GUILTY UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged in death of baby Victoria, Guilty on counts 1 & 5, 2025 retrial on manslaughter, 5 Jan 2023 #8

[Megnut]

Has he not just admitted guilt in the statement above? One charge is causing the death of a child, and he has just said the baby 100% died because we didn't do the right thing and hand her in?

While blaming LE for making them run.

If they had stopped running, Baby Victoria would be 2.

JMO

 

[Alyce]

From my link above

If that manhunt had not begun, things would not have happened


and if two - loving - parents had spent 9 months planning for the arrival of their- much wanted - child, something they were well able to do with her access to funds, then the baby would now be ( as Megnut says ) a happy little 2 year old.

 

[bbsaz]

If they had worked with social services, instead of seemingly fighting all authorities (NHS, SS, police), then they could have kept Victoria. But they were adamant that they knew best, and repeated the same mistakes they did the 4x before, and look at the result.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

If this is CM preparing to be cross-examined by the prosecution (there are several other possibilities), I wonder how long the crown will keep her in the box this time. I think they questioned her for about 6? days at the first trial.

If I were writing this as a novel, I'd have the crown counsel ask a single completely anodyne question and then say "No further questions".

EDIT
Well it isn't CM. It's MG giving evidence.

Constance Marten’s partner claims baby only died because of police manhunt

‘We had become deranged a little bit. We were off our heads,’ Gordon told jurors

www.independent.co.uk

Bit of a chicken and egg situation here - MG claiming the manhunt forced them into some sort of insanity and high risk lifestyle. Whilst I'm sure LE and prosecution would argue they were on a manhunt trying to get to the baby before MG and CM's high risk lifestyle caused the baby to come to harm.

MG is using the fact the baby died as proof of his argument. LE / Prosecution will use the fact the baby died as evidence they made the right decision.

I would argue that numerous incidents prior the national news manhunt shows the child was already at high risk - having had all her siblings removed prior she was born, having been in a car fire whilst in the custody of two people who didn't seek the right help when this devastating incident arose in the middle of winter, leaving them on the side of the road with no possessions, no car, no resources. That incident itself off the back of a sketchy plan to remove her from the country and live on the run even if it went 'successfully'. These are just things we the public know of, what more else, the mind boggles.

JMO MOO

 

[Carriep]

The Standard

Constance Marten’s partner blames police for death of baby

Marten, 38, and Mark Gordon, 50 are charged with the manslaughter of their baby daughter Victoria who died in a tent on the South Downs in early 2023.

www.standard.co.uk

Headline: "Constance Marten’s partner blames police for death of baby"

The Independent

Constance Marten’s partner claims baby only died because of police manhunt

‘We had become deranged a little bit. We were off our heads,’ Gordon told jurors

www.independent.co.uk

Headline: "Constance Marten’s partner claims baby only died because of police manhunt"

The Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...tens-boyfriend-blames-police-for-babys-death/

Headline: "Constance Marten’s boyfriend blames police for baby’s death, court hears"

I'm trying to think of any previous occasions when the media have reported that a defendant is giving evidence at their trial without mentioning their name in the headline but referring to them only as someone else's partner.

But few remember the name Oliver Mellors.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Bit of a chicken and egg situation here - MG claiming the manhunt forced them into some sort of insanity and high risk lifestyle. Whilst I'm sure LE and prosecution would argue they were on a manhunt trying to get to the baby before MG and CM's high risk lifestyle caused the baby to come to harm.

MG is using the fact the baby died as proof of his argument. LE / Prosecution will use the fact the baby died as evidence they made the right decision.

I would argue that numerous incidents prior the national news manhunt shows the child was already at high risk - having had all her siblings removed prior she was born, having been in a car fire whilst in the custody of two people who didn't seek the right help when this devastating incident arose in the middle of winter, leaving them on the side of the road with no possessions, no car, no resources. That incident itself off the back of a sketchy plan to remove her from the country and live on the run even if it went 'successfully'. These are just things we the public know of, what more else, the mind boggles.

