Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #7 *M. Bridger guilty*

[George Gently]

Just some of the points raised.

No1 - no proof of bones conclusively. THATS VERY UNCLEAR AS TO WHAT OR WHO THEY ARE 100%

This would be helpful in achieving a conviction for Murder but which it also does not disprove. It could be crucial for the lesser second charge which is Perverting the Cause of Justice.

No3 - no conclusive proof of abduction. THAT WONT STICK BECAUSE OF No 4

No4 - a lying 7 year old main witness who doesnt know colours of cars and sees eyes that arent there. UNRELIABLE AND POTENTIALLY COAXED BY HER MUM WHO SHOWN HER PHOTOS OF LAND ROVERS FOR SOME REASON

Can she distinguish between being run over twice by the vehicle and then being picked up carried, and climbing into it of her own volition.

No5 - NO FORENSIC INVESTIGATION OF THE ACTUAL CRIME SCENE. MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR FAIL DUE TO A " MISUNDERSTANDING " BY THE POLICE

I would have thought that a small child being twice under the front wheel of a heavy Land Rover would cause more than just internal bleeding so would have left some blood behind. It wouldn't need a forensic follow up to determine there was no blood.

No6 - no forensic examination of his drains in his house. POTENTIAL EVIDENCE MAY OF BEEN THERE IF BONE WAS FOUND IN BATH PLUG AREA

This would have been found in the u-bend but it is possible gallons of water would have gone down the drains carrying any trace of blood away.

No7 - disturbance of a crime scene in his house by not wearing protective clothing REGARDLESS of whether they were looking for him, they touched stuff all over that house and in doing so left their own finger prints and foot prints everywhere and DNA there. SPEAKS FOR ITSELF

Unless they had previous contact with April that could not explain the presence of her DNA and certainly not her blood.

No 10 - No proof of his story/alibi being a lie - THEY WERE POOR IN CROSS EXAMINATION, CONCENTRATED ON PHOTOS TOO MUCH AND SCRAPED THE BARREL WITH TO MANY UNNECCESARY QUESTIONS AND NOT ENOUGH PRESSING RELEVANT ONES - TOO MANY QUESTIONS MISSED AND I BELIEVE EVANS KNEW SHE WAS ONTO A LOSS WITH THAT TRYING TO GET ANSWERS - HE WON THAT BECAUSE DESPITE HER GRILLING HIM HE ACTUALLY DIDNT FALTER THAT BADLY, HE WAS VERY COMPOSED IN COURT ON WEDNESDAY TOO

How has he explained no blood in the car but blood in his home. This was not an impact injury but that caused by a Land Rover twice crushing her under the front wheel as he alleges. In fact by the time he has got home and carried her out the car, he claims there was sufficient blood that he needed to wash the fleece top he was wearing. Yet, still none in the car.

No 11 - No murder weapon - KNIFE IN FIRE WITH NO DNA ON IT DOESNT PROVE HE MURDERED HER OR DISMEMBERED HER WITH THAT

Only of value in determining the cause of death. Her blood trail is picked up on the front room carpet.

The summing up should be interesting.

 

[Elainera]

For those who are in the UK:

how is the public reacting to the proceedings of the case? Is this a big case in the UK? Is there constant coverage in the news, with experts weighing in, etc? Are there those who believe him and those who don't, is there discussion?

 

[redfanforever1970]

She may be inconsistent and (as you say) unreliable, but you are out of order in calling her a liar.

She lied about seeing his eyes ( she said she made that bit up so its a lie therefore on that count she is a liar and I do mean that lightly and not offensively )



There was and they did:


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/live-updates-april-jones-trial-3902235

They DIDNT examine the drains from the house! They examined the plugs and traps, thats NOT the drains leading from his house, they havent dug up ANY drains at all. To clarify, by drains I mean the pipes leading to the outside of the house and subsequently underground from the house. His garden/drainage area has NOT been dug up at all


I must have missed this, can you give me a source for it?

When they went to arrest him at 3pm on the 2nd, officers entered his house and searched for april and they didnt wear protective clothing ( brendan kelly cross examined the officers and they confirmed this, it is in the tweets if you look fo rthem )

Were you in court? This is something that we readers miss, the demeanour, voice and body language of all concerned.

Yes I was in court and i was stunned by how it was



Most likely the ex-girlfriend VF from an earlier visit, or one of the children.

Most likely to be anybody but NOT confirmed it was vicki fenner was it? Do you think they should of actually ruled her out fully or should it be blase and anybodys guess as to whom it could be?

 

[Clutchbag]

- No a seperate arrest and charge has to occur as that wasnt part of the original charges

He can be found guilty or not guilty on any,all,some or none of the charges but they cant just add the child on or drunk driving, it would be a seperate issue.

nearly 9 months on there would be zero evidence left at the garage scene, its too late anyway because it would of been contaminated with many other people since then, all they did was tape the scene to stop people trespassing on it yet didnt actually bother to forensically examine and search that said area for any vital evidence to either support his accident theory or disprove it!

Yes, I meant if he told the police from day one about the alledged accident, there might have still been forensic evidence there for a few days

 

[redfanforever1970]

She may be inconsistent and (as you say) unreliable, but you are out of order in calling her a liar.



There was and they did:


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/live-updates-april-jones-trial-3902235



I must have missed this, can you give me a source for it?

Were you in court? This is something that we readers miss, the demeanour, voice and body language of all concerned.



Most likely the ex-girlfriend VF from an earlier visit, or one of the children.

Most likely to be anybody but NOT confirmed it was vicki fenner was it? Do you think they should of actually ruled her out fully or should it be blase and anybodys guess as to whom it could be?

