UK- Costessey, 4 People Found Dead In Home

[Dotta]

"Police launch 'triple-murder suicide' probe in Norwich:​

Detectives are treating deaths of woman, 36, and two girls, eight and 12, ​

as murder as post-mortem reveals all three died of stab wounds."​

Police treating deaths of woman and two girls in Norwich as murder

The force said it was treating the deaths of Kanticha Sukpengpanao, Jasmin Kuczynska and Natasha Kuczynska as murder after they were discovered with stab wounds to their necks.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[JennieM]

I think it’s so sad as it’s clear that he felt he was losing control and he did try to get help. Unfortunately there are not enough resources anymore and many people don’t get the help they need. Most cases are of course not as extreme as this, but many people suffer as a result of all the budgeting cuts etc. It’s not just the police that needs to be investigated in this instance IMO.

 

[Dotta]

I think it’s so sad as it’s clear that he felt he was losing control and he did try to get help. Unfortunately there are not enough resources anymore and many people don’t get the help they need. Most cases are of course not as extreme as this, but many people suffer as a result of all the budgeting cuts etc. It’s not just the police that needs to be investigated in this instance IMO.

Well,
Many people (in my country) go private if they want help immediately, rather than waiting for our NHS.

NHS visits are free, but there are waiting lists - only emergencies are "cito".

I mean specialists.
Because GP is available the same day.

 

[JennieM]

Norwich deaths: Girls died of knife wounds

Bartlomiej Kuczynski, 45, Jasmin Kuczynska, 12, and eight-year-old Natasha Kuczynska were found dead by police officers in Costessey on Friday

[…]

He said he was confused and worried about his mental state.

It is understood he was advised to seek medical advice and contact the NHS on 111.

[…]

The police previously said Natasha was nine years old, which they later corrected.

Norwich deaths: Girls died of knife wounds

The deaths of two girls and a woman at the house are being treated as murder, police say.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JennieM]

Death of woman and girls at Norwich house being treated as murder, say police

Death of woman and girls at Norwich house being treated as murder, say police

Girls aged eight and 12 and a 36-year-old woman died from knife wounds to the neck

www.theguardian.com

 

[Dotta]

"Why do people commit murder-suicides?​

What kind of motivation can be behind these acts?​

As with other forms of murder, the motivations for murder-suicide
(which academic researchers refer to as homicide-suicide) are extremely diverse.

There is no simple explanation –
complex psychological mechanisms underpin these acts, which are not fully understood.
..........
What makes family murder-suicide different from other cases?

Filicide-suicides –
where a parent takes the life of their child or children as well as their own –
are commonly motivated by altruistic motives.

This is often driven by a desire to ease a child’s suffering, based on actual medical conditions or delusional beliefs that the child is in danger.

When a parent is experiencing suicidal thoughts, they often consider their child an extension of themselves.
They may have a desire to not abandon the child, or leave them behind to face the world alone without a parent."
............

Expert Q&A: why do people commit murder-suicides?

There are many different reasons why men and women commit these acts, but the small number of cases makes it difficult to track.

theconversation.com

 

[Megnut]

"Why do people commit murder-suicides?​

What kind of motivation can be behind these acts?​

As with other forms of murder, the motivations for murder-suicide
(which academic researchers refer to as homicide-suicide) are extremely diverse.

There is no simple explanation –
complex psychological mechanisms underpin these acts, which are not fully understood.
..........
What makes family murder-suicide different from other cases?

Filicide-suicides –
where a parent takes the life of their child or children as well as their own –
are commonly motivated by altruistic motives.

This is often driven by a desire to ease a child’s suffering, based on actual medical conditions or delusional beliefs that the child is in danger.

When a parent is experiencing suicidal thoughts, they often consider their child an extension of themselves.
They may have a desire to not abandon the child, or leave them behind to face the world alone without a parent."
............

Expert Q&A: why do people commit murder-suicides?

There are many different reasons why men and women commit these acts, but the small number of cases makes it difficult to track.

theconversation.com

Referring to the article, not the OP:

I really wish that article would have qualified "altruistic". Misguided altruism. Delusional altruism. Clouded altruism.

"Altruism" as a stand alone sits ugly with me.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

Referring to the article, not the OP:

I really wish that article would have qualified "altruistic". Misguided altruism. Delusional altruism. Clouded altruism.

