GUILTY UK - Arrest in 1987 'Bedsit Murders' of Wendy Knell, 25, and Caroline Pierce, 20, in Kent

[Chest_Rockwell]

Quite a long scene of DF's interview with regards to the mortuary offences and probably the longest I've seen so far. He seems to talk in quite a strange manner...I can't quite place my finger on it, but he seems to have an emotionless tone of voice...like HAL in 2001 Space Odyssey

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Just when you think you have reached the depths of human depravity along comes Fuller. Places such as Hungerford, Dunblane, Soham, etc are forever associated for despicable crimes. I wonder if Tunbridge Wells will be in time?

 

[jackal67]

As I said previously there is only circumstantial evidence:-

Cutting Crew tour was only a 45 min drive away at Kingswood Amphitheatre in Toronto, Canada on 6th August so Fuller may have been hanging around the area for a few weeks after his groupie tours photographing the band (If indeed he did follow them abroad for the launch of their 1987 album).
Fuller has an ancestors grave at Resthaven memorial gardens which is only 15 minutes away from the scene of the murder
Margaret was a keen cyclist and papers say that she had dreams to cycle across the continent. Did she correspond with other cyclists as a pen friend maybe.
Cold Case Files: Ontario family recalls moments after daughter’s death 29 years ago | Globalnews.ca
Margaret was coming to the UK to visit London then a walking holiday to Dorset but was murdered before the trip. Had Margaret visited the UK before her planned 1987 trip and made friends with someone.
Murder by Strangulation then Sexually assaulted (no record on file if sexual motive was before or after her being murdered).
Her looks are similar to Wendy Knell.

Thanks very much. Great information.

 

[Dotta]

Just when you think you have reached the depths of human depravity along comes Fuller. Places such as Hungerford, Dunblane, Soham, etc are forever associated for despicable crimes. I wonder if Tunbridge Wells will be in time?

I hope not - for the sake of the people living there.
Tunbridge Wells - it is a very beautiful name and also a little mysterious.
For a foreigner like me!

 

[SaintGertrude]

I hope not - for the sake of the people living there.
Tunbridge Wells - it is a very beautiful name and also a little mysterious.
For a foreigner like me!

Tunbridge Wells also holds the Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel mystery but I highly doubt any collection to this case.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Quite a long scene of DF's interview with regards to the mortuary offences and probably the longest I've seen so far. He seems to talk in quite a strange manner...I can't quite place my finger on it, but he seems to have an emotionless tone of voice...like HAL in 2001 Space Odyssey

My thoughts are that DF, is refusing to fill in the detail, as it allows him to maintain control over the atrocities that occurred.

He had so much material that he may not be certain what he did and didn't record. He is unsure as to the extent of the material the police have recovered/viewed. He may recollect particularly 'memorable' acts but is unsure if he recorded them or if so, whether the police know about them.

He is either confirming specific information the police give him or being deliberately vague.

The depths of his depravity I dread to think of.

Maybe, with an excellent forensic psychiatrist/psychologist, a sense of trust and a personal need to purge any inner turmoil he will begin to open up, but I wouldn't hold my breath! JMOO

 

[Whitehall 1212]

My thoughts are that DF, is refusing to fill in the detail, as it allows him to maintain control over the atrocities that occurred.

He had so much material that he may not be certain what he did and didn't record. He is unsure as to the extent of the material the police have recovered/viewed. He may recollect particularly 'memorable' acts but is unsure if he recorded them or if so, whether the police know about them.

He is either confirming specific information the police give him or being deliberately vague.

The depths of his depravity I dread to think of.

Maybe, with an excellent forensic psychiatrist/psychologist, a sense of trust and a personal need to purge any inner turmoil he will begin to open up, but I wouldn't hold my breath! JMOO

What I would also add though is that this appears to be the 'Account' phase of the PEACE interview method, in which the suspect has the opportunity to give their account of the events that led to their arrest.

This phase is kept deliberately unchallenging to encourage the suspect to talk freely.

The police also endeavour to encourage the suspect to provide detail with their account to essentially commit themselves to a story of their choosing, which of course could always be the truth.

Then in the challenge phase the police will reveal any specific evidence they have which contradicts the suspects version.

