UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4

[Megnut]

The couple could be seen chatting to each other in the early stages of the court hearing

Shortly before the end of the hearing, the judge admonished the couple after they continued talking during legal submissions.

"Would the defendant mind not having a private conversation", he said.
"This is your trial.
"It is not very courteous to the court or indeed your counsel."

Marten was seen blowing a kiss and waving to Gordon as she left the dock.

Aristocrat and partner deny manslaughter of baby

The couple sat together in the Old Bailey dock as they pleaded not guilty to charges

www.standard.co.uk

Loony ticks.

I wish they'd be tried separately so they couldn't use court days to make googly eyes. They aren't in 7th grade; they're on trial for serious charges. I'd like to see the judge be less polite. The courtroom is no place for middle school socializing.

JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

The couple could be seen chatting to each other in the early stages of the court hearing

Shortly before the end of the hearing, the judge admonished the couple after they continued talking during legal submissions.

"Would the defendant mind not having a private conversation", he said.
"This is your trial.
"It is not very courteous to the court or indeed your counsel."

Marten was seen blowing a kiss and waving to Gordon as she left the dock.

Aristocrat and partner deny manslaughter of baby

The couple sat together in the Old Bailey dock as they pleaded not guilty to charges

www.standard.co.uk

The issue of guilt aside, they're not winning any fans with how flippant and breezy they're being. It's hard to believe they cared about and mourned Victoria when they're giggling together like teenagers at the back of the classroom.

MOO

 

[Alyce]

Loony ticks.

I wish they'd be tried separately so they couldn't use court days to make googly eyes. They aren't in 7th grade; they're on trial for serious charges. I'd like to see the judge be less polite. The courtroom is no place for middle school socializing.

JMO

The issue of guilt aside, they're not winning any fans with how flippant and breezy they're being. It's hard to believe they cared about and mourned Victoria when they're giggling together like teenagers at the back of the classroom.

MOO

Agree with both of you.

I wish there was a facility to add additional time to whatever sentence they end up with, as a penalty for their total disrespect to the court and to Victoria.

 

[bobbymkii]

I'm not expecting their courtroom behaviour to improve during their trial in January

 

[bobbymkii]

I wish there was a facility to add additional time to whatever sentence they end up with, as a penalty for their total disrespect to the court and to Victoria.

If anything when it comes to sentencing, the immaturity of an offender is treated as a mitigating factor, rather than aggravating?

Although I think that mainly applies to younger offenders and these two are very much grown adults.

 

[Megnut]

If anything when it comes to sentencing, the immaturity of an offender is treated as a mitigating factor, rather than aggravating?

Although I think that mainly applies to younger offenders and these two are very much grown adults.

I know I don't get a vote in the courtroom but I find their immaturity aggravating.

And you're right, we're not talking about young people who haven't matured yet or vulnerable, incapable.

We're just talking about grown adults, reveling in full self-absorption. Them against the world.

Baby who?

Jmo

 

[JennieM]

I know I don't get a vote in the courtroom but I find their immaturity aggravating.

And you're right, we're not talking about young people who haven't matured yet or vulnerable, incapable.

We're just talking about grown adults, reveling in full self-absorption. Them against the world.

Baby who?

Jmo

Exactly Baby who. This sums it up. They were never fit to have her or deserving of her.

 

[rightsaidfred]

Aristocrat who 'killed baby' has taxpayer-funded defence after trust fund fails

Marten today appeared via video link at the Old Bailey, which heard she is now receiving legal aid to fund her defence. She had previously told the court that the trust fund which controls her finances had failed to pay her solicitors and they had withdrawn their services.

Sounds - massively reading between the lines - that her family have lost patience with her. Perhaps they thought that she'd come to her senses re Gordon after this, but hasn't. MOO.

 

[QB2022]

Aristocrat who 'killed baby' has taxpayer-funded defence after trust fund fails



Sounds - massively reading between the lines - that her family have lost patience with her. Perhaps they thought that she'd come to her senses re Gordon after this, but hasn't. MOO.

