Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #7 *M. Bridger guilty*

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  • #1,021
His story is flimsy and wishy washy.
The Pros' story is not strong.
I don't envy the jury.

The jury will need to consider the facts in relation to the two charges.

Murder and disposing of the body (Perverting the cause of Justice).

The Murder charge is the most important as the second would automatically follow if that is proven.
 
  • #1,022
speaks volumes... in that the defence must be satisfied with how the case looks for them at this point.

the case was expected to last longer. maybe they had more witnesses, but now feel they are not needed.

At the very least I expected an expert talk about the connection of alcohol addiction and memory loss, as the whole defence basically rests on MB not remembering much.

I wonder whether they feel satisfied. (defence att. and MB)
 
  • #1,023
The jury will need to consider the facts in relation to the two charges.

Murder and disposing of the body (Perverting the cause of Justice).

The Murder charge is the most important as the second would automatically follow if that is proven.

I don't think it is (proven). You?
 
  • #1,024
I could have accepted his version of events as being feasible up to a point, but he's done too much back-tracking and in short, I don't believe him. I also find it very hard to believe that if he'd run over a child, he wouldn't have sought help immediately.
 
  • #1,025
I wonder why in the past 9 months they have not tried to hypnotise him. People can recall more when hypnotised. Maybe it would have helped to find her body, at least.

Did he ever take a polygraph?
 
  • #1,026
I wonder why in the past 9 months they have not tried to hypnotise him. People can recall more when hypnotised. Maybe it would have helped to find her body, at least.

Did he ever take a polygraph?

We don't use polygraphs here, they can't be used as evidence.

He knows where her body is, he won't say obviously otherwise that would go even more against him.

I may be alone with this thought but I really do think he'll get convicted of murder.
 
  • #1,027
I wonder why in the past 9 months they have not tried to hypnotise him. People can recall more when hypnotised. Maybe it would have helped to find her body, at least.

Did he ever take a polygraph?

The CPS warns that there is a strong likelihood that evidence obtained under hypnosis will be unreliable and inadmissible in criminal proceedings.

Similarly, the results of poygraph tests are not regarded as reliable, and therefore cannot be introduced in court.
 
  • #1,028
I don't think it is (proven). You?

I think the crucial issue is that the poor girl has allegedly been seen getting into his car of her own volition. Then her blood is present in his home despite an extensive clean up.

His explanation is that he crushed a small 6 year old girl under the front wheel, at the engine end, of a heavy vehicle, not once but twice, and then places her in the vehicle but that this leaves no trace of blood in his vehicle.

I can understand some accidents result in internal injuries only which is why you should not move an accident victim until examined by a doctor or paramedic on the scene. But a 6 year old girl under a Land Rover?

I'm not sure what I can say as I live in the UK but has this issue really been addressed by the defence?
 
  • #1,029
At the very least I expected an expert talk about the connection of alcohol addiction and memory loss, as the whole defence basically rests on MB not remembering much.

I wonder whether they feel satisfied. (defence att. and MB)

I agree. It seems very strange that they have not produced either experts or written documentation of studies to show how alcohol can cause blackouts and memory loss. I would have thought it to be a major point for the defence.
 
  • #1,030
bbm - I was thinking about this too. But if he really cut her up there would be blood loss, even if there's no active bleeding as from a live body, I think.

And we don't know how much blood they found. Did they ever specify the amount?

From memory, there was sufficient to make me think that AJ was still alive at this point which is why I wondered that the Pros didnt highlight the discrepancy of MB saying she was dead.
But I suppose ( hope ) they have good reason for not doing so.
 
  • #1,031
The prosecution still has the opportunity to make all these points in the closing speech.
 
  • #1,032
We don't use polygraphs here, they can't be used as evidence.

He knows where her body is, he won't say obviously otherwise that would go even more against him.

I may be alone with this thought but I really do think he'll get convicted of murder.

The CPS warns that there is a strong likelihood that evidence obtained under hypnosis will be unreliable and inadmissible in criminal proceedings.

Similarly, the results of poygraph tests are not regarded as reliable, and therefore cannot be introduced in court.

I wasn't so much thinking of evidence gathered that way (polygraph, hypnosis), but her body being found. Which would have been a tremendous relief for the family, and would have saved a lot of money that was spent on the searches. This is why I was curious why it was never even tried.
 
