UK - Arthur Labinjo Hughes, 6, killed, dad & friend arrested, June 2020 #2

[Carroll520]

I am proud of him, he can be blunt to the point of rudeness though, compared to my Scottish sensibilities!
I also want a fair sentence.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I'm not going to argue because you have yours and I have mine. That's what this forum is for - discussion.

Its great having this forum for discussions isnt it. I would have cracked up otherwise, my hubby wont let me talk about it and its too heavy to chat your friends about. My son Charlie and me light a candle for Arthur every evening. Its the first thing he says when he comes in. He doesnt know how Arthur died but knows he isnt here anymore. I nearly cry when he says his name, the innocence. Lets light a candle for Arthur

 

[Dotta]

I am proud of him, he can be blunt to the point of rudeness though, compared to my Scottish sensibilities!
I also want a fair sentence.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I'm not going to argue because you have yours and I have mine. That's what this forum is for - discussion.

Blunt to the point haha
I love it in a man

 

[ScottishSam]

@Carroll520 , aww bless your wee boy!

Its great having this forum for discussions isnt it. I would have cracked up otherwise, ny hubby wont let me talk about it and its too heavy to chat your friends about. My son Charlie and me light a candle for Arthur every evening. Its the first thing he says when he comes in. He doesnt know how Arthur died but knows he isnt here anymore. I nearly cry when he says his name, the innocence. Lets light a candle of Arthur

That's so sweet, and innocent. Just as they should be.
I'm in the same boat as you, and probably a lot of others. This is my place to talk about how I'm feeling, sometimes angry, sometimes so sad. My hubby refuses to listen because he thinks it's too heavy.
I enjoy the discussions here, it's good to get other people's take on things. Nobody is right or wrong. And I like the fact everyone helps and shares experiences too.

 

[ScottishSam]

Blunt to the point haha
I love it in a man

Occasionally blunt to the point of mortification. He went to see a car once, the guy was like 'I've spent all day valeting it, did a great job'. Hubby opened the door, said 'you've not cleaned it very well, it smells like s***'. Mortified! The guy didn't know where to look, and neither did I

 

[Carroll520]

@Carroll520 , aww bless your wee boy!

That's so sweet, and innocent. Just as they should be.
I'm in the same boat as you, and probably a lot of others. This is my place to talk about how I'm feeling, sometimes angry, sometimes so sad. My hubby refuses to listen because he thinks it's too heavy.
I enjoy the discussions here, it's good to get other people's take on things. Nobody is right or wrong. And I like the fact everyone helps and shares experiences too.

I know, they are so cute and loving.
Its been a great support and outlet having this. Hopefully in the coming days justice will be served

 

[Dotta]

Occasionally blunt to the point of mortification. He went to see a car once, the guy was like 'I've spent all day valeting it, did a great job'. Hubby opened the door, said 'you've not cleaned it very well, it smells like s***'. Mortified! The guy didn't know where to look, and neither did I

I like him even more!!!!

 

[ScottishSam]

I like him even more!!!!

I have tons of these stories. I think I've been embarrassed so many times I've blocked a lot of them out

 

[ScottishSam]

One thing that is really bothering me, is if, Arthur's food was being tainted with salt how would TH not be aware. Arthur surely would of said to TH that it tasted salty or horrible and I would of thought the first thing yd do is try it yourself I know I would. With my kids when they were little If they were refusing to eat something I'd start to eat it and they'd soon decide they wanted it I'm really not convinced at all that he was unaware of this happening

Yes! If I'm eating something my 2 don't like, remarkably they tell me it's their favourite thing in the world! Although they never fall for the broccoli trick.

 

[ScottishSam]

Yes, I can see all that, but I cannot for the life of me understand why he used that language to and about his own son apart from awful threats of violence. He was almost boasting about giving Arthur 'the slap of his life' and worse.

The messages he sent are unforgivable, indefensible and plain disgusting. He can't defend them, I don't believe he only sent them, and then toned down the treatment when he got home. Who pressure points a 6 year old?

 

[JayWill]

Yes! If I'm eating something my 2 don't like, remarkably they tell me it's their favourite thing in the world! Although they never fall for the broccoli trick.

I don't blame them. I hate it too, it is like fur.

 

[Noseyjosie]

I don't blame them. I hate it too, it is like fur.

 

[ScottishSam]

I don't blame them. I hate it too, it is like fur.

