UK - Arthur Labinjo Hughes, 6, killed, dad & friend arrested, June 2020 #2

[Carroll520]

I don’t doubt she suffered with depression to be honest, I’d imagine to attempt suicide in a the way that she did, was a concentrated effort. And not just a cry for help. I don’t doubt the depression at all, she must have suffered badly from it. I wasn’t aware she said that about Arthur and not letting him leave for not wanting to be alone? I’ll be honest, the house full of horrors she lived in, was all of her construction. MOO.

A 6 storey car park is a real attempt, no messing around there. Yeah i defos believe she suffers with bad depression and anxiety, she doesnt sound like a person who left the house much, but everywhere was in lockdown so its hard to know.
I was quite taken a back by her saying that she had a fear of being alone so it was one of the reasons for keeping Arthur there, as I supppose she would loose TH with Arthur gone. God id love a 3rd party psychologist to do an evaluation of her.

 

[Carroll520]

A 6 storey car park is a real attempt, no messing around there. Yeah i defos believe she suffers with bad depression and anxiety, she doesnt sound like a person who left the house must, but everywhere was in lockdown so its hard to know.
I was quite taken a back by her saying that she had a fear of being alone so it was one of the reasons for keeping Arthur there, as I supppose she would loose TH with Arthur gone. God id love a 3rd party psychologist to do an evaluation of her.

Totally agree that the house of horrors was her making....100%

 

[squish]

I just want to say, regarding my earlier post that I am concerned TH is pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes and convincing people he was abused by his girlfriend into torturing his son for months on end. By “everyone” I meant the court and the general public. I was not being disrespectful towards people with different opinions to mine on this discussion forum.

I just don’t think there is any credible evidence that ET abused TH. All such “evidence” has come from the testimonies of TH himself and his family, who obviously have a vested interest in shifting as much blame as possible away from TH. His family probably have a desperate emotional need to believe it’s all ET’s fault.

It’s worth baring in mind that ET is a much more “vulnerable” person than TH is. She has a diagnosed and fairly significant mental health condition; has previously made a serious suicide attempt; has had her eldest children taken away; and comes from a much more deprived background than TH does. Additionally, being a man, and having practiced MMA, TH could not have easily been intimidated by her.

I acknowledge that the speculation is that ET’s alleged abuse of TH was emotional; that vulnerable people are capable of abuse; and that her personality disorder would make her prone to being manipulative. I just think it’s worth baring in mind that TH actually has no such characteristics that would make him vulnerable. It’s possible, but I really don’t think it’s realistic that he was abused by ET. Unless he’s counting following his own libido as him being “manipulated”.

 

[Tinksx]

A 6 storey car park is a real attempt, no messing around there. Yeah i defos believe she suffers with bad depression and anxiety, she doesnt sound like a person who left the house must, but everywhere was in lockdown so its hard to know.
I was quite taken a back by her saying that she had a fear of being alone so it was one of the reasons for keeping Arthur there, as I supppose she would loose TH with Arthur gone. God id love a 3rd party psychologist to do an evaluation of her.

Without question, her suicide attempt was concentrated. This was not a cry for help. I don’t doubt for a second that she struggled with her mental health, and in a big way. She managed to leave the house for her hair, we must remember that, as affy and JT witness testimonies were very insightful. But you’re right, it was lockdown. I honestly don’t remember her saying she didn’t let Arthur go anywhere for fear of being alone. I only remember her saying Arthur couldn’t go back to grandparents because Then Arthur “would win”. I’m not going to ask you to find it on BL thread as that is the longest thread going and causes a lot our devices to freeze and/or refresh. BL thread is informative but such a pain in the bum for scrolling back haha!

 

[Dotta]

I just want to say, regarding my earlier post that I am concerned TH is pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes and convincing people he was abused by his girlfriend into torturing his son for months on end. By “everyone” I meant the court and the general public. I was not being disrespectful towards people with different opinions to mine on this discussion forum.

I just don’t think there is any credible evidence that ET abused TH. All such “evidence” has come from the testimonies of TH himself and his family, who obviously have a vested interest in shifting as much blame as possible away from TH. His family probably have a desperate emotional need to believe it’s all ET’s fault.

It’s worth baring in mind that ET is a much more “vulnerable” person than TH is. She has a diagnosed and fairly significant mental health condition; has previously made a serious suicide attempt; has had her eldest children taken away; and comes from a much more deprived background than TH does. Additionally, being a man, and having practiced MMA, TH could not have easily been intimidated by her.