  • #1,033
My first post on the web so please be patient and gentle ;)

MY CASE FACTS AND SUMMARY for april jones trial

This brendan kelly defence QC now has me worried, I can see a mistrial for certain, the police have messed up here and that prosecution was very weak against bridger


LETS NOT MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS HERE NOW AND LOOK AT FACTS OF THE CASE.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHAT THE PROSECUTION DIDN'T HAVE

No1 - no proof of bones conclusively. THATS VERY UNCLEAR AS TO WHAT OR WHO THEY ARE 100%

No2 - no proof of murder conclusively. IMPOSSIBLE TO SHOW HE MURDERED HER

No3 - no conclusive proof of abduction. THAT WONT STICK BECAUSE OF No 4

No4 - a lying 7 year old main witness who doesnt know colours of cars and sees eyes that arent there. UNRELIABLE AND POTENTIALLY COAXED BY HER MUM WHO SHOWN HER PHOTOS OF LAND ROVERS FOR SOME REASON

No5 - NO FORENSIC INVESTIGATION OF THE ACTUAL CRIME SCENE. MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR FAIL DUE TO A " MISUNDERSTANDING " BY THE POLICE

No6 - no forensic examination of his drains in his house. POTENTIAL EVIDENCE MAY OF BEEN THERE IF BONE WAS FOUND IN BATH PLUG AREA

No7 - disturbance of a crime scene in his house by not wearing protective clothing REGARDLESS of whether they were looking for him, they touched stuff all over that house and in doing so left their own finger prints and foot prints everywhere and DNA there. SPEAKS FOR ITSELF

No 8 - NO BODY - NO CAUSE OF DEATH/NO PROOF OF CRUSHED CHEST TO BACK HIS STORY UP OR PROVE HIM WRONG

No 9 - NO PROOF OF SEXUAL ASSAULT which is what they based the case of murder on with intention to of sexually assaulted her - HAVING PICTURES HOWEVER GRAPHIC OF CHILDREN OF VARIOUS AGES DOESNT MAKE SOMEONE A SEXUAL ASSAULTER BUT IT DOES POTRAY A VERY UNHEALTHY INTEREST

No 10 - No proof of his story/alibi being a lie - THEY WERE POOR IN CROSS EXAMINATION, CONCENTRATED ON PHOTOS TOO MUCH AND SCRAPED THE BARREL WITH TO MANY UNNECCESARY QUESTIONS AND NOT ENOUGH PRESSING RELEVANT ONES - TOO MANY QUESTIONS MISSED AND I BELIEVE EVANS KNEW SHE WAS ONTO A LOSS WITH THAT TRYING TO GET ANSWERS - HE WON THAT BECAUSE DESPITE HER GRILLING HIM HE ACTUALLY DIDNT FALTER THAT BADLY, HE WAS VERY COMPOSED IN COURT ON WEDNESDAY TOO

No 11 - No murder weapon - KNIFE IN FIRE WITH NO DNA ON IT DOESNT PROVE HE MURDERED HER OR DISMEMBERED HER WITH THAT

No 12 - An unmatched 3rd finger print in his bathroom - WHO WAS THAT IF IT WASNT APRIL OR MARK? SOMEONE ELSE WAS POTENTIALLY THERE?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

WHAT DID THEY HAVE ON HIM

No 1 - Aprils blood in his house albeit a very small amount - PROVES SHE WAS THERE BUT DID SHE DIE THERE OR WAS SHE KILLED THERE OR CAN THEY SAFELY PROVE SHE WAS MURDERED THERE BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF BLOOD LOST? NO CLEARLY THEY CANT

No 2 - A confession he killed her by accident, which came from a compulsive liar - IS HE COVERING IT UP FOR SOMEONE ELSE TOO, IS HE TRUTHFUL IN HIS ADMITTANCE?

No 3 - Bone fragments in his house which havent been proven to be aprils - sorry, could anything that in that case - RUBBISH EVIDENCE AND SERIOUSLY SCRAPING THE BARREL IF THEY COULDNT CONCLUDE IT WAS APRIL

No 4 - A laptop with numerous indecent images of young children - POTENTIAL PAEDO MAYBE BUT NOT PROVEN AS OF YET AND NO PREVIOUS CONVICTIONS FOR THAT

No 5 - Knife from a fire - doesnt prove a thing that because no DNA on it - IT WAS A KITCHEN KNIFE NOT A BONING KNIFE TOO, TRYING TO MAKE IT MORE DRAMATIC BECAUSE HE WORKED IN A SLAUGHTERHOUSE

_____________________________________________________________

If you had never heard of this case and just read all that above ,what would you think of the crown prosecutons case for a trial???

I would tell them to go back and do a proper job before I authorise charges!!!!

I can see an acquittal coming up here on technicalities and this QC specialises in them.

An abrupt and surprising end to todays proceedings with defence all of a sudden ending their evidence
 
  • #1,034
Welcome to the forum redfanforever1970! Thanks for joining us. Excellent first post. You summed it up pretty good.