I don't know the ins and outs of trust funds but I imagine the family found a way to stop her using her trust fund in this way. Not sure I blame them@

 

[Cedars]

I don't know the ins and outs of trust funds but I imagine the family found a way to stop her using her trust fund in this way. Not sure I blame them@

I agree, inheritance trust funds are managed by trustees, and they decide how the money will be spent: in accordance with the wishes of the person who left behind the assets, not according to the wishes of the person who inherited them. Otherwise, Constance would have inherited the money outright and wouldn't have been living in a tent.

However, rather than seeing this as punishing Constance, it could be seen as a cost saving measure, why pay for something when you can get it from the government for free? She is still relatively young, and has other children, she will need financial support for many decades ahead, and then they'd want the flow of money to continue to her children or other family members (not her current partner).

JMO

 

[CaptainNancy]

Not sure. It would be fairly normal for the terms of the trust to allow for the interest / yield to be used as an annual allowance for the beneficiary. We are 3/4 of the way through the financial year and splashing out on a top barrrister for magistrates court and other legal expenses may well have used up the annual allowance.

 

[CaptainNancy]

Also, being an ‘aristocrat’ and having a trust fund do not automatically add up to being particularly wealthy these days. Didn’t her father renounce his title and money? And start a small company recording whale song or something? Doubt he rakes it in! Divorces are expensive, country houses are money pits, and a trust fund can be for big or small amounts. Just a way of managing tax, usually.

 

[rightsaidfred]

Also, being an ‘aristocrat’ and having a trust fund do not automatically add up to being particularly wealthy these days. Didn’t her father renounce his title and money? And start a small company recording whale song or something? Doubt he rakes it in! Divorces are expensive, country houses are money pits, and a trust fund can be for big or small amounts. Just a way of managing tax, usually.

You're not wrong. I looked up what happened to the local Baron, whose family seat is now a National Trust property. Found him living in a one bed flat in Chelsea - a very modest flat in a very expensive location.

However, the house where Constance grew up is now someone else's money pit; it was sold for a reported £34m ten years ago (with the whole estate being worth a reported £100m). Even split six ways, that's £5.6m / £16.6m to Napier Marten. I suspect they went from asset rich and cash poor to the opposite.

If he has even a shred of common sense when it comes to estate planning / reducing inheritance tax - and these types usually do - then most of that money will have been placed into trust funds etc.

Of course we don't know how much is in the trust fund of which Constance is a beneficiary, but (apart from Constance) I don't think they're exactly living like common people out of necessity (or at all)

American billionaire buys Crichel House

AN AMERICAN billionaire has bought historic Crichel House more than two years after it was put on the market.

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk

Her brother's wedding was featured in Vogue last year, which also doesn't exactly scream poverty

A Romantic Late Summer Wedding at St. Giles House in Dorset, England

The bride designed her own dress inspired by the architecture of their historic wedding venue.

www.vogue.com

 

[Telltale]

You're not wrong. I looked up what happened to the local Baron, whose family seat is now a National Trust property. Found him living in a one bed flat in Chelsea - a very modest flat in a very expensive location.

However, the house where Constance grew up is now someone else's money pit; it was sold for a reported £34m ten years ago (with the whole estate being worth a reported £100m). Even split six ways, that's £5.6m / £16.6m to Napier Marten. I suspect they went from asset rich and cash poor to the opposite.

If he has even a shred of common sense when it comes to estate planning / reducing inheritance tax - and these types usually do - then most of that money will have been placed into trust funds etc.

Of course we don't know how much is in the trust fund of which Constance is a beneficiary, but (apart from Constance) I don't think they're exactly living like common people out of necessity (or at all)

American billionaire buys Crichel House

AN AMERICAN billionaire has bought historic Crichel House more than two years after it was put on the market.

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk

Her brother's wedding was featured in Vogue last year, which also doesn't exactly scream poverty

A Romantic Late Summer Wedding at St. Giles House in Dorset, England

The bride designed her own dress inspired by the architecture of their historic wedding venue.

www.vogue.com

I think the older brother sold the property after the dad gave up the estate and pissed off to Australia to have a midlife crisis.

Redirect Notice

If the dad followed the traditional rules of inheritance, the older brother would have inherited the majority of the family wealth when he got the estate. Constance and any younger siblings would have access to trusts etc, maybe smaller properties, but I doubt what they got was of equivalent value.