This is the theory. However, if the suspect has a legal advisor they need to be able to advise their client and for this they need to know what the evidence is. Disclosure is therefore provided to the solicitor in part or whole before the interview.

It is entirely up to the police how much or little they disclose to the legal advisor before interview. However, if new evidence is revealed during interview the legal advisor is likely to request the interview is stopped to consult with their client, so the flow and any positive interaction between interviewer and suspect maybe lost.

With solid evidence the suspect may have no wriggle room, so full disclosure is given. In such cases the suspect will say "no comment". In which case the police need to ask all relevant questions to close off against defences in law or explanation for the allegations that could be used further down the line or at court after the suspect has had 'thinking time'.

Cat and mouse!

 

[joe jones]

Quite a long scene of DF's interview with regards to the mortuary offences and probably the longest I've seen so far. He seems to talk in quite a strange manner...I can't quite place my finger on it, but he seems to have an emotionless tone of voice...like HAL in 2001 Space Odyssey

the initial arrest looks to me as if he wasn't surprised and knew this day would come, similar to Christopher Hamilton who was arrested in 2015 for the murder of Melanie Road in 1984, his crime was solved after 32 years and upon his arrest he told his wife not to ever expect him to return home (not verbatim) as he knew what he had done and he was going to jail for the rest of his life given his age

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

the initial arrest looks to me as if he wasn't surprised and knew this day would come, similar to Christopher Hamilton who was arrested in 2015 for the murder of Melanie Road in 1984, his crime was solved after 32 years and upon his arrest he told his wife not to ever expect him to return home (not verbatim) as he knew what he had done and he was going to jail for the rest of his life given his age

And Hamilton knew about 2 weeks in advance that it was coming too. I was the amazed that he met up with the detective outside of his place of work and calmly had a DNA sample taken - the detective said it was all very friendly.

However, with Fuller, he had no idea it was coming...unless his brother had mentioned to him that the cops paid him a visit for a voluntary DNA sample. Even though they had the brother's DNA from a previous conviction in 2012, they did get a recent voluntary sample from him and I guess that was to confirm the original DNA belonged to him and so no mistakes on the database.

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

My thoughts are that DF, is refusing to fill in the detail, as it allows him to maintain control over the atrocities that occurred.

I agree and I think he exercised control over the trial too. He was in control of the trial with regards to how long it lasted. And I suspect he'll exercise further control over the years with regards to the details of the 2 murders, what he did with their property and other offences. I do wonder if he'll trade info for better prison conditions or even agree to speak with documentary producers in exchange for payment to his family? Is that even possible/allowed?

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

With solid evidence the suspect may have no wriggle room, so full disclosure is given. In such cases the suspect will say "no comment". In which case the police need to ask all relevant questions to close off against defences in law or explanation for the allegations that could be used further down the line or at court after the suspect has had 'thinking time'.

At the end of the video on the Sky News link below, we actually get to see Fuller being questioned about the 2 murders and he opts for "no comment" at the end.

David Fuller: Hospital worker admits murdering two women and sexually assaulting nearly 80 corpses

 

[joe jones]

And Hamilton knew about 2 weeks in advance that it was coming too. I was the amazed that he met up with the detective outside of his place of work and calmly had a DNA sample taken - the detective said it was all very friendly.

However, with Fuller, he had no idea it was coming...unless his brother had mentioned to him that the cops paid him a visit for a voluntary DNA sample. Even though they had the brother's DNA from a previous conviction in 2012, they did get a recent voluntary sample from him and I guess that was to confirm the original DNA belonged to him and so no mistakes on the database.

I think that maybe when they are caught (for some of them) the constant waiting for the knock at the door may be some relief when it happens, am not saying they want to be caught but for some it may have been a constant nagging fear,

I am fascinated by human behaviour, and want to understand how men (occasionally women) can commit horrific crimes then just blend back into society and go on to live what on the surface seems a life which is as normal as most of society,

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

I think that maybe when they are caught (for some of them) the constant waiting for the knock at the door may be some relief when it happens, am not saying they want to be caught but for some it may have been a constant nagging fear,

I am fascinated by human behaviour, and want to understand how men (occasionally women) can commit horrific crimes then just blend back into society and go on to live what on the surface seems a life which is as normal as most of society,

Very well put! Hamilton was one of those who, I reckon, felt he could control the trial. Pleaded not guilty all the way up to a trial with a jury and he suddenly switched to "guilty" when the trial started. However, he has never explained or expanded on the "motive".

