Found Alive UK - Ashya King, 5, Southampton, 28 Aug 2015

[bflocket]

The police are trying to explain why this turned into such a big deal...

Police have rejected criticism of their search for a five-year-old boy with a brain tumour removed from a UK hospital by his parents against medical advice.

His father Brett King defended his actions in a video posted on YouTube, saying there had been a "ridiculous chase".

Mr King said the couple had "pleaded" with Southampton General Hospital for Ashya to receive the treatment, but were told it would have "no benefit whatsoever".

Ashya's paternal grandmother, Patricia King, told the BBC she thought the five-year-old would be better off staying in Spain.

She said she was "very, very angry" at the way the investigation had been handled, saying: "It has been taken too far - much too far," with Ashya now separated from his parents following their arrest.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-29003431


Whether the doctors thought another approach would have been futile or not, they should not make the decisions for the little guy.

The parents had apparently done enough research to know that they wanted to try the proton-beam therapy. Whether it would help him or not, it was a better option than the "nothing" that the doctors suggested.

Ashya didn't have a sinus infection. His parents didn't want the doctor to try a different antibiotic. What he has is much worse and the treatment is much more complicated than changing a drug or the like. The family is trying to keep him from DYING.

I don't understand why the doctors would not go along with the therapy his parents suggested. The proton therapy is likely expensive. I don't know the family's financial situation, but "cost" seems like it might be the reason the doctors balked at it.

For them to involve the police and criminalize the parents' actions is asinine. They wanted a true medical procedure for him, not a "faith healing" or herbal therapy or something completely off-the-wall. It may not be easily available, but it is around. The family should be ALLOWED to seek it out where it is available.

In December 2011, the UK Department of Health said that proton therapy will be made available for patients in London and Manchester from 2018

They were trying to help their gravely ill child. Now they're in jail??
I thought something like that would only happen in the USA (i.e. "government" knowing what's best for your kid, whether you agree or not).

 

[ZaZara]

Hmmmm .....

(from ZaZara's link ^^)

"My understanding is that Ashya was not formally discharged from hospital by his parents. They would not have signed forms to absolve the hospital of further responsibility for his care.
So the hospital authorities were in an awkward limbo where their paperwork suggested they remained responsible for Ashya’s care, but did not have him in on their premises.

Given this scenario (or similar), they called on the police to get him back. "

Hmmm.... if the paperwork is at the core of the problem, then the hospital can send it over to Spain for the parents to sign.
Hardly a cause for having them locked up or extradited.


Ashya's grandmother is being interviewed by SkyNews as I write, but I have no access to the live stream from here.

 

[ZaZara]

Listen to this:

Ashya's Grandmother:


"Well, my flat has been searched. Police came with a warrant ...."


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29004457


Grandmother's anger and worry over Ashya events

31 August 2014 Last updated at 15:56 BST

The grandmother of Ashya King has spoken out about the latest developments since Ashya's parents decided to take the five-year-old out of hospital in Southampton and travel abroad.

Patricia King, mother of Brett King, said the police had "gone over the top".

Mrs King was speaking to the BBC's Ben Moore.


BBM

 

[Supernovae]

NB. Strictly speaking, the UK has no official secret courts.
However, in the case of for instance minors and the alledged desire to protect them, the courts have draconic powers.
They can rule to withhold the name of the child, they can stop parents from seeking publicity or speaking to journalists, they can forbid journalists to publish the story, they can forbid any form of contact between parents and children. In the UK, a mother was jailed because she waved to her child when they happened to meet in the street.
A British court could decide anything about Ashya King and the public would not be informed about it at all.

Regarding your link, it should be noted that Christopher Booker lies and demonstrably so:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2011/oct/13/christopher-booker

Take this recent case he wrote about an elderly woman who was subject of proceedings in the Court of Protection over her care arrangements:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/e...es-of-the-mysterious-Court-of-Protection.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/e...a-94-year-old-without-savings-or-dignity.html

Here are the relevant judgements that Christopher Booker would have had access to when writing those articles:

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCOP/2014/485.html

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCOP/2014/959.html

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWCOP/2014/1361.html

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCOP/2014/17.html

Does anyone think that CB honestly represents the issues involved?

The other recent example was his reportage on the case of Alessandra Pacchieri, who he said social services had obtained an order for a caesarean for in order to remove her child into care after she was sectioned for 5 weeks for "something of a panic attack" (red flag: you don't get sectioned for 5 weeks for having a panic attack). In fact she had had a psychotic episode as a result of a bipolar disorder, the application for the court order for caesarean was by the NHS Trust not the Local Authority and was due to the obstetric risks from he previous caesareans:

http://www.headoflegal.com/2013/12/...sarian-case-a-masterclass-in-flat-earth-news/

Her own court appointed solicitor couldn't recognise the case from the reportage:

https://twitter.com/DavidLockQC/status/409631200345460736

Generally if you read something by Booker it's wise to start from the assumption that it's false or at least heavily misleading.

