GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, Guilty on counts 1 & 5, 2025 retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #8

[Carriep]

How does this go if she says she hadn't had any sleep for two nights, fell asleep on top of the baby, and woke up to find her dead? Then if this is true the cause of death could have been smothering, or hypothermia, or something else. Perhaps she will say this wasn't the first night in the tent but the second or third. It's odd that having had experience of living in a tent they didn't buy a camping mat, or bring a stove plus water container plus pan plus hot water bottle. Argos sell all five of those things. (At least they do online. I'm not sure about in store.)

"Inside the tent it gets up to five degrees (centigrade) higher than the outside". The more people, the warmer, because every person gives off heat that heats the air.

 

[Alyce]

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[CaptainNancy]

The Jersey Post seem to have covered todays proceedings:

Constance Marten used ‘summer’ sleeping bags in winter, court told - Jersey Evening Post

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon used sleeping bags meant for summer while off-grid with their baby during winter, a court has heard. Marten, 37, and Gordon, 50, are accused of the manslaughter of their daughter Victoria. The Old Bailey has heard how the couple went to the south coast in early...

jerseyeveningpost.com

“Marten and Gordon purchased two Pro Action sleeping bags from Argos, the court was told.
Prof Havenith said the sleeping bags were not designed to be used in the UK countryside in January.
He added: “They were summer bags. They are for camping on warm summer nights or children’s sleepovers indoors.” “

Cheap shoddy sleeping bags, no mats underneath to protect them from the ground cold, in those little festival tents that drip condensation on you as soon as you zip up the door.

 

[Zuleika]

I’m starting to wonder was there a plan hatching there , not buying a tent fit for the weather ? Trapped by circumstance into a situation they could no longer sustain had decided they would all tgo together ?

 

[Carriep]

The Jersey Post seem to have covered todays proceedings:

Constance Marten used ‘summer’ sleeping bags in winter, court told - Jersey Evening Post

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon used sleeping bags meant for summer while off-grid with their baby during winter, a court has heard. Marten, 37, and Gordon, 50, are accused of the manslaughter of their daughter Victoria. The Old Bailey has heard how the couple went to the south coast in early...

jerseyeveningpost.com

“Marten and Gordon purchased two Pro Action sleeping bags from Argos, the court was told.
Prof Havenith said the sleeping bags were not designed to be used in the UK countryside in January.
He added: “They were summer bags. They are for camping on warm summer nights or children’s sleepovers indoors.” “

Cheap shoddy sleeping bags, no mats underneath to protect them from the ground cold, in those little festival tents that drip condensation on you as soon as you zip up the door.

For use indoors?

Argos sell four different kinds of Pro Action 2-person tents. They are all designed for use outdoors, to judge by the descriptions and photos:

https://www.argos.co.uk/search/pro-action-2/

Another thing he may be asked about is whether the two PhD students in his experiment snuggled up with each other inside the tent, or otherwise tried to stay as warm as possible.

 

[Nikynoo]

I’m starting to wonder was there a plan hatching there , not buying a tent fit for the weather ? Trapped by circumstance into a situation they could no longer sustain had decided they would all tgo together ?

I think it was just incompetence on MGs part. I believe he was the one who made the purchases in Argos.

 

[Maltesepuppy]

The Jersey Post seem to have covered todays proceedings:

Constance Marten used ‘summer’ sleeping bags in winter, court told - Jersey Evening Post

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon used sleeping bags meant for summer while off-grid with their baby during winter, a court has heard. Marten, 37, and Gordon, 50, are accused of the manslaughter of their daughter Victoria. The Old Bailey has heard how the couple went to the south coast in early...

jerseyeveningpost.com

“Marten and Gordon purchased two Pro Action sleeping bags from Argos, the court was told.
Prof Havenith said the sleeping bags were not designed to be used in the UK countryside in January.
He added: “They were summer bags. They are for camping on warm summer nights or children’s sleepovers indoors.” “

Cheap shoddy sleeping bags, no mats underneath to protect them from the ground cold, in those little festival tents that drip condensation on you as soon as you zip up the door.

In other words. Those 2 didn't even show the competence to look after themselves and believed they were best equipped to care for a baby when at her most vulnerable.
JMO MOO

 

[Bibno]

For use indoors?

