theft and obtaining property by deception. He pleaded guilty to the charges

#AprilJones Bridger says he 'naively' accepted the prosecution case that they were going to rob a post office. He says he wasn't

#AprilJones in 1991 Bridger was charged with Criminal damage, afray, driving without insurance in Aberwystryth.

#AprilJones Bridger says he 'believes' he'd had a disagreement with another driver, hitting car with his hand

#AprilJones Bridger says he has no convictions for sexual offences or indecent images

#AprilJones Bridger again composes himself as he talks about a woman he married after three months, Julie Williams.


@evansma:

Bridger is going through his. Various relationships. He has six children with four different women. #apriljones


@skymarkwhite:

Bridger telling court about his first marriage - he had 2 sons by that relationship, now aged 21 and 23 #AprilJones


@DarrenLittleSky:

Now onto evidence of the start of MB's relationship with his ex who now lives on Bryn y Gog estate #apriljones

MB confirms through his ex he met April's dad Paul who was in relationship with her sister #apriljones

MB admits police called to his ex's address twice because of his behaviour #apriljones

MB says he moved to Australia after break down of that relationship #apriljones

MB says he came back because he missed his children #apriljones


@skynewsnorth:

Towards the end if his relationship with Elaine Griffiths there were times when the police were called because of his behaviour. #apriljones

Bridger says he pleaded guilty to threatening words or behaviour. #apriljones

He threatened one police officer with a piece of wood and threatened to use a machete. #apriljones

Bridger tells court he had a dispute over custody of two of his children. #apriljones


@evansma:

Bridger admitted using threatening words and behaviour and battery following a domestic incident involving his partner in 2004.#apriljones


@DarrenLittleSky:

MB's last conviction assault occasioning actual bodily harm, victim needed "dental reconstruction" #apriljones


@NewsAndyD:

#AprilJones April 2007, pleaded guilty to assault, ABH. It was after an earlier 'verbal altercation'. Four month suspended sentence.


@skynewsnorth:

Bridger thumped someone in a pub. They needed dental reconstruction, court heard. #apriljones

Bridger says his relationship with another woman Victoria Fenner broke up just before the day April went missing. #apriljones

Court hears a number of cider cans and empty bottles of wine were found at Bridger's house in Ceinws. He says he was alcoholic. #apriljones


@NewsAndyD:

#AprilJones Mark Bridger says he treated his girlfriends children like they were his own


@stevenmorris20:

#markbridger says his treatment/care of his own children and those of partners had never been called into question.


@skynewsnorth:

Bridger says he was drinking excessively at the time he worked in a slaughter house. #apriljones


@DarrenLittleSky:

MB says he turned to drink when relationships broke down, had been "drinking excessively" from early 2010 #apriljones

MB says he's been on anti depressants "on and off" for 12 years #apriljones

MB says his drinking effected his memory #apriljones

MB says his memory problem got "progressively worse" #apriljones


@stevenmorris20:

#markbridger says he had been on anti-depressants for 12 years. Suffered anxiety and panic attacks. Says he drank "continually".


@NewsAndyD:

#AprilJones Mark Bridger he got to the stage when he never felt drunk, and felt comfortable driving

#AprilJones Bridger says he had problem remembering dates, times, 'lost hours' when drinking


@stevenmorris20:

#markbridger says his drinking led to memory losses - resulted in "lost hours" #apriljones

Bridger: "There were times when I would not know what I did the day before." #apriljones


@JerryLawton:

Bridger says scanner in car was "personal alarm", wet wipes were to clean up his and girlfriend's kids #AprilJones


@NewsAndyD:

#AprilJones QC asks why we're there wet wipes in the car? "when you have children, you always have wet wipes"

#AprilJones MB says that a problem with the central locking made it hard to open the passenger door

#AprilJones he also said his children had trouble getting into the Land Rover "you physically had to pick them up"

#AprilJones Bridger tells the court he was an outward bounds instructor for a school, before being a lifeguard for a season in Machynlleth.

#AprilJones Bridger says he did food testing at the abattoir rather than a 'cutting' role

#AprilJones Mark Bridger being asked about images found of his computer.

#AprilJones Mark Bridger told police he had stored them to complain about them. He says he wrote to a number of companies

#AprilJones Bridger says he came across them whilst searching for cartoons for his daughter


@DarrenLittleSky:

MB says there were pictures on his computer that he had "never looked at" #apriljones


@NewsAndyD:

#AprilJones Mark Bridger says that the images weren't saved for his gratification

#AprilJones Defence QC asks "have you ever had a sexual interest in children?" Bridger says "no", shaking his head


@skynewsnorth:

Bridger asked why he didn't complain to police. He replies: My first steps were to complain myself (to web companies.) #apriljones


@NewsAndyD:

#AprilJones Bridger says the people in Facebook pictures he had saved off Facebook, were friends of his ex's children

#AprilJones Mark Bridger tells the court that some of the Facebook pictures had been saved for his children, at their request.


@DarrenLittleSky:

MB says he had pics on his computer of April's sisters was because his children had wanted pictures of their cousins #apriljones

MB said he "didn't know" April was in the pics on his computer #apriljones

MB says he unfriended April's mum on Facebook at request of ex girlfriend, he later received a new friend request from her #apriljones


@stevenmorris20:

#markbridger says he did not know he had pictures of #apriljones on his computer. Voice breaks as he is asked about this.


@skynewsnorth:

Jury takes a break. #apriljones


Lengthier live updates C&Pd over on Pastebin.

 

[Crazy Mama]

I am thinking about her age and that a lot of her body parts would still have been cartilage and therefore would have been easy to destroy in a woodburner. My dad has one that can really fire up and for long periods too, although we have never tested bones or bodies in it!!!!

I want to know if they cleared his drains or pipes from the house.

I think that she was killed in front of the fire place, then he realized that it was getting too messy so he carried her body to the bathroom (the drips all the way and on the doors etc) and dismembered her in the bathtub. He must have washed away or flushed away what he could and then burnt the rest before throwing the remnants in the fast moving swollen river.:facepalm:

 

[Crazy Mama]

I think that Bridger will destroy all of his plans today on the stand.

 

[veggiefan]

A long and diverse criminal record: possession of a firearm, obtaining property by deception, convictions for affray, driving without insurance, battery, actual bodily harm, using threatening words and behaviour; plus police called to his ex's address twice because of his behaviour, and he threatened a police officer with a piece of wood and a machete.

Clearly he lacks self-control and the ability to learn from past mistakes.

 

[Clutchbag]

AprilJones QC asks why we're there wet wipes in the car? "when you have children, you always have wet wipes"

Must admt, that is kind of a stupid question to ask!