I acknowledge that the speculation is that ET’s alleged abuse of TH was emotional; that vulnerable people are capable of abuse; and that her personality disorder would make her prone to being manipulative. I just think it’s worth baring in mind that TH actually has no such characteristics that would make him vulnerable. It’s possible, but I really don’t think it’s realistic that he was abused by ET. Unless he’s counting following his own libido as him being “manipulated”.

Not to mention him making a hole in the wall and destroying a door!!!
It is a council house - who is going to pay for repairs?
Taxpayers?

 

[Carroll520]

Without question, her suicide attempt was concentrated. This was not a cry for help. I don’t doubt for a second that she struggled with her mental health, and in a big way. She managed to leave the house for her hair, we must remember that, as affy and JT witness testimonies were very insightful. But you’re right, it was lockdown. I honestly don’t remember her saying she didn’t let Arthur go anywhere for fear of being alone. I only remember her saying Arthur couldn’t go back to grandparents because Then Arthur “would win”. I’m not going to ask you to find it on BL thread as that is the longest thread going and causes a lot our devices to freeze and/or refresh. BL thread is informative but such a pain in the bum for scrolling back haha!

I know, i dont have the heart to look through it tonight to find it but i will another time. It kind of stuck in my head as i found it so strange that she would rather live in a horrible evil way abusing a child than to be alone

 

[ScottishSam]

I just want to say, regarding my earlier post that I am concerned TH is pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes and convincing people he was abused by his girlfriend into torturing his son for months on end. By “everyone” I meant the court and the general public. I was not being disrespectful towards people with different opinions to mine on this discussion forum.

I just don’t think there is any credible evidence that ET abused TH. All such “evidence” has come from the testimonies of TH himself and his family, who obviously have a vested interest in shifting as much blame as possible away from TH. His family probably have a desperate emotional need to believe it’s all ET’s fault.

It’s worth baring in mind that ET is a much more “vulnerable” person than TH is. She has a diagnosed and fairly significant mental health condition; has previously made a serious suicide attempt; has had her eldest children taken away; and comes from a much more deprived background than TH does. Additionally, being a man, and having practiced MMA, TH could not have easily been intimidated by her.

I acknowledge that the speculation is that ET’s alleged abuse of TH was emotional; that vulnerable people are capable of abuse; and that her personality disorder would make her prone to being manipulative. I just think it’s worth baring in mind that TH actually has no such characteristics that would make him vulnerable. It’s possible, but I really don’t think it’s realistic that he was abused by ET. Unless he’s counting following his own libido as him being “manipulated”.

I'd argue that TH was vulnerable. I don't believe his family have a vested interest in getting him off with this. His mother and brother both said he struggled academically, lacked confidence in himself and if one person told him he'd not done well, despite 10 telling him he had done well, he'd believe the negative opinion. Blake has said he did not go to court to rescue his brother, and hasn't spoken to him since Arthur died. It was also THs family who reported the bruise.

We are all well aware what TH has done to Arthur, I dont think anyone doubts his behaviour was despicable. I see nobody on this thread who has had the wool pulled over their eyes. I do see a lot of people trying to work out the angles though. Nothing is ever black and white, it's the grey in between that we are all exploring.

How do you know ET has a significant MH problem? Where has that been reported? Without reading her psych file none of us will ever be privy to that information. She has stated she has, but that information has not been released. I know plenty of people who claim to have MH issues, yet have never been officially diagnosed.

Where does it say TH practiced MMA? His brother did - the one ET accused of flirting with her.

Both ETs witnesses have a vested interest in presenting her in the best light- the mother and step father who couldn't decide who called SS - him or his wife. They also have a desperate desire to downplay her part in this. And that call wasn't logged. So there is no evidence it was made. Shane, her ex who described her as a paragon of virtue. Both have a vested interest in protecting her. Otherwise, they have been complicit in witnessing the abuse of a 6 year old boy, and did nothing. Arthur sat for hours in their home, staring at the wall. Like a zombie. How do these people sound to you?

And while we're here. Do you expect me to believe that a grown woman allowed a child to be treated like this in her home, without reporting it? How does that paint ET to you? What type of person would sleep with, and conceive a child with a man who was capable of treating his own son so cruelly. Wouldn't you worry how your unborn child would be treated? And wouldn't your first concern be for protecting the little boy you have taken responsibility for?
She had plenty of opportunities to help Arthur when she had TH running errands for her, and didn't. Lets not pretend that she isn't as guilty as he is.

