UK - Arthur Labinjo Hughes, 6, killed, dad & friend arrested, June 2020 #2

[Dotta]

You could be right, but speaking from experience, I once witnessed a man physically attacking, I presume his girlfriend. I called the police and was asked to give a statement. I then received a letter, summoning me to court as a witness, the letter stated that if I didn't attend, a warrant would be put out for my arrest, so I had no choice but to attend. That was quite a few years ago now though so I don't know if things have changed since then.

How brave and noble of you!
Societies need more people like you!
Kudos

 

[Mellowmelly]

How brave and noble of you!
Societies need more people like you!
Kudos

Thanks Dotta, however I don't consider myself that, its just what I'd expect if someone was attacking me !

 

[ScottishSam]

Thanks Dotta, however I don't consider myself that, its just what I'd expect if someone was attacking me !

Years ago, coming home from being out clubbing, my taxi driver drove past a man beating this woman up in the street. I asked him to stop and help, he replied 'it'll all be fine in the morning', and kept driving. I reported him the next day. Don't know what happened to him, or the poor girl being battered in the street.
I'd hope if this was me someone would help.

 

[Discosally]

It’s so difficult because we all despise him, we know what he has done to his son. What makes me believe he was a good father at some point is all the testimonies from people that knew him, including positive relationships with Arthur’s school and GP, the fact that he always had joint care of Arthur, and SS deemed him fit to have sole care when OLH was imprisoned, if she had concerns that he would abuse Arthur she would have said I think, he was raising him for 11years until her sentence was served . It’s a big step to think that all this time he was plotting cruelty to his son and bidding his time to start abusing. The fact that he started the abuse when he moved in with ET speaks for itself to me.
also, there has been no reference to him using drugs whatsoever, so for the first time ever, I am defending him there, I don’t think he used recreational illegal drugs.

 

[ScottishSam]

It’s so difficult because we all despise him, we know what he has done to his son. What makes me think he was a good father at some point is all the testimonies from people that knew him, including positive relationships with Arthur’s school and GP, the fact that he always had joint care of Arthur, and SS deemed him fit to have sole care when OLH was imprisoned, if she had concerns that he would abuse Arthur she would have said I think. It’s a big step to think that all this time he was plotting cruelty to his son and bidding his time to start abusing. The fact that it he started the abuse when he moved in with ET speaks for itself to me.
also, there has been no reference to him using drugs whatsoever, so for the first time ever, I am defending him there, I don’t think he used recreational illegal drugs.

I agree with you. I can't find any evidence relating to drug use. Yes a mention to alcohol, but not to excess.

 

[Discosally]

It’s so difficult because we all despise him, we know what he has done to his son. What makes me think he was a good father at some point is all the testimonies from people that knew him, including positive relationships with Arthur’s school and GP, the fact that he always had joint care of Arthur, and SS deemed him fit to have sole care when OLH was imprisoned, if she had concerns that he would abuse Arthur she would have said I think. It’s a big step to think that all this time he was plotting cruelty to his son and bidding his time to start abusing. The fact that he started the abuse when he moved in with ET speaks for itself to me.
also, there has been no reference to him using drugs whatsoever, so for the first time ever, I am defending him there, I don’t think he used recreational illegal drugs.

I forgot to add, regardless of why he did it, he still is responsible for his actions and always has been.

 

[JimSteel]

Apart from the long litany of sadistic crimes, another thing I worry Arthur experienced is being made feel guilty and responsible as if he somehow caused and deserved these multiple tortures. This gaslighting can generate self-hate, self-harm, and multiply the tortures.

It sounds tautological but for the reasons above I think a guilty sentence is especially crucial to justice being served in this case. It is they who are guilty and not Arthur.

 

[ScottishSam]

Apart from the long litany of sadistic crimes, another thing I worry Arthur experienced is being made feel guilty and responsible as if he somehow caused and deserved these multiple tortures. This gaslighting can generate self-hate, self-harm, and multiply the tortures.

It sounds tautological but for the reasons above I think a guilty sentence is especially crucial to justice being served in this case. It is they who are guilty and not Arthur.

