GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, Guilty on counts 1 & 5, 2025 retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #8

[CaptainNancy]

What to deduce from the fact that no judgment has been published from the Court of Appeal? Is it more likely that a judgment was issued without being published, or that no judgment has been issued?

I would guess that whatever transpired was not considered newsworthy enough. Had they been given permission to appeal the convictions, I imagine it would have been reported.as far as was permissible within the reporting restrictions.

But as there were reporting restrictions on the proceedings. So it may well have been around what evidence would be allowed in this trial concerning the circumstances and adoptions of the older children . OR whether MG’s previous convictions could be used in court. Previous convictions are not usually allowed to be discussed during a trial. Not until sentencing.

WRT your earlier post: plea bargaining is not a thing in English courts.

 

[Carriep]

I would guess that whatever transpired was not considered newsworthy enough. Had they been given permission to appeal the convictions, I imagine it would have been reported.as far as was permissible within the reporting restrictions.

But as there were reporting restrictions on the proceedings. So it may well have been around what evidence would be allowed in this trial concerning the circumstances and adoptions of the older children . OR whether MG’s previous convictions could be used in court. Previous convictions are not usually allowed to be discussed during a trial. Not until sentencing.

WRT your earlier post: plea bargaining is not a thing in English courts.

Lack of a public record of the judgment, if there has been a judgment, can't be to do with perceived newsworthiness.

Court of Appeal Judgments - Courts and Tribunals Judiciary

Court of Appeal Judgments are published on the National Archives (TNA) “find case law” service for the public.

www.judiciary.uk

"Court of Appeal Judgments are now published on the National Archives (TNA) new “find case law” service for the public. TNA will preserve the judgments as records in the archive. The judgments TNA is receiving for publication are joining the archive’s extensive collection of court records, dating back 800 years. The new service is intended to increase transparency and secure free access for all."

Advanced search - Find Case Law - The National Archives

Search the Find Case Law service using filters such as date ranges, courts and names of parties and judges.

caselaw.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Plea bargaining certainly is a thing in English courts!

Agreed it could have been an interlocutory appeal. All we know is it wasn't an appeal against sentence, because then it would have been handled by A group and been classified accordingly:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Guide-to-proceedings-in-the-Court-of-Appeal-Criminal-Division.pdf

It was interlocutory or against verdict. If it was interlocutory, that might be the reason the judgment hasn't been published yet.

 

[Alyce]

www.thelawpages.com

​

 

[Nikynoo]

Lack of a public record of the judgment, if there has been a judgment, can't be to do with perceived newsworthiness.

Court of Appeal Judgments - Courts and Tribunals Judiciary

Court of Appeal Judgments are published on the National Archives (TNA) “find case law” service for the public.

www.judiciary.uk

"Court of Appeal Judgments are now published on the National Archives (TNA) new “find case law” service for the public. TNA will preserve the judgments as records in the archive. The judgments TNA is receiving for publication are joining the archive’s extensive collection of court records, dating back 800 years. The new service is intended to increase transparency and secure free access for all."

Advanced search - Find Case Law - The National Archives

Search the Find Case Law service using filters such as date ranges, courts and names of parties and judges.

caselaw.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Plea bargaining certainly is a thing in English courts!

Agreed it could have been an interlocutory appeal. All we know is it wasn't an appeal against sentence, because then it would have been handled by A group and been classified accordingly:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Guide-to-proceedings-in-the-Court-of-Appeal-Criminal-Division.pdf

It was interlocutory or against verdict. If it was interlocutory, that might be the reason the judgment hasn't been published yet.

It may be that the judgement has not been handed down yet?

 

[Obergine]

Well here we are and here I am again! I don't think I've missed anything interesting yet... though I am wondering how much coverage there will be this time around. I see that crossbow cretin is getting coverage today. I don't have the stomach to follow that one in any depth but I do hope he gets a nice long sentence. How is everyone? I am mainly obsessing about Ukraine and the destruction of science and evidence based medicine in the US.

 

[Carriep]

It may be that the judgement has not been handed down yet?