"Altruism" as a stand alone sits ugly with me.

JMO

We are talking about delusions.
Mental health issues, feeling disorientated, feeling confused.
The murderer was sick.
Seriously so.
Not so long ago he was wandering aimlessly in the woods.

JMO

 

[Skigh]

Father who stabbed children and sister-in-law was assessed 'no risk'

Medical staff spoke to Bartlomiej Kuczynski, 45, when police brought him in after finding him near his home following a missing person report. But they concluded he was no risk to himself or others.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The father who stabbed his two young children and sister-in-law to death before turning the knife on himself had undergone a 'detailed' mental health assessment at a hospital just a month earlier, it has emerged.

Medical staff spoke to Bartlomiej Kuczynski, 45, when police brought him in after finding him near his home following a missing person report.

But they concluded he was no risk to himself or others and he left Norfolk and Norwich University Hospital unaccompanied later the same day.

A spokeswoman for the hospital in Norwich said: 'He did have quite a detailed, comprehensive assessment.

'Normally, if you come to A&E they'll triage you first then you see someone. Because he was brought in by police there was an assessment but he left after a couple of hours. There was no reason to detain him in the hospital.'

The question of whether warning signs could have been spotted earlier will probably feature in an inquest into the deaths.

Kuczynski's wife, Thai-born Nanthaka Kuczynska, works at Norfolk and Norwich Hospital where she is understood to be a healthcare assistant.

 

[Dotta]

If it was reported by neighbours that he was seeking help,
THIS was his perfect opportunity
(when Police brought him to hospital).
To complain about some problems and ask for treatment.
I think he would have been helped then.

But, maybe, he was oblivious of his state.

JMO

 

[dalsglen]

If it was reported by neighbours that he was seeking help,
THIS was his perfect opportunity
(when Police brought him to hospital).
To complain about some problems and ask for treatment.
I think he would have been helped then.

But, maybe, he was oblivious of his state.

JMO

I worked in community mental health for years. Respectfully this very very rarely happens in the UK. There is very little mental health support, I've seen actively suicidal people sent away from a&e and be told someone will call next week. Private consultations are also months long atm due to the hell that is the NHS and unaffordable to the masses.

 

[JennieM]

22 minutes ago

Norwich deaths: Police took father to hospital weeks before stabbings

A spokesperson for the hospital said: "We can confirm that the patient was taken to the emergency department by police on December 14.

"Following a comprehensive clinical assessment, the patient was assessed as having mental capacity and he left the unit before being reviewed again by the team."

Norwich deaths: Police took father to hospital weeks before stabbings

Bartlomiej Kuczynski was taken to hospital by police the day he was reported missing, it is revealed.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Dotta]

I worked in community mental health for years. Respectfully this very very rarely happens in the UK. There is very little mental health support, I've seen actively suicidal people sent away from a&e and be told someone will call next week. Private consultations are also months long atm due to the hell that is the NHS and unaffordable to the masses.

I see.

Hmmm...
I think the number of population is the key.

The UK - nearly 70 million
Poland - 38 million

NHS is not made of rubber.
It has its limits.

In Poland, people also complain but private visits although expensive are, nevertheless, affordable.
The price depends on doctor's speciality.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

"What drove a father to murder his two daughters and their aunt then turn the knife on himself?​

'Confused' killer's 999 call,​

mystery over missing persons probe ​

and the questions police face over how they could have stopped the tragedy."​

Inside 'murder-suicide' that left two sisters, father and aunt dead

Bartlomiej Kuczynski, 45, his daughters Jasmin, 12, and Natasha, eight, and his sister-in-law, Kanticha Sukpengpanao, 36, were all found dead from stab wounds in Costessey, near Norwich.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Skigh]

From the Mail report posted above:

In a strange twist, it has emerged that Mr Kuczynski's wife, Thai-born Nanthaka Kuczynska, works at the very hospital where he was assessed and released on December 14. She is understood to be a healthcare assistant there.

Her whereabouts last Friday remain unclear. Some neighbours have said they had not seen her for months. But since then there have been claims she was seen de-icing her car outside the house early on the morning her family was wiped out.

If he had been that worried about his health ,he could have asked his wife to take him to the hospital where she worked.