Question: if murder can not be proven will he still get time for drunk driving leading to death of April, which he admitted to, and possession of child 🤬🤬🤬🤬?
 
  • #1,035
Welcome redfan, good post.

No5 - NO FORENSIC INVESTIGATION OF THE ACTUAL CRIME SCENE. MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR FAIL DUE TO A " MISUNDERSTANDING " BY THE POLICE

Quite unbelievable, presumably MB told them about the alledged accident early on so potential evidence could still be there

Eta

Elainera Id like to know that too, if he is found not guilty of murder and abduction, can he be found guilty of other charges if they werent originally part of it?
 
  • #1,036
Welcome to the forum redfanforever1970! Thanks for joining us. Excellent first post. You summed it up pretty good.

Question: if murder can not be proven will he still get time for drunk driving leading to death of April, which he admitted to, and possession of child 🤬🤬🤬🤬?

I dont think that they can automatically sentence him for possesion of child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 and/or drunk driving, i think he would have to be arrested for drink driving and take a breathalyser test which of course is pointless this far on because he is sober

I think for the child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 they would have to arrest him again on that and charge him accordingly and a fresh trial would possibly happen on that but as far as I am aware, they cant attach it onto the current trial and charges, that wouldnt be fair to do so
 
  • #1,037
Welcome redfan, good post.

No5 - NO FORENSIC INVESTIGATION OF THE ACTUAL CRIME SCENE. MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR FAIL DUE TO A " MISUNDERSTANDING " BY THE POLICE

Quite unbelievable, presumably MB told them about the alledged accident early on so potential evidence could still be there

Eta

Elainera Id like to know that too, if he is found not guilty of murder and abduction, can he be found guilty of other charges if they werent originally part of it?
- No a seperate arrest and charge has to occur as that wasnt part of the original charges

He can be found guilty or not guilty on any,all,some or none of the charges but they cant just add the child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 on or drunk driving, it would be a seperate issue.

nearly 9 months on there would be zero evidence left at the garage scene, its too late anyway because it would of been contaminated with many other people since then, all they did was tape the scene to stop people trespassing on it yet didnt actually bother to forensically examine and search that said area for any vital evidence to either support his accident theory or disprove it!
 
  • #1,038
I am telling you now....they cannot charge him with murder or hiding a body....
 
  • #1,039
I am telling you now....they cannot charge him with murder or hiding a body....

They ALREADY have charged him with murder mama, and they have also charged him with perverting the course of justice whilst concealing or disposing of a body and also with abduction, those are the 3 charges he is currently facing at this trial!

Both prosecution and defence have no finished their cases and next week from tuesday we will hear both parties do their summing up and the judge will do his summing up on wednesday with the jury due to retire on thursday for their verdict delibarations!

What maybe you mean is, maybe they cant find him guilty? They have charged him back in october
 
  • #1,040
No4 - a lying 7 year old main witness who doesnt know colours of cars and sees eyes that arent there. UNRELIABLE AND POTENTIALLY COAXED BY HER MUM WHO SHOWN HER PHOTOS OF LAND ROVERS FOR SOME REASON

She may be inconsistent and (as you say) unreliable, but you are out of order in calling her a liar.

No6 - no forensic examination of his drains in his house. POTENTIAL EVIDENCE MAY OF BEEN THERE IF BONE WAS FOUND IN BATH PLUG AREA

There was and they did:

In addition to examining the ashes of Bridger's Mount Pleasant home, Ms Ainscough was also asked to analyse the "trappings" retrieved from the waste pipes of the bath and bathroom sink. The witness told jurors that a "very small" fragment measuring 2mm by 3mm was found in the bath trappings. She said that while it "had the appearance of bone ... (she) cannot say with any degree of certainty that this was human or non-human. It did not display any of the classic discolouration ... so as far as I can determine it does not appear to be burnt," she added.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/live-updates-april-jones-trial-3902235

No7 - disturbance of a crime scene in his house by not wearing protective clothing REGARDLESS of whether they were looking for him, they touched stuff all over that house and in doing so left their own finger prints and foot prints everywhere and DNA there. SPEAKS FOR ITSELF

I must have missed this, can you give me a source for it?

HE WAS VERY COMPOSED IN COURT ON WEDNESDAY TOO
Were you in court? This is something that we readers miss, the demeanour, voice and body language of all concerned.

No 12 - An unmatched 3rd finger print in his bathroom - WHO WAS THAT IF IT WASNT APRIL OR MARK? SOMEONE ELSE WAS POTENTIALLY THERE?

Most likely the ex-girlfriend VF from an earlier visit, or one of the children.
 
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