GUILTY UK - Bernadette Walker, 17, left parent's car, Peterborough, 21 July 2020 *Arrests* #5

[CSIAngus]

Yes, he wouldn't have had time to kill her in Gunthorpe/Peterborough, given that he walked 410 steps at 11:16am and was driving again at 11:23am.

Edited

Do we know for definite that the 410 steps began at 11:16am and had ended before he's recorded driving again at 11:23am? The upper end of average stride is 2.5 feet x 410 steps = 315 metres. That's the equivalent of more than three quarters round an athletics track in about 6 minutes. That is slow at 3.15 kms per hour when average walking pace is 5 kms per hour. It's not hurried though if some of the time was stationary then parts of the time could be very hurried.

 

[CSIAngus]

Just thinking allowed.

10 minutes after leaving his parent's house, ScW stops in the Gunthorpe mast area for a period within 7 minutes during which he's on foot for the equivalent of 300-ish metres. Horses could have been leakage and I'm tending towards a location with horses as the excuse to get BW into countryside. They're out of the car and arguing, BW makes off, ScW catches up with her and force marches her back to the car where he strangles her in the car. He then switches his phone off as he drives her body on roads without NPR cameras to a location that he knows he can dispose of her in broad daylight and returns to Gunthorpe area - all in 94 minutes. A location he can return to in the dark and rain in the early hours without raising suspicion and makes a better job of disposal (perhaps he wasn't able to finish the job properly the first time because he was disturbed), digs or finishes digging the grave, then returns to Gunthorpe - all in 127 minutes. He's unnoticed with a dead body in both broad daylight and the dead of night. I think he knows this place very well to have such confidence. It all seems part of a preconceived plan to me, and not a reaction. BW is dead and buried for good within 18 hours. BW's body will have been in the car before decomposition began (normally 24 hours) so cadaver dogs would not pick anything up from the car or anything taken to the lock up that had been in contact with her body.

The missing 74 minutes in the early hours of the 20th after the Glinton camera could be ScW showing SaW where BW is buried. Could be a secluded woodland location or perhaps somewhere closed at weekends like a working quarry. Perhaps within 30 minutes drive from the town eastwards, like Wisbech area.

 

[Mercsw]

Definitely! I will have to go over the timeline again and try and pick out where he could have driven to towards the fens, I’m not massively knowledgeable regards the fens, is it specifically around fenland?

it’s not an area per se but a vast region that makes this near impossible. I think he did kill her and hide her in those 400 steps, then cleaned up on that trip out towards cowbit where he disappeared for another 2 hours. However in those areas you will get no lights, no cameras, no witnesses and during a summer night (even if raining) you can work in perfect isolation.

 

[Mercsw]

Edited

Do we know for definite that the 410 steps began at 11:16am and had ended before he's recorded driving again at 11:23am? The upper end of average stride is 2.5 feet x 410 steps = 315 metres. That's the equivalent of more than three quarters round an athletics track in about 6 minutes. That is slow at 3.15 kms per hour when average walking pace is 5 kms per hour. It's not hurried though if some of the time was stationary then parts of the time could be very hurried.

I took the slow pace due to doing a task. If he was moving the whole time that’s slow even for a dodgy back, fat guy. If he was stationary and doing something at this time, then it’s probably about right

 

[Tortoise]

Edited

Do we know for definite that the 410 steps began at 11:16am and had ended before he's recorded driving again at 11:23am? The upper end of average stride is 2.5 feet x 410 steps = 315 metres. That's the equivalent of more than three quarters round an athletics track in about 6 minutes. That is slow at 3.15 kms per hour when average walking pace is 5 kms per hour. It's not hurried though if some of the time was stationary then parts of the time could be very hurried.

Yes we do know it for definite. There are six separate trial sources for this information I can link for you if you need them.


What we don't know is if he was walking for this entire time. Even if he wasn't it's too short a time to have walked, strangled her, dragged her back to the car and manhandled her in, and been on the road driving away as he disconnected his phone. And that's a dangerous amount of time to be outside strangling someone in broad daylight with passing traffic.



Some evidence on the time it takes to strangle or suffocate a fit and healthy person :-


"It took six minutes for the Greek husband of Caroline Crouch to smother her to death with a pillow, investigators have concluded from information gleaned from her smartwatch".... (source)


"British backpacker Grace Millane would have been strangled for up to five minutes before she died, a court has heard. Dr Stables said her brain would have had to have been starved of oxygen for up to five minutes to cause her death. He added: "To do that for four to five minutes takes quite a bit of effort. "It's quite a lot of time. It does not seem like it but to do it for four to five minutes would take quite a bit of strength." (source)

 

[Tortoise]

Just thinking allowed.

10 minutes after leaving his parent's house, ScW stops in the Gunthorpe mast area for a period within 7 minutes during which he's on foot for the equivalent of 300-ish metres. Horses could have been leakage and I'm tending towards a location with horses as the excuse to get BW into countryside. They're out of the car and arguing, BW makes off, ScW catches up with her and force marches her back to the car where he strangles her in the car. He then switches his phone off as he drives her body on roads without NPR cameras to a location that he knows he can dispose of her in broad daylight and returns to Gunthorpe area - all in 94 minutes. A location he can return to in the dark and rain in the early hours without raising suspicion and makes a better job of disposal (perhaps he wasn't able to finish the job properly the first time because he was disturbed), digs or finishes digging the grave, then returns to Gunthorpe - all in 127 minutes. He's unnoticed with a dead body in both broad daylight and the dead of night. I think he knows this place very well to have such confidence. It all seems part of a preconceived plan to me, and not a reaction. BW is dead and buried for good within 18 hours. BW's body will have been in the car before decomposition began (normally 24 hours) so cadaver dogs would not pick anything up from the car or anything taken to the lock up that had been in contact with her body.