 

[JennieM]

From the Mail report posted above:

In a strange twist, it has emerged that Mr Kuczynski's wife, Thai-born Nanthaka Kuczynska, works at the very hospital where he was assessed and released on December 14. She is understood to be a healthcare assistant there.

Her whereabouts last Friday remain unclear. Some neighbours have said they had not seen her for months. But since then there have been claims she was seen de-icing her car outside the house early on the morning her family was wiped out.

If he had been that worried about his health ,he could have asked his wife to take him to the hospital where she worked.

That’s confusing as it possibly means it would have been easier for him to get help?

 

[Dotta]

"The family found dead at their home in Costessey

had recently been in contact with the social services department at Norfolk County Council,

it has emerged.

It is now understood that Norfolk County Council's social services department also had recent contact with the household.

A council spokeswoman said:
'As police investigations are at an early stage,
it would be inappropriate for us to comment at this time.

This is such a distressing and sad case and our thoughts are with everyone affected'."

Costessey deaths family had 'recent contact' with social services

There had been recent contact between the family found dead at their Costessey home and Norfolk County Council's social services department, it has…

www.eveningnews24.co.uk

 

[Dotta]

"Costessey killer was known to NHS mental health services.​

Costessey man who killed his two daughters and their aunt was known to mental health services before the murders, it has been confirmed.

Neighbours say he had been struggling with mental health problems for months before the tragedy and had been seeking help.

Until now, the Norfolk and Suffolk NHS Foundation Trust (NSFT) - which provides mental health services - had refused to reveal whether it had any dealings with the father-of-two, despite coming under pressure from MPs to do so.

But it has now confirmed that he was known to staff.

It also clarified that he was a patient before he went missing on December 14."

Mental health bosses admit Costessey killer WAS known to them

Bartlomiej Kuczynski, who killed his two daughters and their aunt, was known to mental health services, it has been confirmed.

www.edp24.co.uk

 

[Dotta]

"Costessey deaths show need for inquiry into local NHS trust, say families.​

Campaigners call for Norfolk and Suffolk trust to be disbanded after killings linked to man with mental health issues.

The families of people who have died in the care of Norfolk and Suffolk mental health services
have said the tragic case of a man believed to have killed himself and his family underlines the need for a statutory inquiry into the NHS trust.

Norfolk and Suffolk NHS foundation trust (NSFT) has confirmed it had prior contact with Kuczynski before the killings.

The trust was already being scrutinised over the

unexpected deaths of 8,440 of patients
or former patients

in a three-and-a-half-year period.

The Campaign to Save Mental Health Services in Norfolk and Suffolk,
whose members include people who have family members who killed themselves while under NSFT care,
said the Costessey deaths highlighted the need for the trust to be disbanded and replaced
and its failures to be subject to a statutory inquiry."

Costessey deaths show need for inquiry into local NHS trust, say families | Norfolk | The Guardian

amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org

"The horrific deaths of four people in a Costessey home have prompted calls for a public inquiry."

Calls for public inquiry grow after Costessey killings

The deaths of four people in a Costessey home has prompted a call for a public inquiry into the state of Norfolk's mental health support.

www.edp24.co.uk

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Norfolk area coroner Samantha Goward appeared to begin to cry as she first opened the inquest into the death of eight-year-old Natasha Kuczynska, who died at a house in Costessey.

The child was found with her 12-year-old sister Jasmin Kuczynska, father Bartlomiej Kuczynski, 45, and auntie Kanticha Sukpengpanao, 36, at the house on January 19.

Ms Goward apologised to those in attendance at the hearing in Norwich this morning as she appeared to battle the tears when reading that schoolgirl Natasha died from stab wounds to the neck, before reaching for a tissue.

Natasha's provisional medical cause of death was recorded as 'sharp force injuries of the neck'.

The coroner said Jasmin, who was also a school pupil, died of an 'incised wound of the neck'.

She said that structural engineer Mr Kuczynski, who was born in Poland, died of a 'stab wound to the neck' and was found at his home address.

Coroner fights back tears as she opens Norwich house deaths inquests

Samantha Goward appeared to begin to cry as she opened the inquest into the death of Natasha Kuczynska, 8, who died at a house in Costessey with three other family members.

www.dailymail.co.uk