 

[necco]

I have several friends with medically fragile children. More than one was told their child would die and to give up hope. One was told their child was brain dead. The child is now an honor student. Another was told their child would never be more than a lump and should be aborted. That child now runs, plays, communicates and feeds herself. I could go on and on. Doctors work on statistics. Parents work on sheer determination.

I also know people who have had horrible care at the hands of the NHS in the UK.

I'm with the family on this one.

 

[Supernovae]

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the parents' underlying dispute with the hospital over the care plan, at the point where they disappeared not long after an operation, and the hospital had no idea where they were and whether they were providing appropriate nursing care, it's hard to see that they could have just waved their hands and said "well, wherever he is he's probably fine." From comments from people with knowledge on the Hampshire Constabulary FB page, it seems that the issue with the feeding pump is more complicated than whether they could continue to power it, or feed him manually if it failed. Apparently any change in feeding pattern could have lead to complications, and the feeding tube has to be checked regularly to check that it hasn't migrated and if it has it could lead to him aspirating the feed. Whether it was appropriate for them to switch care is a separate question to whether they went about it in a sensible way.

 

[SCHMAE]

What a clusterF story! I'm so glad he's found and safe and I so pray little one will get the needed treatment! Be well little angel !

 

[Xina_Marie]

I have several friends with medically fragile children. More than one was told their child would die and to give up hope. One was told their child was brain dead. The child is now an honor student. Another was told their child would never be more than a lump and should be aborted. That child now runs, plays, communicates and feeds herself. I could go on and on. Doctors work on statistics. Parents work on sheer determination.

Yes, this. A thousand times this! Never give up hope or let a medical professional's word be the end of the matter. Science is not absolute. Especially when dealing with the human body and mind. My daughter has overcome so many things that I was told by doctors she would not be able to do. She came home on 9 medications (which I administered myself, hourly, around the clock, with food without food, etc. -- thyroid medication, 3 diuretics, potassium chloride, Prilosec, a vasco dilator to name a few). Today she is on none. She was on a high level of oxygen daily for two years. I managed her breathing, her suctioning, her feeding her meds and all of her doctor's appointments. Today she walks, she communicates with us, she smiles, she loves us and gives us so much joy! She has lots of challenges, but she is determined and works very hard every day. She is happy and she makes us happy. We cannot imagine our lives without her in it!

Parents are the best advocate for their children. If you know something with all of your heart, don't let anyone else pooh-pooh you and dismiss you. You ask as many questions as it takes to satisfy you. Ask as many different experts as it takes to satisfy you. I was with my child every day from the time she was born to Day 330 when she was finally released from the hospital. I knew every drug she took, how much, when she got it, the best position to put her, I could eyeball her diapers and tell you how many mL of fluid were in them before they were weighed. I kept the doctors and nurses on their toes. I caught mistakes and helped new nurses understand my baby and her needs. I am not extraordinary, I am Amelia's mommy. And she deserves the best shot at life she can have. She cannot fend for herself. That is my role and I make no apologies for her or for myself in my quest to make her the best kid she can be.

So excuse me, but I am not buying for one minute that these obviously very involved and caring parents can't feed their child because the feeding regime was too difficult. Feeding was one of the least challenging aspects of her care and she was also in danger of aspiration. Thicken feeds, fed over a certain period of time, reflux drugs, certain position to be fed in. Good gravy, it isn't rocket science. If you are paying any attention in the hospital to your child's care at all, you can get it figured out in a day or so.

This is obviously very personal to me and I am getting very worked up over it. So sorry if my language and bluntness is offensive to anyone. I think the world of medically fragile children is often shrouded in mystery. People are afraid to ask and many moms of these kids are easily offended by questions and stares. But I use situations as an opportunity to educate, educate, educate. /mamabear

 

[Supernovae]

Didn't see this posted anywhere, Ashya was first diagnosed 40 days ago on July 22.

I'm just flagging this up, because it emphasises that they're very new to this world. From what I understand his disability came about as a result of his operation, so he would have been on the pump feed for an even shorter time period than that. If he wasn't intended for full time discharge immediately then they may not have been given the training on things like the feeding mechanism (yet). I don't think it's safe to assume, and more importantly it wouldn't have been safe for the police and the hospital to assume that they'd picked up the necessary skills by osmosis, and even if they'd got the basic idea from observation they may have missed some subtle but important detail.