Argos sell four different kinds of Pro Action 2-person tents. They are all designed for use outdoors, to judge by the descriptions and photos:

https://www.argos.co.uk/search/pro-action-2/

Another thing he may be asked about is whether the two PhD students in his experiment snuggled up with each other inside the tent, or otherwise tried to stay as warm as possible.

I think that article is referring to the sleeping bags as being for outdoor use.

 

[Amaz0nia]

I think it was just incompetence on MGs part. I believe he was the one who made the purchases in Argos.

I dont think MG is the brightest spanner in the box-she def has the brains maybe he had the brawn..however i get the feeling it she was mother in the relationship….

 

[Carriep]

I think that article is referring to the sleeping bags as being for outdoor use.

The professor and director of the Environmental Ergonomics Research Centre at Loughborough University said "They were summer bags. They are for camping on warm summer nights or children’s sleepovers indoors."

Constance Marten used ‘summer’ sleeping bags in winter, court told

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon used sleeping bags meant for summer while off-grid with their baby during winter, a court

www.brightonandhovenews.org

These are the Pro Action 2-person tents sold by Argos now:

https://www.argos.co.uk/search/pro-action-2/?clickOrigin=searchbar:productdetails:term:pro+action+2

 

[Carriep]

I dont think MG is the brightest spanner in the box-she def has the brains maybe he had the brawn..however i get the feeling it she was mother in the relationship….

He was reported to have bought an unsuitable buggy, which they soon dumped, but there may have been a mind or plan change. There may also have been the banal factor that the Argos store had some tents in store but not others. Other factors may have been that some tents pack up bigger than others and cost more.

 

[Cherwell]

I wonder what they would have done had their car not caught fire. That was the crucial event.

 

[CaptainNancy]

I think it is the sleeping bags that are designed for indoor use - for sleepovers, maybe for caravans or perhaps summer camping.

I sometimes camp year round and would only consider camping in January with an insulation mat, plus a 3 or 4 season sleeping bag plus fleece blankets, and in a canvas tent, or if polyester, double skin to prevent condensation dripping down.

I assume they dumped the pushchair because it drew more attention to them as to having a child with them, as they knew by then they they were in the news. In winter my kids' buggies had an insulation layer underneath them, and when young a full length insulated fleece lined waterproof windproof cover. In the video they are shown putting the baby in the buggy wearing only a babygro, no blanket or insulation, and only the flimsy footmuff that comes with the pushchair. Maybe they bought baby blankets later but they are not shown on any receipts, as far as I remember?

 

[CaptainNancy]

I wonder what they would have done had their car not caught fire. That was the crucial event.

Possibly headed for a port and taken a car ferry to Ireland with MG and baby smuggled in the boot? Or the other plan that CM alluded to in court last time was to establish themselves in Ireland and then have person from Gumtree bring the baby over - or maybe the baby would go first, I forget. JMO

Maybe just try and use their cash to get somewhere to live and stay off grid. As no one knew there was a new baby CM could presumably have continued using her trust fund and associated income and bank cards. Maybe been sheltered by sympathetic communities critical of Children's Services - JMO.

 

[CatsnChickens]

What I don't understand is if they were planning an escape abroad why on earth didn't they do this BEFORE the baby was born like months before.

There has been little to no joined up thinking with this pair they seem to inhabit an alternative reality to most of the rest of us.

 

[Alyce]

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[Alyce]

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The Crown Court at Central Criminal Court

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[Konstantin]

What I don't understand is if they were planning an escape abroad why on earth didn't they do this BEFORE the baby was born like months before.

There has been little to no joined up thinking with this pair they seem to inhabit an alternative reality to most of the rest of us.

They are just chaotic and not really able to plan. Elements of a folie a deux where they are both feeding off each other's chaos and impulsivity and fantasy.

MG probably bought those items from Argos because he had no clue and assumed a tent is a tent and a sleeping bag is a sleeping bag and so just got the cheapest ones or whatever that particular store had in stock. No real thought. No planning.

 

[Bibno]

I think that article is referring to the sleeping bags as being for outdoor use.

Sorry, I meant to say, the sleeping bags were *not* for outdoor use.

 

[Alyce]

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