UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #22

[Mellowmelly]

Or he could have just stayed in the area of the horseshoe until much later on, i.e. past the time the CCTV was checked up to. Was it 4pm Saturday? Can't remember now...

Yes, he could have been held there by somebody against his will , then taken out in a vehicle, I know it sounds far fetched but I think possible.

 

[Mellowmelly]

IIRC, they traced all the vehicles and spoke to the owners, one of whom had no legitimate reason to be there, according to NU:

"She said four vehicles had entered the area where her son was last seen and said she believed one of them did not have a legitimate reason to be there."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rrie-mckeague-says-he-was-social-hand-grenade

That suggests the possibility that the driver has something to hide, but could be entirely innocent, or at least irrelevant.

Following on from what JustJo said, I think SP have been accepting what people tell them too easily and too often - as shown by the wrong bin weight, which took ~5 months to come to light.

On the other hand, they apparently dismissed the sighting at Fiveways because there was too little detail, they say.

I think that must have been what I read, that he had no reason to be there.
I hope they haven’t just been taking people’s word for it without checking into it.

 

[Antonia]

New to this thread. I did not read all 22 previous threads to this case. I hope I don't bother you by asking a few questions.

What is LF? What is the horseshoe? I can guess what a lorry is. Being American, some of these terms are confusing but I hope to get the hang of them.

Thank you in advance for your patience.

Hi Seajay,

LF is landfill - the landfill site at Milton near Cambridge that SP (Suffolk Police) have been searching recently and earlier this year.

The Horseshoe is an area in the centre of Bury St Edmunds at the back of some shops - it's the last place Corrie is known to be, shown on CCTV. If this works, the centre of this map (the area between Gregg's and Moyse's Hall Museum) https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...c5a454f74184a036!8m2!3d52.2463599!4d0.7137657

The Media Thread might help fill you in on some details:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...munds-24-September-2016-Media-*NO-DISCUSSION*

 

[Miss_French]

Also the UK's premier CBRN defence unit. Transferred to them with the SDSR 2011, along with a squad in 3rdMD.

Work closely with Special Forces Support Group.

Also heavily trained in electronic warfare, 'jamming' etc.

Not something you learn in basic mind you.

Some top troops all round in the RAF Regt; they would regularly kick against the US forces on Defender Challenge.

Not that I'm biased, but one of my besties was team manager for several (winning) years!

 

[Miss_French]

Yes, he could have been held there by somebody against his will , then taken out in a vehicle, I know it sounds far fetched but I think possible.

Focus 12 was forensically checked, and the rest of the buildings forming the HS are Moyses Hall Museum and shops, with storage/offices on upper floors. Bit different trying to manage a 'hostage' in a commercial property to a residence.

As an aside, alarms were checked by SP and nothing was switched off that would have indicated C going into a building in the early hours, before normal opening time.

 

[Cherwell]

IIRC, they traced all the vehicles and spoke to the owners, one of whom had no legitimate reason to be there, according to NU:

"She said four vehicles had entered the area where her son was last seen and said she believed one of them did not have a legitimate reason to be there."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...rrie-mckeague-says-he-was-social-hand-grenade

That suggests the possibility that the driver has something to hide, but could be entirely innocent, or at least irrelevant.

The language she uses there is misleading, I feel. Three vehicles were there for work purposes:
1. The bin lorry.
2. A vehicle making a delivery to (I think) Superdrug.
3. A car belonging to a Superdrug staff member who was there to receive the delivery.

The presence of the fourth vehicle was not related to work. It's a public thoroughfare and there's no reason to assume its purpose was not "legitimate". There is a suggestion that it belonged to a member of the USAF, possibly on the way home from a night out.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The American link keeps coming back up, doesn't it?

 

[Seajay]

Hi Seajay,

LF is landfill - the landfill site at Milton near Cambridge that SP (Suffolk Police) have been searching recently and earlier this year.