I mean they'll hardly be set up to struggle, but generally the spares are expected to leverage their connections and expensive education to make or marry their own money.

It's very Downton Abbey, but it still happens among the aristocratic lot (especially if there's a title involved.) Unfair as it may be, you don't keep those massive estates together down the generations by following equitable rules of inheritance.

TLDR. I'd not be surprised if the oldest brother got the whole estate (which he promptly sold.) Whether he then divided the profits among his siblings or topped up their trusts is impossible to say, but he was likely in a position where, lawfully, he didn't have to.

 

[Doughy]

Trial of aristocrat Constance Marten and partner Mark Gordon delayed

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon have pleaded not guilty to manslaughter over the death of their newborn

www.independent.co.uk

They were due to stand trial at London’s Old Bailey on 2 January but at a hearing at the same court on Tuesday, it was pushed back until 15 January.

 

[Cardgame]

You're not wrong. I looked up what happened to the local Baron, whose family seat is now a National Trust property. Found him living in a one bed flat in Chelsea - a very modest flat in a very expensive location.

However, the house where Constance grew up is now someone else's money pit; it was sold for a reported £34m ten years ago (with the whole estate being worth a reported £100m). Even split six ways, that's £5.6m / £16.6m to Napier Marten. I suspect they went from asset rich and cash poor to the opposite.

If he has even a shred of common sense when it comes to estate planning / reducing inheritance tax - and these types usually do - then most of that money will have been placed into trust funds etc.

Of course we don't know how much is in the trust fund of which Constance is a beneficiary, but (apart from Constance) I don't think they're exactly living like common people out of necessity (or at all)

American billionaire buys Crichel House

AN AMERICAN billionaire has bought historic Crichel House more than two years after it was put on the market.

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk

Her brother's wedding was featured in Vogue last year, which also doesn't exactly scream poverty

A Romantic Late Summer Wedding at St. Giles House in Dorset, England

The bride designed her own dress inspired by the architecture of their historic wedding venue.

www.vogue.com

One bed flat in Chelsea is worth more than the average person makes in a lifetime.

Prob still 1%.

 

[rightsaidfred]

One bed flat in Chelsea is worth more than the average person makes in a lifetime.

Prob still 1%.

From memory it was worth about £900k - but it was purchased about 20 years ago when house prices were much lower.

Of course it's pricey and clearly he has chosen the location and sacrificed the size of the property. No one is trying to suggest he's destitute, but I also don't think most people picture a Baron living in a one bed flat, even if it is in a posh postcode!

 

[JTT]

Loony ticks.

I wish they'd be tried separately so they couldn't use court days to make googly eyes. They aren't in 7th grade; they're on trial for serious charges. I'd like to see the judge be less polite. The courtroom is no place for middle school socializing.

JMO

If two defendants accused of working together to commit crimes are tried separately, there is a possibility of different verdicts on what is essentially the same evidence.

 

[JTT]

Aristocrat who 'killed baby' has taxpayer-funded defence after trust fund fails



Sounds - massively reading between the lines - that her family have lost patience with her. Perhaps they thought that she'd come to her senses re Gordon after this, but hasn't. MOO.

Perhaps whoever controls the trust fund thought shelling out for legal representation and advice that's more expensive than she'd receive on legal aid was unlikely to be value for money because the verdict is bound to be X. Perhaps she told them so.

Will she still have a KC?

And out of interest, which side of the family is the money on? Do we know the fund is on her father's side or is this surmise?

 

[Nikynoo]

Perhaps whoever controls the trust fund thought shelling out for legal representation and advice that's more expensive than she'd receive on legal aid was unlikely to be value for money because the verdict is bound to be X. Perhaps she told them so.

Will she still have a KC?

And out of interest, which side of the family is the money on? Do we know the fund is on her father's side or is this surmise?

Really, it depends on the trust and what costs that trust will cover. Usually they are set up for living costs and education.

Yes, both will get a KC, but this will be publicly funded. It could be that she will retains the same KC, but will change to a firm of solicitors that take legal aid cases. Not all legal firms take legal aid cases, but I do not think that the same rules apply to barristers. You need a legal firm to instruct a barrister (usually).

I always thought that the money was on the fathers side - but for all we know, it could have been the step-father (who is also wealthy) who was funding the defence.