Haha! Slightly crunchy, it's delish. I hated it when I was younger too

 

[JayWill]

Haha! Slightly crunchy, it's delish. I hated it when I was younger too

I quite like the stalks sliced and steamed but not the flowery bits. Broccoli was not around when I was a child. I think it is a reasonably modern hybrid.

 

[squish]

I’m concerned that everyone is falling for TH’s nonsense about being gaslit into torturing his own son. How can anyone read the hairdressers testimony about Arthur screaming while TH pressure pointed him and still think that. TH himself said he took all his frustrations out on his son, because he couldn’t hit ET or her kids.

He was not a good dad. Ever. When he was described as a good dad, it was when he was a part-time dad. Initially, Arthur’s mum took care of him, then when TH had him after she was jailed, he was living with his parents and brother, who provided plenty of support.

Lockdown with ET was the first time TH actually had to be a dad all by himself, as ET was unsupportive and hostile. He couldn’t stand the responsibility and pressure, and wanted Arthur to be still, silent, not move, not need any basic bodily functions or personal care.

No doubt Arthur was traumatised after losing his mum and witnessing some of her violence (this was in her own court case), yet TH wasn’t even prepared for ordinary parenting, let alone the therapeutic parenting that Arthur would have needed.

My impression from the statements and testimony is that, although ET inflicted the fatal assault, TH was the main physical abuser. ET would b!tch about Arthur, and the dynamic was all about look what daddy’s going to do when he gets home. TH relished in his role as the one who would come home and really show his son who was boss.

His quotes (from the texts, and witness statements) towards Arthur seem to contain far more frequent death threats and violence than ET’s do. ETs quotes are primarily vicious griping and insults, with occasional violence, whereas TH’s are almost all severely violent.

Most tellingly, from what has been released so far, Arthur himself repeatedly expresssd concerns that his dad would kill him, not ET. Arthur was worried his dad would kill him as early as the end of 2019.

I am reminded of Karla Homolka, who successfully convinced everyone that she was just a vulnerable, abused young woman, who was manipulated and abused into going along with her serial killer husband’s rapes and murders (including that of Karla’s teenage sister). After she had convinced everyone of this, got a substantially reduced sentence and was immune from further consequences, video evidence emerged that Karla was in fact an active participant in the crimes, and enjoyed every moment of it.

I am deeply concerned that TH is successfully pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes using very similar tactics.

 

[Tangled Spaghetti]

This is how ET changed TH’s character:

Narcissists Use Trauma Bonding and Intermittent Reinforcement To Get You Addicted To Them: Why Abuse Survivors Stay

This paragraph is particularly telling, consider that TH took his behaviour towards Arthur to their most extreme extent imaginable without being the one to deal the fatal blows :

You are willing to lower your standards time and time again for this toxic person, accepting what you previously believed was unacceptable.

You change your own behaviors, appearance and/or personality in an attempt to meet the abuser’s moving goal posts, although the abuser rarely changes their own behavior to please you.

I think he may well have been a good Dad before. I understand people can be manipulated and he lost his confidence after Olivia and during lockdown too. So was easily led etc but i just dont understand at all how he did such a complete change of character, he didnt show any feeling or care towards his own son Arthur. We are all traumatised after seeing that cctv, TH saw him like that and made him call him sir that day, made him stand against a door, pulled him by the scruff of neck, verbally abused him, didnt pick him up when he fell getting into car. Its unforgiveable, manipilated or not.

the comple

 

[Carroll520]

I’m concerned that everyone is falling for TH’s nonsense about being gaslit into torturing his own son. How can anyone read the hairdressers testimony about Arthur screaming while TH pressure pointed him and still think that. TH himself said he took all his frustrations out on his son, because he couldn’t hit ET or her kids.

He was not a good dad. Ever. When he was described as a good dad, it was when he was a part-time dad. Initially, Arthur’s mum took care of him, then when TH had him after she was jailed, he was living with his parents and brother, who provided plenty of support.

Lockdown with ET was the first time TH actually had to be a dad all by himself, as ET was unsupportive and hostile. He couldn’t stand the responsibility and pressure, and wanted Arthur to be still, silent, not move, not need any basic bodily functions or personal care.

No doubt Arthur was traumatised after losing his mum and witnessing some of her violence (this was in her own court case), yet TH wasn’t even prepared for ordinary parenting, let alone the therapeutic parenting that Arthur would have needed.