 

[ZaZara]

PARENTS ARRIVE AT THE COURTHOUSE IN VÉLEZ MÁLAG HANDCUFFED


Shocking video of the parents handcuffed to one another at this link:
http://www.atlas-news.com/agencia-i...itanicos-nino-tumor_cerebral_3_583771633.html

Translation:

The parents of Ashya King have arrived at the Court of Vélez Málaga, where they should give evidence for pulling their son, sick with a brain tumor, from the hospital without medical permission . Last Thursday, Ashya parents fled with him from the United Kingdom and, along with their six children, went to Málaga. On Saturday night, the police arrested the couple after being warned by the workers of a guesthouse in Málaga where they intended to stay. The child was transferred to the Maternity Hospital of Málaga and is stable.

BBM

As we know, the parents did not need medical permission and the hospital or the doctors have no legal authority over the child.
I do hope the Kings have a good lawyer, because if they are going to be extradited on the assumption that the permission of the hospital was needed, this does not look good.

Screenshot - not the best view, but still good enough :-(

 

[Xina_Marie]

I'm just flagging this up, because it emphasises that they're very new to this world. From what I understand his disability came about as a result of his operation, so he would have been on the pump feed for an even shorter time period than that. If he wasn't intended for full time discharge immediately then they may not have been given the training on things like the feeding mechanism (yet). I don't think it's safe to assume, and more importantly it wouldn't have been safe for the police and the hospital to assume that they'd picked up the necessary skills by osmosis, and even if they'd got the basic idea from observation they may have missed some subtle but important detail.

I concede your point that this is a new game to them, but I think if we were to analyze this situation when it is all said and done that the crux of the matter is that there was some sort of communication between the hospital and the parents that promoted this dramatic situation to occur. One in which the parents felt they had no choice but to do something rash and unadvised (from the hospital's perspective) because the parents felt backed into a corner. I think they were frightened of not having access to their child and having the ability to make decisions for him taken away. This is my interpretation of the situation.

I think a similar thing happened in the Justina case here in the US (CT/MA). Maybe things could have been rationally discussed, but when it seems like time is running out and no one is listening to you and you are being told you may not have access to your child if you don't go along with a plan you don't agree with (and I know I felt like I was in a pressure cooker constantly when having to sign off or not sign off on procedures for my daughter with limited information and limited time) they became desperate. The whole thing is horrible and could have been avoided and needs to be taken as a case study on how to handle such situations in the future. I would love to extend my comments beyond this, but I don't want to get into a political debate. Right now the focus should be on the treatment of this precious boy.

There is so much guilt and stress on a parent to make all the right choices and all the right moves. This is your precious child. They are a person and you love them. You only get one shot to make the best choices when life and death is at stake. They are depending on you. The enormity of the situation is very heavy. The stress and emotion is very raw. I lost 15 pounds over the course of 11 months forgetting to eat, not sleeping, sick with worry that when the phone rang at night it would be the hospital calling to tell me that she had taken a turn for the worse. The worry consumes you and your life stand still. You question all your decisions, you bargain with God, you pretend it isn't happening to you, but you know that is. It is hell. And no matter how caring the doctors and nurses, they go home at night free of the burden you carry.

 

[katydid23]

Are the handcuffs really necessary?

It is not like this family is trying to IGNORE their child's medical issues. This is a big mess but I don't think they should be viewed as criminals. They did not turn their back on the medical establishment and run to faith healers. They just did their own research and wanted to try a MEDICAL treatment that might save their precious child's life. jmo :cow:

 

[ZaZara]

Brother Naveed has posted a new video about Ashya and all that the family did for him

Family bought the same food for Ashya as in the hospital, they bought a charger for the feeding equipment and so on. Naveed shows it all.
Contrary to what was mentiond in the press Ashya was taken and the parents were arrested, moments after the de video with the father was made.
They were not in the car, but in the room of the hotel were all children of the family were staying.

Naveed urges viewers to follow his channel for first hand info.


[video=youtu;vYSKyY12LEg]http://youtu.be/vYSKyY12LEg[/video]

 

[lillybell]

The way that this has been handled is ridiculous! They are been treated like criminals!

Handcuffed? What for? Their son is now in a hospital alone without his parents.

They have committed no crime. They weren't neglecting Ashya in anyway. They were going to get him treatment that would have been more beneficial to Ashya in the Long term! And that is their choice!

I am still 100% behind this family and feel so bad for their treatment.

 

[Lilibet]

This is obviously a hot-button issue even here on this thread. We only know what has been in the media and on YouTube. Xina made some excellent points that I've bolded below about communication and the emotions a parent goes through.

Obviously, the Kings felt threatened and without other options, whether that was the intent of the doctors or not.

IMO Because of the volatile emotions that parents in this kind of situation will be feeling, the professionals need to be extra empathetic and careful not to give a parent any reason to feel backed into a corner and take "rash" action. Professional egos have no place in this situation. The emotional and possibly angry parents need to be cut some slack and treated with patience and kindness. If they come up with "wild" ideas that you don't believe will work, give them respect and show them you care. This is their child! Give them room to breathe and you may be able to reach an agreement about the best course of treatment. I truly hope that everyone can take a deep breath and work together for Ashya.