Sorry, not sure how to reply to an multiple individual quotes cherwell so its mixed up above

 

[Clutchbag]

For those who are in the UK:

how is the public reacting to the proceedings of the case? Is this a big case in the UK? Is there constant coverage in the news, with experts weighing in, etc? Are there those who believe him and those who don't, is there discussion?

People are not allowed to comment on the case until its over. Any newspaper bringing daily news, the comments are closed. Think its called subjudice or something. So the jury do not get influenced by the media, There may be the odd blog somewhere though. Its unlike the USA where the tv show presenters chat about it all and give their personal opinions whilst it all goes on.

 

[redfanforever1970]

Yes, I meant if he told the police from day one about the alledged accident, there might have still been forensic evidence there for a few days

Yes quite possibly there might of been but they didnt did they! This will bite them back surely

Their excuse - "a misunderstanding" by the officer in the dock!

Also the roadblock was only in place at dyfi bridge till midnight and not permanent, anybody could of come and gone thru the night!

 

[Sarahlou]

For those who are in the UK:

how is the public reacting to the proceedings of the case? Is this a big case in the UK? Is there constant coverage in the news, with experts weighing in, etc? Are there those who believe him and those who don't, is there discussion?

I've not seen much about the case in the news, I think the Stuart Hazell case was bigger.
I was reading a thread earlier on a British site and all thought he was guilty and would get a long sentence. That's why I'm rather surprised with some of the thoughts here.

 

[Cherwell]

Most likely to be anybody but NOT confirmed it was vicki fenner was it? Do you think they should of actually ruled her out fully or should it be blase and anybodys guess as to whom it could be?

I don't know if she has been fingerprinted and ruled out. There would be no reason to name her publicly if this is the case.

 

[redfanforever1970]

I don't know if she has been fingerprinted and ruled out. There would be no reason to name her publicly if this is the case.

I dont know if she was either, not been mentioned from what i know, her name has been mentioned lots of times tho and they officially broke up on the day of april going missing so its clearly been a big area of interest her and him and their relationship leading up to it

 

[Crazy Mama]

Sorry, I did not mean that he will not be charged. I meant that I did not think that he will be found guilty of murder or of hiding the body.
The amount of alcohol cans/bottles that were removed from the house are surely an indication of how much he drank? I would think that if he sticks to his story then he will be ok.

 

[Elainera]

I've not seen much about the case in the news, I think the Stuart Hazell case was bigger.
I was reading a thread earlier on a British site and all thought he was guilty and would get a long sentence. That's why I'm rather surprised with some of the thoughts here.

So the people in the other forum think that the prosecution presented a strong case for murder and sexual abuse?

 

[ann-other]

I totally agree with a lot of the above comments and totally confused by today's proceedings. I like others, was expecting to hear more from other witnesses and shocked that this is now not occurring. I still wonder what happened in that hour prior to MB arriving back at his house and still not convinced someone else is not involved (however, I would imagine other finger prints were VF's)

I also still believe that April was dead on arrival at his house and the blood purely came about from whatever means he used to dispose of the body. As I mentioned in an earlier post, blood will pool after death to the lowest gravitational point of the body for a few hours after death.

Is it possible at the worst, they could at least charge him with manslaughter?

 

[redfanforever1970]

Not sure of manslaughter, I will have to check if it can go to that or be offered

If it cant be offered or wont be considered and he is deemed not guilty of murder then the rest i think wont count

Strongest one at the moment seems to be the PTCoJ charge,concealing her body which he doesnt know what he has done with, he said he has placed her somewhere so he is guilty of that but murder I am very doubtful on,mainly because no body to prove it or prove intent to kill her

 

[veggiefan]

I wasn't so much thinking of evidence gathered that way (polygraph, hypnosis), but her body being found. Which would have been a tremendous relief for the family, and would have saved a lot of money that was spent on the searches. This is why I was curious why it was never even tried.

I see what you mean, but neither hypnosis nor lie detectors are regarded as reliable in the UK and are therefore not normally used. I would imagine that hypnosis in particular would require the subject to be compliant and probably susceptible - MB, in contrast, seems to me to be an accomplished liar. And there's always the danger that if, under hypnosis or during a polygraph test, MB confirmed that he had no memory of what happened, then the case for the defence would be considerably strengthened.

As to the point about finding April's body, I'm afraid I have been convinced from the start that it would never be found - dispersal of the remains in the sea by means of a fast-flowing river in full flood, only a few yards from the house, was always the most obvious route of disposal.

 

[Cherwell]

So the people in the other forum think that the prosecution presented a strong case for murder and sexual abuse?

He hasn't been charged with sexual abuse. It is a potential motive though.

 

[veggiefan]

how is the public reacting to the proceedings of the case? Is this a big case in the UK? Is there constant coverage in the news, with experts weighing in, etc? Are there those who believe him and those who don't, is there discussion?

There are factual reports of the court proceedings, although it is not the main story in the news. There is no discussion as such because, as has been mentioned, the case is ongoing.

 

[veggiefan]

Not sure of manslaughter, I will have to check if it can go to that or be offered

In a murder trial, the judge can instruct the jury to consider the lesser charge of manslaughter.

 

[Sarahlou]

So the people in the other forum think that the prosecution presented a strong case for murder and sexual abuse?

For murder yes.
I know there's no DNA evidence for rape, but I still go back to the point where he gave an excuse in case April's DNA was found on his penis. There would be no reason whatsoever for him to think up an excuse if he hadn't have raped her IMO. I think he really slipped up by saying that.

 

[Clutchbag]

How canhe be convicted of manslaughter if he didnt know there was a child under the car as he began to drive off? Well, according to his story that is.