Personally, I think such people convince themselves that their victims "deserved" what happened to them. They somehow justify their horrible acts in their own mind which then allows them to carry on as "normal". JMOO

 

[Dotta]

Very well put! Hamilton was one of those who, I reckon, felt he could control the trial. Pleaded not guilty all the way up to a trial with a jury and he suddenly switched to "guilty" when the trial started. However, he has never explained or expanded on the "motive".

Personally, I think such people convince themselves that their victims "deserved" what happened to them. They somehow justify their horrible acts in their own mind which then allows them to carry on as "normal". JMOO

They often compartmentalize blaming "evil entity" for their crimes.

 

[Whitehall 1212]

Very well put! Hamilton was one of those who, I reckon, felt he could control the trial. Pleaded not guilty all the way up to a trial with a jury and he suddenly switched to "guilty" when the trial started. However, he has never explained or expanded on the "motive".

Personally, I think such people convince themselves that their victims "deserved" what happened to them. They somehow justify their horrible acts in their own mind which then allows them to carry on as "normal". JMOO

I think this a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde scenario. DF has two or more personalities and his offending is entirely compartmentalised, as alluded to by @Dotta.

I think DF finds it almost impossible to discuss the detail of his offences, even if he has full recollection, as they were committed as one of his other personalities.

The offences are so disturbing that to manage daily, 'normal' living they would need to be remote from the everyday personality.

We know so little about the workings of the brain. One day it will be possible to explain in detail how why some individuals commit such horror and how the brain processes it. JMOO

 

[SaintGertrude]

I was just listening to the lyrics of a certain song mentioned before which will now be embedded in my head for all the wrong reasons.

The lyrics mention a 'diary by a bedside table'.

'And I don't see an easy way to get out of this
Her diary, it sits by the bedside table'

One of the bedsit murdered victims had a diary stolen.
I'm getting shivers now. Did the song come out around the same time as the murder

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

I was just listening to the lyrics of a certain song mentioned before which will now be embedded in my head for all the wrong reasons.

The lyrics mention a 'diary by a bedside table'.

'And I don't see an easy way to get out of this
Her diary, it sits by the bedside table
The curtains are closed, the cats in the cradle
Who would've thought that a boy like me could come to this'

One of the bedsit murdered victims had a diary stolen.
I'm getting shivers now. Did the song come out around the same time as the murder

Yeah, Wendy Knell had her diary taken.

Song was released in the UK on 25 July 1986

 

[SaintGertrude]

Yeah, Wendy Knell had her diary taken.

Song was released in the UK on 25 July 1986

I need to listen to some other song lyrics from the band he was obsessed with. We just don't know what goes through a killers mind and could lead to other clues if he remains a possible suspect for the Bedgebury murder of Jean Brooks. Was her murder in June 1982 before he was band obsessed. I only know that 1986 was around when they became famous so not sure if he was unofficial photographer before this if a local groupie.

 

[Chest_Rockwell]

We know he went to see them at Tunbridge Wells Assembly Hall and I believe the date was Wed 19th Nov 1986. He then went to Buster Browns, where Caroline worked, after the gig - quite a trek from the Assembly Hall I'd say.

 

[Dotta]

I was just listening to the lyrics of a certain song mentioned before which will now be embedded in my head for all the wrong reasons.

The lyrics mention a 'diary by a bedside table'.

'And I don't see an easy way to get out of this
Her diary, it sits by the bedside table'

One of the bedsit murdered victims had a diary stolen.
I'm getting shivers now. Did the song come out around the same time as the murder

You know, if it is true, it makes me wonder...
Why to take the victim's diary?
To read it?
To get to know the girl better?

The same thing happened with the dead he abused.
He checked the info about these women in Internet.

This seems the victims weren't just "bodies" for him, he felt some strange "emotional" connection with them.

He seemed to be split:

In his "normal" life he had wives, kids, lovers.

In the paralel "nocturnal" life he also had "lovers".

Hovewer macabre it sounds.

MOO