JMO MOO

Was there a “manhunt” before the burning car?
IIRC … the couple with a newborn abandoned their car … Leaving behind a placenta wrapped in a towel (conclusion that CM gave birth IN the car), leaving behind possessions and a pet cat in a carrier and walked away w babe in arms on highway.

Is it correct behavior after burning car prompted the manhunt … ?

There was no manhunt before the burning car.
Can anyone confirm when the manhunt started… if after burning car, LE had no choice but to try find them because their behavior at &after car fire high risk for baby. That coupled with other children being removed.

 

[Alyce]

Was there a “manhunt” before the burning car?
IIRC … the couple with a newborn abandoned their car … Leaving behind a placenta wrapped in a towel (conclusion that CM gave birth IN the car), leaving behind possessions and a pet cat in a carrier and walked away w babe in arms on highway.

Is it correct behavior after burning car prompted the manhunt … ?

There was no manhunt before the burning car.
Can anyone confirm when the manhunt started… if after burning car, LE had no choice but to try find them because their behavior at &after car fire high risk for baby. That coupled with other children being removed.

Helen Pidd North of England editor

Fri 6 Jan 2023 14.04 GMT


Police in Greater Manchester are searching for a couple and their newborn baby who went missing after their car broke down.

Greater Manchester police search for couple and newborn baby

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon went missing on M61 after car broke down

www.theguardian.com

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Helen Pidd North of England editor

Fri 6 Jan 2023 14.04 GMT


Police in Greater Manchester are searching for a couple and their newborn baby who went missing after their car broke down.

Greater Manchester police search for couple and newborn baby

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon went missing on M61 after car broke down

www.theguardian.com

IMo .. Manhunt started AFTER they started running.

 

[Alyce]

He said: “At one point I remarked to my wife we should all go together on a pyre with the baby.
“It’s a horrible thing to be seen like we are being seen, like monsters.

Appealing to the jury, he said: “We will have to live with this forever. We punished ourselves day in, day out, for that for two years. What more do you want.”

He added: “There was no plan to go and live in the forest or live in the woods.
It was somewhere to sleep for the night, nothing more than that.
“We decided we can do that for a day and then we can find somewhere more stable.”
But inside the tent, conditions were “satisfactory for a night’s stay” and they were neither damp nor wet as they kept the baby close.



more...much more....at the link

Constance Marten’s partner suggested they ‘go together on pyre’ after baby death

Mark Gordon said he found their daughter Victoria had gone limp after they pitched a tent on the South Downs amid a national manhunt.

www.eastlothiancourier.com

 

[jackal67]

He said: “At one point I remarked to my wife we should all go together on a pyre with the baby.
“It’s a horrible thing to be seen like we are being seen, like monsters.

Appealing to the jury, he said: “We will have to live with this forever. We punished ourselves day in, day out, for that for two years. What more do you want.”

He added: “There was no plan to go and live in the forest or live in the woods.
It was somewhere to sleep for the night, nothing more than that.
“We decided we can do that for a day and then we can find somewhere more stable.”
But inside the tent, conditions were “satisfactory for a night’s stay” and they were neither damp nor wet as they kept the baby close.



more...much more....at the link

Constance Marten’s partner suggested they ‘go together on pyre’ after baby death

Mark Gordon said he found their daughter Victoria had gone limp after they pitched a tent on the South Downs amid a national manhunt.

www.eastlothiancourier.com

I am shocked that MG is giving evidence as he said nothing last time! Is he being cross examined or just standing up telling his side of the story to the jury? Very confused here !!

 

[Carriep]

I am shocked that MG is giving evidence as he said nothing last time! Is he being cross examined or just standing up telling his side of the story to the jury? Very confused here !!

Since MG is representing himself, he hasn't got counsel to ask him questions, so he is giving his evidence-in-chief by making a sworn statement from the witness box. Then he can be cross-examined afterwards. This is what is suggested by the absence of reference in news reports to him being asked any questions.