I'm sure at one point TH self harmed, and showed Arthur the marks and said 'this is what you've done to me'. Can't remember if it was ET or TH who said it, but it was definitely claimed by one of them.
And to his 6 year old mind, he probably did think it was all his fault. The paediatrician who gave evidence said he would be aware his treatment was different, and unfair.

 

[Discosally]

It’s extremely difficult on here because we all have emotion and media reports. Remember that the jurors are instructed to remove all emotion and preconceptions to reach their verdict, they have to reach their verdict solely on the evidence presented to them. They can not let their minds wander and make up their own reasons why a witness would say what they did, if they did do that then it would be grounds for an appeal and that would mean that justice hasn’t prevailed.

 

[ScottishSam]

It’s extremely difficult on here because we all have emotion and media reports. Remember that the jurors are instructed to remove all emotion and preconceptions to reach their verdict, they have to reach their verdict solely on the evidence presented to them. They can not let their minds wander and make up their own reasons why a witness would say what they did, if they did do that then it would be grounds for an appeal and that would mean that justice hasn’t prevailed.

Plus, they've been able to see the body language of the people giving evidence, will know how something was said, and the general demeanour of witnesses.
While we have to go with the court report updates, which briefly summarises large portions of the proceedings.

 

[Discosally]

Plus, they've been able to see the body language of the people giving evidence, will know how something was said, and the general demeanour of witnesses.
While we have to go with the court report updates, which briefly summarises large portions of the proceedings.

Absolutely right. They will also see hesitancy with an answer and facial expressions when questioned or evidence stated. All this is evidence for them to conclude a verdict, we don’t have access to any of this. We have reports written with the impression of the journalist.

 

[Discosally]

Plus, they've been able to see the body language of the people giving evidence, will know how something was said, and the general demeanour of witnesses.
While we have to go with the court report updates, which briefly summarises large portions of the proceedings.

Absolutely right. They will also see hesitancy with an answer and facial expressions when questioned. All this is evidence for them to conclude a verdict, we don’t have access to any of this. We have reports written with the impression of the journalist.

 

[ScottishSam]

Sorry I don’t know why that posted twice!

Mine were doing that yesterday and Friday as well. I blamed it on the weather!

 

[Dotta]

I forgot to add, regardless of why he did it, he still is responsible for his actions and always has been.

Will he ever visit his son's grave?
Will he get on his knees and beg for forgiveness?

 

[Mellowmelly]

Will there be more evidence tomorrow? Or has the jury already been sent out ?

 

[ScottishSam]

Will there be more evidence tomorrow? Or has the jury already been sent out ?

One more defence witness, then closing statements from 3 QCs, basically summing up and reminding the jury of the evidence. The judge will direct the jury on their responsibilities, and then we all wait for the verdict.

 

[ScottishSam]

One more defence witness, then closing statements from 3 QCs, basically summing up and reminding the jury of the evidence. The judge will direct the jury on their responsibilities, and then we all wait for the verdict.

Think Judge Walls said Wednesday is the day the jury will begin deliberating

 

[ChloLo]

You could be right, but speaking from experience, I once witnessed a man physically attacking, I presume his girlfriend. I called the police and was asked to give a statement. I then received a letter, summoning me to court as a witness, the letter stated that if I didn't attend, a warrant would be put out for my arrest, so I had no choice but to attend. That was quite a few years ago now though so I don't know if things have changed since then.

I’ve been the girlfriend in that situation and watched people walk right on past. Nobody wanted to step in.

 

[Dotta]

Think Judge Walls said Wednesday is the day the jury will begin deliberating

I wonder how long it will take for the Jury to deliberate!
Will they discuss both of them together?
Or will they give their verdicts separately, eg: first ET and then TH?
Im beginning to feel anxious!

 

[Mellowmelly]

.

I’ve been the girlfriend in that situation and watched people walk right on past. Nobody wanted to step in.

That must've been terrifying ChloLo, I hope he got what he deserved for doing that to you ? I think the problem is, people dontbwant to get involved because of the fear of being attacked themselves or because as long as it doesn't affect them, then why bother ? When I witnessed the attack, it was from the window of my property, had I been outside, I don't know if I'd have been brave enough to intervene.