The Horseshoe is an area in the centre of Bury St Edmunds at the back of some shops - it's the last place Corrie is known to be, shown on CCTV. If this works, the centre of this map (the area between Gregg's and Moyse's Hall Museum) https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...c5a454f74184a036!8m2!3d52.2463599!4d0.7137657

The Media Thread might help fill you in on some details:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...munds-24-September-2016-Media-*NO-DISCUSSION*

Thank you so much Antonia. It's been a big help. Boy, this family has been through hell trying everything to find Corrie. The police have been too. They have been working hard and diligently to find out what's happened to Corrie.

So leaving on his own has pretty much been ruled out.
With no further sightings on CCTV, it is assumed he left the area on wheels, but have not been able to verify that.
Its also being ruled out that Corrie was with his cell phone when it took its ride through Mildenhall area with the trash truck (my American term.)

This doesn't leave a lot of possibilities and someone with answers hasn't come forward with them yet.

Already, I am finding myself emotionally invested in this case and this young man.

It's been over a year now since he went missing and I fear he is no longer with us. How disturbing this is.

 

[Taskforce88]

The American link keeps coming back up, doesn't it?

What's your thinking on that?

 

[Shiressleuth]

The RAF Regiment Trainee Gunner course doesn't do anything covert. They do lots of physical fitness, weapons training, battlefield tactics (lots of digging trenches, map reading, moving in formation, arcs of fire, patrolling). C didn't learn about crisp packets or avoiding cctv or disguises in the RAF.

Well he did manage some covert ops hooking up via the Internet........

 

[Shiressleuth]

Also the UK's premier CBRN defence unit. Transferred to them with the SDSR 2011, along with a squad in 3rdMD.

Work closely with Special Forces Support Group.

Also heavily trained in electronic warfare, 'jamming' etc.

Not something you learn in basic mind you.

So you're saying he could have learnt about electronic stuff like a crisp packet Faraday cage for a phone? Or not?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

What's your thinking on that?

Nothing, just a minor hink really. Corrie was usually out with an American friend (who actually was in the RAF with Corrie as he's half British), he met an American acquaintance in the pizza place, rumours of a USAF vehicle, possible party going on that night near Mildenhall. Just seems like a lot of American-ness going on in one night!

I'm equally suspicious (ie only a teeny bit) about the bin driver / staff at Red Lodge / lorry park nearby.

I think Corrie could have got out of the lorry further along, minus his phone, and had an accident trying to get home. I wouldn't be shocked at all if he was found in some random pond somewhere between A and B.

Basically I haven't got a scooby and I'm tired and rambling and this case is just soooo frustrating. Solve it by morning please!

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Surely if you wanted to conceal the location of a phone, you'd just switch it off? Presumably the crisp packet would stop it receiving calls as well as stopping it pinging. Okay, I can see why people might use a crisp packet instead of switching it on and off frequently, but if I just wanted to conceal where I disposed of a phone, I'd just switch it off and take it somewhere else. ...or did I hear something about phones still communicating when switched off?

Phones are still "visible" to the network when switched off until the battery goes flat, they are destroyed or, as we now know, their signal is cut off by a Faraday cage in some form or other.

Also, if he had used a crisp packet, presumably that would have to have been at whatever time after 8am the phone stopped pinging?

Yes, AFAIK.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Or he could have just stayed in the area of the horseshoe until much later on, i.e. past the time the CCTV was checked up to. Was it 4pm Saturday? Can't remember now...

Also some cams we never knew if there was footage or were even working. E.g.thornhill and CSC rear cams.

Good to see renewed interest here on the thread.

Welcome to any new posters and welcome back all the oldies and regulars.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Well he did manage some covert ops hooking up via the Internet........

It also appears that the crisp packet dodge is more widely known than one might imagine. Just because you or I didn't know about it doesn't mean lots of others didn't. In fact I'd say that not being contactable by one's employer or girlfriend when you don't want to be seems to be exactly the sort of information that is likely to be shared between young men.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Focus 12 was forensically checked, and the rest of the buildings forming the HS are Moyses Hall Museum and shops, with storage/offices on upper floors. Bit different trying to manage a 'hostage' in a commercial property to a residence.