I also come from a deprived background. I am now a professional, homeowner, aiming for a second degree. I don't see what her background has to do with any of this.

 

[ChloLo]

I think until you’ve been on the receiving end of emotional abuse, it’s hard to understand and recognise the signs. But the family alienation, abusers isolate their victims, the bombardment of texts, the is “my food not good enough?” Are all signs of emotional abuse. TH has also been abusive to ET telling her to kill herself. But victims can become reactively abusive. It’s upto the jury to decide whether they believe TH or not.

 

[Tinksx]

I just want to say, regarding my earlier post that I am concerned TH is pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes and convincing people he was abused by his girlfriend into torturing his son for months on end. By “everyone” I meant the court and the general public. I was not being disrespectful towards people with different opinions to mine on this discussion forum.

I just don’t think there is any credible evidence that ET abused TH. All such “evidence” has come from the testimonies of TH himself and his family, who obviously have a vested interest in shifting as much blame as possible away from TH. His family probably have a desperate emotional need to believe it’s all ET’s fault.

It’s worth baring in mind that ET is a much more “vulnerable” person than TH is. She has a diagnosed and fairly significant mental health condition; has previously made a serious suicide attempt; has had her eldest children taken away; and comes from a much more deprived background than TH does. Additionally, being a man, and having practiced MMA, TH could not have easily been intimidated by her.

I acknowledge that the speculation is that ET’s alleged abuse of TH was emotional; that vulnerable people are capable of abuse; and that her personality disorder would make her prone to being manipulative. I just think it’s worth baring in mind that TH actually has no such characteristics that would make him vulnerable. It’s possible, but I really don’t think it’s realistic that he was abused by ET. Unless he’s counting following his own libido as him being “manipulated”.

<modsnip>

I’m only going off of what was said at trial and that was TH family believed ET was manipulative and controlling before TH moved in with her. That TH mum took a dislike to ET leaving her children to spend time at JH home. That the brother took a dislike for ET bragging about her sons abilities and downplayed Arthur’s (regarding boxing). Playing one off against the other. The issue with toys being too loud.

We need to remember that TH own mother is a prosecution witness, as well as one of TH brothers, neither are defence witnesses. As in, neither are defending TH.

We have been told ET called SH to come and attack TH. That’s clear intimidation. That was confirmed by all participants (minor discrepancies regarding the end result). So we then have that TH is intimidated/controlled. Proven.

We have Dutton (stepfather ET) willing to lie on the stand for ET. In regards to an SS call. Not a prosecution witness but a defence witness. Why not a prosecution witness if he had witnessed this treatment?

I’m also basing my opinion off (limited albeit) ETs demeanour on the stand. She still blames Arthur for his own death… she also stated “TH is not that special”, doesn’t sound like a woman doubting her own self worth IMO.

You also stated previously that neighbours had called in SS repeatedly, yet the neighbour on the stand stated they had no cooncerns.

I’d like to have the same opinion as you, but I don’t. ET is no victim, and if she is, its only at her hands.

 

[Carroll520]

I think until you’ve been on the receiving end of emotional abuse, it’s hard to understand and recognise the signs. But the family alienation, abusers isolate their victims, the bombardment of texts, the is “my food not good enough?” Are all signs of emotional abuse. TH has also been abusive to ET telling her to kill herself. But victims can become reactively abusive. It’s upto the jury to decide whether they believe TH or not.

I think he probably was emotionally abused by her and he emotionally abused her too. But you could be emotionally abused until the cows come home and still never abuse your son in such horrific ways

 

[Tinksx]

Not to mention him making a hole in the wall and destroying a door!!!
It is a council house - who is going to pay for repairs?
Taxpayers?

It would come out of the deposit. If there was no deposit, they would have been charged with repairs. Whoever is on the tenancy will have to still pay, whether they are in prison or not. It’s just that the council may have to wait a while for the entire payment to be paid. They will Still be liable for it though

ETA - spelling again!!