The missing 74 minutes in the early hours of the 20th after the Glinton camera could be ScW showing SaW where BW is buried. Could be a secluded woodland location or perhaps somewhere closed at weekends like a working quarry. Perhaps within 30 minutes drive from the town eastwards, like Wisbech area.

There's not enough time for this scenario.

I agree it was a preconceived plan and location, somewhere he already knew. I don't think he would take a chance on leaving her dead body somewhere he wasn't sure wouldn't be frequented by walkers, dogs off a lead, picnickers, teens out partying in the woods etc, and might be discovered before he could get back to it.

 

[CSIAngus]

Yes we do know it for definite. There are six separate trial sources for this information I can link for you if you need them.


What we don't know is if he was walking for this entire time. Even if he wasn't it's too short a time to have walked, strangled her, dragged her back to the car and manhandled her in, and been on the road driving away as he disconnected his phone. And that's a dangerous amount of time to be outside strangling someone in broad daylight with passing traffic.



Some evidence on the time it takes to strangle or suffocate a fit and healthy person :-


"It took six minutes for the Greek husband of Caroline Crouch to smother her to death with a pillow, investigators have concluded from information gleaned from her smartwatch".... (source)


"British backpacker Grace Millane would have been strangled for up to five minutes before she died, a court has heard. Dr Stables said her brain would have had to have been starved of oxygen for up to five minutes to cause her death. He added: "To do that for four to five minutes takes quite a bit of effort. "It's quite a lot of time. It does not seem like it but to do it for four to five minutes would take quite a bit of strength." (source)

I read somewhere that it can take as little as 5-15 secs to lose conscience and 2 minutes for brain dead. There are lots of factors: if he uses a garrotte for instance. I don't rule out a blow to the back of the head which would take no time at all.

 

[CSIAngus]

it’s not an area per se but a vast region that makes this near impossible. I think he did kill her and hide her in those 400 steps, then cleaned up on that trip out towards cowbit where he disappeared for another 2 hours. However in those areas you will get no lights, no cameras, no witnesses and during a summer night (even if raining) you can work in perfect isolation.

Saturday nighty was an 8% moon, Sunday night a 4% moon so it would be proper dark which is why he goes out again towards the end of the night in the early hours of Sunday, so he has some daylight before sunrise.

 

[CSIAngus]

There's not enough time for this scenario.

I agree it was a preconceived plan and location, somewhere he already knew. I don't think he would take a chance on leaving her dead body somewhere he wasn't sure wouldn't be frequented by walkers, dogs off a lead, picnickers, teens out partying in the woods etc, and might be discovered before he could get back to it.

There is time to incapacitate BW in the 6/7 minutes, then drive her to her final resting place where she is hidden and he returns later to bury her. Perhaps he finishes her off at the final location. He is sure of this location. It's somewhere he knows well. He is confident of leaving the body, which makes me think it may be a location that is not normally accessible. MOO

 

[Tortoise]

Cambridge Crown Court 1 T20207197
Sarah Walker
Scott Walker
Details: - No Information To Display -
Trial (Part Heard) - Summing Up - 10:06

https://www.thelawpages.com/court-hearings-lists/Cambridge-Crown-Court.php

 

[MrsWatson]

I know I can not be the only one who is very offended by the defense minimizing sexual abuse of a minor in his care by Scott. I do not think that will sit well with the jury.

 

[Kitkat28]

I read somewhere that it can take as little as 5-15 secs to lose conscience and 2 minutes for brain dead. There are lots of factors: if he uses a garrotte for instance. I don't rule out a blow to the back of the head which would take no time at all.

Do you mean a ligature? What on earth would make you think he would use a garrotte??

 

[RusselSprout]

Garrote


Description
A garrote or garrote vil is a weapon, usually a handheld ligature of chain, rope, scarf, wire or fishing line, used to strangle a person. Wikipedia

 

[Kitkat28]

I know I can not be the only one who is very offended by the defense minimizing sexual abuse of a minor in his care by Scott. I do not think that will sit well with the jury.

If you have to defend the indefensible, is that the desired effect of remarks like that I wonder?

 

[Tortoise]

Stephen Briggs

@PTstephenB

The Bernadette Walker murder trial is scheduled to enter its final stages today, as the jury have been told they will begin their deliberations at some point. The judge will sum up the evidence first, and give legal directions.

 

[Kitkat28]

Garrote


Description
A garrote or garrote vil is a weapon, usually a handheld ligature of chain, rope, scarf, wire or fishing line, used to strangle a person. Wikipedia

Yes, with a stick inserted to tighten or a stick at each end. Usually used as a torture device. I don’t think there’s any evidence or suggestion this was a torture murder.

 

[CSIAngus]

Do you mean a ligature? What on earth would make you think he would use a garrotte??

A ligature is a garrotte, i.e. a wire, cord, or other implement used to garrotte (strangle).

 

[Mrsengland]

I feel she’s gonna be released

 

[CSIAngus]

Yes, with a stick inserted to tighten or a stick at each end. Usually used as a torture device. I don’t think there’s any evidence or suggestion this was a torture murder.

A garrotte doesn't require a stick to be inserted. The point is it's a quicker way to strangle a person. No-one has mentioned torture.

 

[SaintMoore]

I feel she’s gonna be released

What makes you say this?
Do you have information from the family?