As an aside, alarms were checked by SP and nothing was switched off that would have indicated C going into a building in the early hours, before normal opening time.

Any link for the F12 forensic check? I don't think that ever happened did it? Also, did they confirm whether any residents were there that night?
Is there a link for the alarms check too?
Could there have been an abduction gone wrong? I.e.Marham type snatch but something went wrong.

 

[Shiressleuth]

The language she uses there is misleading, I feel. Three vehicles were there for work purposes:
1. The bin lorry.
2. A vehicle making a delivery to (I think) Superdrug.
3. A car belonging to a Superdrug staff member who was there to receive the delivery.

The presence of the fourth vehicle was not related to work. It's a public thoroughfare and there's no reason to assume its purpose was not "legitimate". There is a suggestion that it belonged to a member of the USAF, possibly on the way home from a night out.

Just because they were work vehicles doesn't mean they shouldn't all have been fully checked out, like the bin lorry was. Do we accept he couldn't have hung on to the outside somewhere? Some bin trucks actually have spaces for the bin men to stand and ride at the back - what sort of bin lorry was it exactly? Are SP going to go over it all again I wonder?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Nothing, just a minor hink really. Corrie was usually out with an American friend (who actually was in the RAF with Corrie as he's half British), he met an American acquaintance in the pizza place, rumours of a USAF vehicle, possible party going on that night near Mildenhall. Just seems like a lot of American-ness going on in one night!

Also not forgetting that part of his reported plans earlier in the evening included going to a party in a house occupied by a USAF couple near the golf course in BSE. For obvious reasons we don't know exactly where that house was.

IIRC some of our earliest speculation centred around him going to a party at Mildenhall air base or at a private address and something happening to him there, eg he died of an OD.

I'm equally suspicious (ie only a teeny bit) about the bin driver / staff at Red Lodge / lorry park nearby.

Suspicious about the lorry driver, yes. I think there are still questions to be answered there.

However I don't think we've ever heard anything about the staff at the waste transfer station. Maybe they've not been properly investigated yet since SP seem to have been focused on the landfill for at least the past 6 months.

One question would be whether refuse from that site only went to the landfill at Milton or whether it could have been sent elsewhere, eg for incineration (though some searches have been made of incinerated waste already) or to a different landfill site.

What's this about the lorry park? I seem to have missed that.

I think Corrie could have got out of the lorry further along, minus his phone, and had an accident trying to get home. I wouldn't be shocked at all if he was found in some random pond somewhere between A and B.

That's theoretically possible of course, but as we discussed very early in the case there are very few such bodies of water and the main one, Ampton Water, was searched by police, including divers, within a week or so of him going missing. The only other one on his likely route between BSE and base is Broad Mere close to the main gate at RAF Honington and I've not seen anything saying that was searched.

Very early on we also discussed briefly whether he could have tried to walk back to base from Barton Mills roundabout, where the possible sighting of him was, and whether he could have come to grief in one of the ponds at the Suffolk Wildlife Trust site at West Stow. However I suspect if he had gone into one of the ponds there his body would have been found by now.

You may recall we also discovered that there are a number of dogging sites in that area which at the time seemed to be relevant.

 

[Bedouin]

Shire, If it was an abduction, why do you say it went wrong? There's no trace of Corrie and they have managed to do it without being seen or leaving any trace.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Shire, If it was an abduction, why do you say it went wrong? There's no trace of Corrie and they have managed to do it without being seen or leaving any trace.

I am only saying it went wrong because he is missing. I meant for example , if he had exited the HS unseen and started walking then been taken/incapacited into a vehicle and either died during a later struggle or before anything was planned. I know, far fetched. But there was also some talk of an argument with travellers by a look a like and don't travellers run the red Lodge site, judging by prior planning apps for a travellers site there?