It's unclear whether or not CM has closed her case. MG clearly has reopened his.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Was there a “manhunt” before the burning car?
IIRC … the couple with a newborn abandoned their car … Leaving behind a placenta wrapped in a towel (conclusion that CM gave birth IN the car), leaving behind possessions and a pet cat in a carrier and walked away w babe in arms on highway.

Is it correct behavior after burning car prompted the manhunt … ?

There was no manhunt before the burning car.
Can anyone confirm when the manhunt started… if after burning car, LE had no choice but to try find them because their behavior at &after car fire high risk for baby. That coupled with other children being removed.

It started because the police found the placenta in the burned out car which triggered concern for the newborn, if I recall correctly.

 

[Skigh]

From the article posted above:

The baby was always carried by her parents, ate well and rarely cried during her short life, Gordon said.

That poor baby did not have the energy to cry ,if she had she certainly would have done so when being cold and hungry and uncomfortable when placed in an unsuitable push chair and carried in a cheap plastic shopping bag.

 

[jackal67]

Since MG is representing himself, he hasn't got counsel to ask him questions, so he is giving his evidence-in-chief by making a sworn statement from the witness box. Then he can be cross-examined afterwards. This is what is suggested by the absence of reference in news reports to him being asked any questions.

It's unclear whether or not CM has closed her case. MG clearly has reopened his.

Thanks, I thought CM had refused to be cross examined? Can MG refuse to be cross examined too?

 

[dotr]

Constance Marten’s partner blames police for death of baby

Marten, 38, and Mark Gordon, 50 are charged with the manslaughter of their baby daughter Victoria who died in a tent on the South Downs in early 2023.

www.standard.co.uk

''Wearing a blue shirt and pink headscarf, Gordon became at times teary and was handed tissues while giving evidence.''

 

[CaptainNancy]

Since MG is representing himself, he hasn't got counsel to ask him questions, so he is giving his evidence-in-chief by making a sworn statement from the witness box. Then he can be cross-examined afterwards. This is what is suggested by the absence of reference in news reports to him being asked any questions.

It's unclear whether or not CM has closed her case. MG clearly has reopened his.

Not sure - the press reports say that he is on the witness stand, so presumably giving evidence as a witness, rather than as his own defence?

 

[Carriep]

Not sure - the press reports say that he is on the witness stand, so presumably giving evidence as a witness, rather than as his own defence?

I think he must be his own witness rather than hers, because if he was hers her counsel would be questioning him first.

 

[Skigh]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed for no link>

Presumably there was interest as the car she abandoned contained a placenta which showed a recent birth and people saw her with a baby.

 

[Alyce]

I am shocked that MG is giving evidence as he said nothing last time! Is he being cross examined or just standing up telling his side of the story to the jury? Very confused here !!

He is speaking for himself, in the absence of having a Counsel. Narrative evidence ( thanks to @bobbymkii for that info ).

In one way, it is quite smart, because MG is not hindered by having to restrict his dialogue to the question format that would be used if his Counsel were taking him through the details ( or in this case ex Counsel ).Also it does not allow the Prosecution any prior warning of what is likely to be said.

However, IMO only of course, he is making such a hash of it already that by the time Joel Smith begins his cross examination, I think MG will be wishing he had remained as silent as he did during his first trial.

just edited to make it clearer

 

[Alyce]

Gordon no longer has barristers to represent him, so the judge Mark Lucraft KC asked him questions to lead him through his evidence.

No laws were being broken to justify a national manhunt," he said.

"There are risk assessments that you should do, people - if somebody's on the side of a ledge about to jump off, you don't rush them."

We are not silly people. We are not irresponsible people.





as always, there's more at the link

Mark Gordon blames baby's death on police manhunt, court hears

Gordon, 50, gives evidence for the first time in his retrial over the death of his newborn daughter.

www.bbc.co.uk