My impression from the statements and testimony is that, although ET inflicted the fatal assault, TH was the main physical abuser. ET would b!tch about Arthur, and the dynamic was all about look what daddy’s going to do when he gets home. TH relished in his role as the one who would come home and really show his son who was boss.

His quotes (from the texts, and witness statements) towards Arthur seem to contain far more frequent death threats and violence than ET’s do. ETs quotes are primarily vicious griping and insults, with occasional violence, whereas TH’s are almost all severely violent.

Most tellingly, from what has been released so far, Arthur himself repeatedly expresssd concerns that his dad would kill him, not ET. Arthur was worried his dad would kill him as early as the end of 2019.

I am reminded of Karla Homolka, who successfully convinced everyone that she was just a vulnerable, abused young woman, who was manipulated and abused into going along with her serial killer husband’s rapes and murders (including that of Karla’s teenage sister). After she had convinced everyone of this, got a substantially reduced sentence and was immune from further consequences, video evidence emerged that Karla was in fact an active participant in the crimes, and enjoyed every moment of it.

I am deeply concerned that TH is successfully pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes using very similar tactics.

Yeah the manipulated card is not enough for me, maybe the thinking step you could be persuaded to use, by a more experienced parent but nothing else, everything else was totally evil monsterous behaviour that he cant blame anyone but himself for

 

[ScottishSam]

Yeah the manipulated card is not enough for me, maybe the thinking step you could be persuaded to use, by a more experienced parent but nothing else, everything else was totally evil monsterous behaviour that he cant blame anyone but himself for

I'm not defending him. As I've said previously he could have walked away, he could have put his foot down and said 'no' to the isolation. He could have said 'I'll cook for Arthur', or 'I'm taking my son out to spend some time with him'. He did none of these things.
But I 100% believe, as @Tangled Spaghetti has posted a link for, that he is also a victim. Not in the same way as Arthur, and for however long he has left to live he's got to live with the fact that he has contributed massively to his child's death.

 

[Tinksx]

Would she be allowed to?
Probably not in person, but maybe via video link - but are prisoners allowed to give evidence in a trial that isn’t theirs?

I would think she would be allowed to. We already know that she applied to the family courts for access to Arthur, which is how cafcass became involved. That would have required one hearing in a family court, it would’ve been via video link. I think, considering this case is about the murder of her son, she would be allowed because even though she is a convict, she doesn’t lose her human rights. There’s a big act for that and as we know, I am rubbish with the acts and legislation part so @ChloLo would probably be better placed for that. Lastly, she wouldn’t be giving evidence per see, she would be a character witness. So she would be best placed to give an insight into TH as a partner as well as a father. A problem that may arise from that is that, she is a prisoner. Jurors could make inferences that she is “untrustworthy” “unlawful” “murderer herself”. Although if she was a witness for TH, her telling the courts that TH was mild mannered/amazing with Arthur/loving to them both, as the mother of the child murdered, it might throw some weight behind the whole “ET is the catalyst”. It’s all just speculation at present

 

[ScottishSam]

@Tangled Spaghetti
'You might refuse to press charges against your abuser or defend them against family members or friends who try to tell you that they are toxic.'
And this one too. Pushing his family away, and admitting to police it was all on him. That ET had too much love to give.
Once he was out of the situation he was able to see what his family saw, and the medical evidence about the salt. I've no doubt ET was physically abusing Arthur too. He flinched when he walked past her, and she's now admitted on the stand that she wished to plead guilty to another count of child cruelty. So that's 2 now. Interestingly, she's only admitted to the cruelty caught on the camera

 

[Tinksx]

I'm not defending him. As I've said previously he could have walked away, he could have put his foot down and said 'no' to the isolation. He could have said 'I'll cook for Arthur', or 'I'm taking my son out to spend some time with him'. He did none of these things.
But I 100% believe, as @Tangled Spaghetti has posted a link for, that he is also a victim. Not in the same way as Arthur, and for however long he has left to live he's got to live with the fact that he has contributed massively to his child's death.

I think there was mention of TH attempting to take over Arthur’s food but ET said “my food not good enough?” Or words to that affect. Also some massive issue with TH getting takeaways for Arthur as it was a “treat” and he didn’t deserve a treat for his behaviour. Again, this will probably be half a mile down the BL thread. If my phone ever complies, I’ll have a look for it