Yes that's possible, although the losing side would need to see it before considering whether they wanted to try to take their case to the Supreme Court.

I'm beginning to think last Thursday's appeal may have been an interlocutory appeal by a news organisation against a reporting ban, rather than an appeal by the defence or prosecution.

 

[Alyce]

A short day


www.thelawpages.com

 

[Nikynoo]

A short day


www.thelawpages.com

View attachment 568019

Is it jury selection @Alyce?

 

[Alyce]

Is it jury selection @Alyce?

So little coverage up to now. Let's hope it was and that they can now have a full day tomorrow.


Usual 10am start again tomorrow


www.courtserve.net

 

[Carriep]

So little coverage up to now. Let's hope it was and that they can now have a full day tomorrow.


Usual 10am start again tomorrow


www.courtserve.net

View attachment 568027

"So little coverage". Has there been any press mention at all that the retrial has started? (At least a retrial in the broad sense. I have no idea whether they've been arraigned yet and asked how they plead, and if so, what charges are on the indictment.)

 

[Alyce]

Today's info so far....

www.thelawpages.com

 

[Carriep]

The Bolton News is reporting this.

Jurors selected in Constance Marten baby death retrial

Jurors have been selected for the retrial of aristocrat Constance Marten and her partner, who are accused over the death of their baby.

www.theboltonnews.co.uk

The Argus is also reporting it, citing the PA:

Jurors selected in Constance Marten baby death retrial

The defendants, of no fixed address, have denied the charges against them.

www.theargus.co.uk

The Irish Examiner have the same article, with source cited as Emily Pennink, the PA's Old Bailey Correspondent:

Jurors selected in Constance Marten baby death retrial

Marten, 37, and Mark Gordon, 50, are charged with the manslaughter by gross negligence of their daughter Victoria and causing or allowing her death in early 2023

www.irishexaminer.com

Nothing in the national British news yet AFAIAA.

 

[Alyce]

Finally.....



Jurors have been selected for the retrial

Marten, 37, and Gordon, 50, are charged with the manslaughter by gross negligence of their daughter Victoria and causing or allowing her death in early 2023.

On Wednesday, a panel of 20 potential jurors was selected

Judge Mark Lucraft KC told them to return to court on Thursday.

Tom Little KC will open the case on Monday.

The trial is expected to go on for up to eight weeks.

Jurors selected in Constance Marten baby death retrial

The defendants, of no fixed address, have denied the charges against them.

www.irishnews.com

 

[Obergine]

'Eight weeks...' they say, optimistically.

 

[Alyce]

'Eight weeks...' they say, optimistically.

 

[Carriep]

It is probably relevant that the Press Association is the main national news agency for Britain and Ireland.

This may explain why the British national press are not reporting the retrial while the Irish national press are. And perhaps not everyone in the British local press has received the memo.

The situation may of course change in the next few hours.

 

[Alyce]

www.thelawpages.com

 

[nb93x]

It is probably relevant that the Press Association is the main national news agency for Britain and Ireland.

This may explain why the British national press are not reporting the retrial while the Irish national press are. And perhaps not everyone in the British local press has received the memo.

The situation may of course change in the next few hours.

Are they live reporting? I assume the evidence will be the same as the first trial? Or can more evidence be submitted for a retrial?

 

[dotr]

Jurors selected in Constance Marten baby death retrial

The defendants, of no fixed address, have denied the charges against them.

guernseypress.com

Published 14 hours ago
''Judge Mark Lucraft KC told them not to carry out any internet research and return to court on Thursday.

Jurors were told that prosecutor Tom Little KC will open the case on Monday.''

''The trial is expected to go on for up to eight weeks''.

 

[Carriep]

Are they live reporting? I assume the evidence will be the same as the first trial? Or can more evidence be submitted for a retrial?

I don't know whether the Press Association are live reporting. We will have to see whether the British media report the prosecution opening speech on Monday.

Sure, both sides can submit evidence that they didn't submit before, or choose not to submit evidence that they did bring before.