I concede your point that this is a new game to them, but I think if we were to analyze this situation when it is all said and done that the crux of the matter is that there was some sort of communication between the hospital and the parents that promoted this dramatic situation to occur. One in which the parents felt they had no choice but to do something rash and unadvised (from the hospital's perspective) because the parents felt backed into a corner. I think they were frightened of not having access to their child and having the ability to make decisions for him taken away. This is my interpretation of the situation.

>Respectfully snipped for space<

There is so much guilt and stress on a parent to make all the right choices and all the right moves. This is your precious child. They are a person and you love them. You only get one shot to make the best choices when life and death is at stake. They are depending on you. The enormity of the situation is very heavy. The stress and emotion is very raw. I lost 15 pounds over the course of 11 months forgetting to eat, not sleeping, sick with worry that when the phone rang at night it would be the hospital calling to tell me that she had taken a turn for the worse. The worry consumes you and your life stand still. You question all your decisions, you bargain with God, you pretend it isn't happening to you, but you know that is. It is hell. And no matter how caring the doctors and nurses, they go home at night free of the burden you carry.

 

[ZaZara]

PARENTS ARE BEING TRANSPORTED TO MADRID - HANDCUFFED STILL

Daily Mail reports:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...year-old-attacks-police-arresting-couple.html


The family who smuggled their dying son out of an NHS hospital and fled to Spain say they are being treated ‘worse than human traffickers’.

Brett and Naghmeh King will appear before a Madrid court today accused of neglecting their five-year-old son Ashya, who has a brain tumour.

They will be extradited back to Britain if a judge decides their decision to take Ashya from his bed in Southampton General Hospital was tantamount to child cruelty.

BBM

 

[necco]

I'm not really even faulting the doctors for working with statistics. It's what they see. They don't want to give false hope. They see case after case of dying children and it takes a toll.

However, from personal experience, I presented evidence that a child I was helping care for who I was told was in a coma with minimal brain function was in fact not only HEARING what was going on, but was seeing, and was aware of what was going on, I was shushed and told not to tell her immediate family. I am not a medical professional, but I did study psychology and did enough scientific studies to get hard evidence before I told ANYONE. The child WAS responding to me. It WAS repeatable. (To this day, the kid probably thinks of me as the nutty lady in the hospital who did the same thing like 20 times in a row to make sure I was seeing what I was seeing.) She's the honor student I mentioned above.

 

[gitana1]

But even so how is the parents decision to try anything to save Ashya 'illegal'?

It's certainly not "neglect" which is what they have been charged with or accused of. They have a terminal child. They wanted to try a different treatment option. Unless a parent is withholding treatment due to some kooky reason, they should have the power to make well-informed decisions regarding their child's care.

I wasn't sure when first reading about this case but after reading everything I can, I see ZERO that merits criminal charges or an arrest.

I don;t see a problem with the authorities in Britain issuing a warrant such that they could see the child, assess him and make sure he's under medical care, and if he wasn't, to take custody of the child, because they fled when he was very fragile, right after an operation, but to arrest them and separate them from their son? Nonsense.

 

[Little Jedi]

It's certainly not "neglect" which is what they have been charged with or accused of. They have a terminal child. They wanted to try a different treatment option. Unless a parent is withholding treatment due to some kooky reason, they should have the power to make well-informed decisions regarding their child's care.

I wasn't sure when first reading about this case but after reading everything I can, I see ZERO that merits criminal charges or an arrest.

I don;t see a problem with the authorities in Britain issuing a warrant such that they could see the child, assess him and make sure he's under medical care, and if he wasn't, to take custody of the child, because they fled when he was very fragile, right after an operation, but to arrest them and separate them from their son? Nonsense.

Thank You gitana !
I'm just catching-up & noticed you were following this thread, I was wanting to ask for your professional opinion on this.

Honestly this is me right now ~

 

[ZaZara]

Daily Mail reports:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...year-old-attacks-police-arresting-couple.html

"The parents accused of kidnapping their own child by taking him to Spain to treat his brain tumour have arrived in court while their dying son lies alone in hospital.

Brett and Naghmeh King will appear before a Madrid judge this morning accused of neglecting five-year-old Ashya.

They will be extradited back to Britain if a judge decides their decision to take Ashya from his bed in Southampton General Hospital was tantamount to child cruelty.

Ashya's brother Naveed says his sibling was never in any danger and had not been neglected."

"Earlier last night Naveed King wrote on Facebook that the boy’s parents and six siblings were being kept away from him.

He said: ‘All we know for now is that they may want to send my parents back to the UK for deeper questioning, they don’t allow anyone to see or visit Ashya, not even family.’"

BBM



The kid is 5 years old, alone in a hospital, and dying.


:jail: