GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, Guilty on counts 1 & 5, 2025 retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #8

[kittythehare]

So they walk free or will, the other charges still apply?

I haven't a clue.
They deliberated for 72 hrs, that is not an awful long time, must be completely entrenched in their views, or one or two are?

I thought the case was inherently weak so I'm not hugely surprised, only surprised it came to this so soon, relatively speaking and i wonder whether all the long breaks helped?

 

[QB2022]

Why are they discharged if they reached a verdict on 4 of the charges?

 

[JumpingFrog]

Why are they discharged if they reached a verdict on 4 of the charges?

They were given majority direction. So if they can't or won't reach a majority on the most pressing charge (not sure if I can say it but you know the one I mean), then I can see why the judge may have dismissed them on this

 

[rockthecasbah]

As someone with early menopause, I wish the same for her to stop this happening again

 

[rightsaidfred]

So are they guilty or not guilty of the other three charges (concealing the birth, child cruelty and perverting the course of justice)? In the Letby trial, once the jury were discharged the media reported the verdicts that had been reached. Has the judge maintained the reporting restrictions until the CPS decides on the re-trial?

My guess is that the judge has indeed maintained reporting restrictions until next week's retrial decision.

 

[ShadowPuppet]

Cannot believe the jury has been discharged. I know the evidence itself wasn’t the strongest, but wasn’t expecting it. Probably silly of me. I am really disappointed Victoria has not seen justice and heartbroken for her siblings who will have to be told the full story at some point, who currently have no more clarity on what is believed to have happened.

 

[bbsaz]

I'm confused as they weren't discharged on Lucy Letby trial when they couldn't reach verdicts on all counts.

 

[bbsaz]

Why does it only say Constance Marten??

 

[bobbymkii]

Why does it only say Constance Marten??
View attachment 511623

they usually don't bother to say all of the defendant's names in multi-defendant trials

 

[solar]

Jury discharged,

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon jury discharged

Ms Marten, 37, and Mr Gordon, 50, denied manslaughter by gross negligence of their baby Victoria.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

Jury discharged,

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon jury discharged

Ms Marten, 37, and Mr Gordon, 50, denied manslaughter by gross negligence of their baby Victoria.

www.bbc.co.uk

From your link:

The prosecution will now have to consider whether to seek a retrial.

The trial began almost five months ago on 25 January and the jury of five women and five men spent 72 hours and 33 minutes deliberating.

On Wednesday, the Judge Mark Lucraft KC thanked jurors for their "extraordinary" public service and the "dedication" they have shown in the case.

The judge said he was conscious the jurors had put their lives on hold for the trial and excused them from jury service for the rest of their lives.

A judge can decide to discharge a jury - essentially dismiss them and end the trial - if they have been unable to reach a majority verdict. Any retrial then requires that a new jury be appointed.

 

[QB2022]

This doesn't sound like they announced any verdicts, even if any were agreed upon

 

[InstantCoffee]

I've always firmly believed in the jury system, but when something like this happens you have to wonder! Millions of pounds, 6 months of everyone's lives in the courtroom (and their families) and back to square one. Just the enormous waste of time, money and effort.

I think the huge downfall was the length of time the trial took, everything about it shouted tardy. Such short days in court, so many more days missed for example when Mark Gordon decided not to get on the stand after all, but other witnesses couldn't be called sooner.
Billed at only being a 6 week trial, of course things change for people when six weeks becomes six months - people fall ill, have other commitments etc etc. And then your jury of 12 becomes 10 and then it's obviously not so easy to get a majority blah blah blah...

I really hope a retrial happens though - despite more money, more time and resources - because Victoria has no voice and no justice yet.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I sincerely hope they retry them both.
They left baby Victoria in a shed in plastic bag covered in dirt and beer cans.
I can never get past that fact.
It’s utterly hideously vile.

 

[QB2022]

I think this and Lucy Letby have both shown just how slow and tedious our justice system is.

 

[bobbymkii]

I think this and Lucy Letby have both shown just how slow and tedious our justice system is.

It is. One thing that drives me mad in particular about our trials is how long opening and closing statements (and summing up) take.

I'm following a trial in America at the moment (@Parker Knoll knows which one I mean ) which has been going on for about six weeks, has had a few days where the court hasn't been able to sit or only sit for a half day, some days where the jury have had to stay home while the lawyers resolve legal matters, and the Americans are like: "OMG so many delays, when will this trial finally end?!"

And I'm thinking, do they even know what it's like over here?!

 

[Cherwell]

This is why I felt so uneasy about the Letby trial. Months and months of prosecution evidence before the defence were able to put their side. I can't help feeling it would have been fairer, and much easier for the jury, if the defence had been able to address each charge as it arose.

I guess the potential problem with that would be that a jury are not supposed to know the criminal record / conviction history of a defendant...which they would had they been the ones to give the verdict on previous charges.

I don't mean that the charges would be treated as separate cases, with the jury retiring and giving a verdict after each one. Just for the defence to be able to respond to each charge after the prosecution had made their case, while the details are still fresh in the minds of the jury. Instead of the prosecution making a case for ALL the charges and the defence having to wait months before being able to defend any of the charges..

 

[Bluebear15]

I very much hope there's a retrial
Justice for little baby Victoria
Moo, imo

 

[Alyce]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

They are -both - totally responsible for taking a newborn out onto the Downs in the middle of winter, with inadequate clothing and extremely unsuitable shelter.
Social Services don't always get it right ( no one does ) but the fact that 2 children were removed from their care at a very early age in life and a further 2 children were taken at birth - speaks volumes about the high level of concern the authorities had for these children.

 

[Megnut]

IMO it doesn't need to be mutually exclusive. If they're responsible for failing to report, for abscinding with her, for her death and "burial" under refuse, they should be held to account. And offered treatment for whatever lies beneath which led to such an abominable outcome for a Baby who had a right to live.

JMO