 

[Dotta]

New book reveals how leaving a narcissist can be harder than breaking a drug addiction | Daily Mail Online

 

[ScottishSam]

Dotta, in my circles we call that tabloid the Daily Fail. Much better and more accurate sources can be found by using the reference they should have provided.
Thanks for the link

 

[Carroll520]

New book reveals how leaving a narcissist can be harder than breaking a drug addiction | Daily Mail Online

Its like it was written about ET

"He says that having children can often be a struggle for a narcissist because their partner's undivided attention is no longer on them, often causing them to lash out and show their 'true colours"

 

[Carroll520]

New book reveals how leaving a narcissist can be harder than breaking a drug addiction | Daily Mail Online

Its like it was written about ET

"He says that having children can often be a struggle for a narcissist because their partner's undivided attention is no longer on them, often causing them to lash out and show their 'true colours"

 

[Dotta]

Its like it was written about ET

"He says that having children can often be a struggle for a narcissist because their partner's undivided attention is no longer on them, often causing them to lash out and show their 'true colours"

Yes, that is why I sent the link.

 

[Carroll520]

Yes, that is why I sent the link.

So many similarities. Shes defos NPD (in my non professional opinion! ) with a big sprinkling of psychopathy

 

[ScottishSam]

Im a foreigner, what do I know about British Press?

You might prefer The Guardian, The Independent, The Atlantic is good too but only gives 3 articles a month, and is American. There's tons, use the Daily Fail as a last resort.

 

[squish]

I'd argue that TH was vulnerable. I don't believe his family have a vested interest in getting him off with this. His mother and brother both said he struggled academically, lacked confidence in himself and if one person told him he'd not done well, despite 10 telling him he had done well, he'd believe the negative opinion. Blake has said he did not go to court to rescue his brother, and hasn't spoken to him since Arthur died. It was also THs family who reported the bruise.

I don’t think that counts as vulnerable. I am not trusting the family’s testimony; it’s not that I think they want him to get away with it, it’s that as I said, they will understandably have a desperate need to believe it was all ET’s fault. They have already lost their grandson/nephew in the most horrific way, it would be hard to cope with the idea that it was their son/brother’s fault.

We are all well aware what TH has done to Arthur, I dont think anyone doubts his behaviour was despicable. I see nobody on this thread who has had the wool pulled over their eyes. I do see a lot of people trying to work out the angles though. Nothing is ever black and white, it's the grey in between that we are all exploring.

As I said, I was concerned with the court and the public having the wool pulled over their eyes. I’m not referring to members if this discussion forum.

How do you know ET has a significant MH problem? Where has that been reported? Without reading her psych file none of us will ever be privy to that information. She has stated she has, but that information has not been released. I know plenty of people who claim to have MH issues, yet have never been officially diagnosed.

She said so herself in court that she has a personality disorder, it would be dangerous for her to lie about something like that in a murder trial. Also the public are not sympathetic to personality disorders, if she was going to lie, there are much better conditions to lie about having.

Where does it say TH practiced MMA? His brother did - the one ET accused of flirting with her.

Yes. I don’t see why the brother would lie about it. It’s really not important.

Both ETs witnesses have a vested interest in presenting her in the best light- the mother and step father who couldn't decide who called SS - him or his wife. They also have a desperate desire to downplay her part in this. And that call wasn't logged. So there is no evidence it was made. Shane, her ex who described her as a paragon of virtue. Both have a vested interest in protecting her. Otherwise, they have been complicit in witnessing the abuse of a 6 year old boy, and did nothing. Arthur sat for hours in their home, staring at the wall. Like a zombie. How do these people sound to you?

<modsnip>

To be clear, I think ET and TH are as evil as each other. They are both horrific child abusers. I just don’t think there is any evidence whatsoever that ET abused TH (or vice versa for that matter).

Both of their families will have a desperate desire to blame the person. This is to be expected, but it seems that while ET’s associates’ attempts to make her look less culpable are rightly not being taken seriously. TH’s associates and TH himself trying to make himself look like a victim are being seen as credible, despite all evidence pointing to the contrary.

<modsnip>

She had plenty of opportunities to help Arthur when she had TH running errands for her, and didn't. Lets not pretend that she isn't as guilty as he is.

I am NOT “pretending” that ET is less guilty. I am pointing out that TH is just as culpable as she is. I am pointing out the reasons why TH is not likely to be a victim.

I also come from a deprived background. I am now a professional, homeowner, aiming for a second degree. I don't see what her background has to do with any of this.

The point is the power dynamic between herself and TH. She comes from an under-privileged background, he does not.

 

[ChloLo]

I have worked with and had personal experience with narcissists. I know enough already.