UK UK - Deborah Linsley stabbed to death on a train to London Victoria, 23 March 1988

[tes1984]

The killer could have committed suicide... or been sent to an institution for later violence, which wasn't ever linked to Debbie Linsley.

Even if he was caught for another murder, or rape or knife attack, between 1988 and 1995, then he probably wouldn't have had his DNA taken.

 

[Westchester76]

This is such a strange case. A lot I suppose is resting on the French Au Pair who reported the screaming. I have no doubt that there would've been screaming, but in case she mistook the stations it happened between. Also has it ever been stated the station she got on at? Whoever committed this offence was either incredibly lucky or incredibly well prepared.

The French Au Pair has caught a lot of flack for not pulling the emergency cord. If she had, Debbie would still have lost her life, as the killer was in mid-attack. Had the train stopped, he would of made a run for it across the tracks (which he may of done anyway prior to the train arriving at Victoria). However, it may of lead to witnesses seeing the murderer.

 

[dotr]

2012 rbbm

Britain's top 15 unsolved murders which are baffling police

MailOnline takes a look at some of the most horrific unsolved murders in the UK in an effort to help police find their killers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Yard reopens 1988 train murder case

Scotland Yard has reopened a 14-year-old investigation into the murder of a woman on a commuter train.

www.standard.co.uk

''Today, however, detectives announced a DNA breakthrough that could identify the murderer.
They have resubmitted bloodstains from the murder scene to the Forensic Science Service which, using sensitive, new techniques, has pinpointed the killer's "genetic fingerprint".

''Her body was found slumped in a closed compartment in a pool of blood when a porter checked the carriage 10 minutes after it arrived at Victoria. She had been stabbed up to 11 times - in the face, neck, chest and abdomen.''

''Detectives were never quite sure when the killer struck. Debbie had time to smoke two cigarettes on the 30-minute journey and a French au pair, who was in the adjoining compartment, heard a woman's screams just after the train left Brixton''

''Police have already checked the DNA profile against the national database without success. Keith Chamberlain, a former Scotland Yard detective who has been brought out of retirement to investigate unsolved murders, said: "At the time of Deborah's murder in 1988, DNA testing was a relatively new forensic technique.
"We believe that we have the DNA of the suspect from blood recovered at the scene and I would urge anyone who has any information to come forward."

 

[jojojaja]

During the 80s there were thousands of severely ill mental outpatients travelling around London unsupervised.

Most serial killers avoid daytime attacks, busy locations etc as obviously they don't want to be witnessed and caught.

Still are, people with psychosis who either stop taking meds or their meds need adjusting, mental health services can't force them to take it unless they commit some sectional offence. I remember a few of those sectional offences taking place at stations and on the underground including someone being pushed in front of a train by someone with psychosis at Highbury and Islington.

Perfect case for genealogical DNA tracing

last time I checked that hasn't been made legal in the UK.

 

[dotr]

Lyndsey Fletcher 30 January 2024

Genetic mysteries: Should your data be used to solve crimes? - Front Line Genomics

We explore the role of genomics to solve crimes, and the moral questions that have popped up as technology advances.

frontlinegenomics.com

''In the case of the Swedish pilot study, it was ultimately decided that the benefit of removing a violent criminal from the streets outweighed the concerns around privacy. After the case was concluded, a report stated that the method was effective enough to warrant use in the ‘right circumstances’ with ‘extreme care’. But where can we draw the line between public safety, and personal safety when it comes to our data?

In the UK and most European countries, the processes involved in this method are still unregulated, whilst in Germany the analysis used in investigative genetic genealogy is explicitly illegal. Additionally, most genetic databases still require a warrant for access and where this isn’t the case, individuals can typically opt-out of data being shared with law enforcement. In the EU, all individuals are automatically opted-out in line with GDPR. It is therefore no surprise that investigative genetic genealogy has been used far more extensively in the US''.
2020

Should we be making use of genetic genealogy to assist in solving crime? A report on the feasibility of such methods in the UK (accessible version)

www.gov.uk

 

[jojojaja]

Lyndsey Fletcher 30 January 2024

Genetic mysteries: Should your data be used to solve crimes? - Front Line Genomics

We explore the role of genomics to solve crimes, and the moral questions that have popped up as technology advances.

frontlinegenomics.com

''In the case of the Swedish pilot study, it was ultimately decided that the benefit of removing a violent criminal from the streets outweighed the concerns around privacy. After the case was concluded, a report stated that the method was effective enough to warrant use in the ‘right circumstances’ with ‘extreme care’. But where can we draw the line between public safety, and personal safety when it comes to our data?

In the UK and most European countries, the processes involved in this method are still unregulated, whilst in Germany the analysis used in investigative genetic genealogy is explicitly illegal. Additionally, most genetic databases still require a warrant for access and where this isn’t the case, individuals can typically opt-out of data being shared with law enforcement. In the EU, all individuals are automatically opted-out in line with GDPR. It is therefore no surprise that investigative genetic genealogy has been used far more extensively in the US''.
2020

Should we be making use of genetic genealogy to assist in solving crime? A report on the feasibility of such methods in the UK (accessible version)

www.gov.uk

I think you have the option here when having your DNA entered into certain genealogy sites to not share with anyone else and just see where in the world your genealogy covers (I think if your female it mostly checks your mother's genes etc). Or you can share to find relatives. The police aren't interested in relatives of the perp, just trying to find identity of the person they're searching. I think many can live with that.

 

[Westchester76]

If the police, (as they claim) have the correct DNA of the killer, I would assume he must be from abroad.

It was such a savage murder, the culprit would surely of killed (or attempted to) after this, probably numerous times.

I am going on the assumption that all murderers locked up in the UK have their DNA on file, so it would of been checked against those. I might be wrong though.

The Crimewatch reconstruction mentioned the England v Netherlands game being on that evening at Wembley. Seems a strange thing to raise, unless there might be some intel behind it. There are plenty of events happening in London every night.

 

[jojojaja]

If the police, (as they claim) have the correct DNA of the killer, I would assume he must be from abroad.

It was such a savage murder, the culprit would surely of killed (or attempted to) after this, probably numerous times.

I am going on the assumption that all murderers locked up in the UK have their DNA on file, so it would of been checked against those. I might be wrong though.

The Crimewatch reconstruction mentioned the England v Netherlands game being on that evening at Wembley. Seems a strange thing to raise, unless there might be some intel behind it. There are plenty of events happening in London every night.

Mentioning the game can jog people's memories, remind them where they were at what time, what they may have seen.

That thing about people killing can't stop, most especially serial killers, has proven to be wrong after catching some historic murderers who once more is known, they realise home life can influence whether the person stops or starts.
It doesn't mean the urge to do things has stopped. Opportunity is part of it.

 

[jojojaja]

Serial Murder | Federal Bureau of Investigation

www.fbi.gov

We don't know that the person is a serial killer, however if they are, there's some facts from the FBI regarding how serial killers are viewed, what's known now.

 

[tes1984]

If the police, (as they claim) have the correct DNA of the killer, I would assume he must be from abroad.

It was such a savage murder, the culprit would surely of killed (or attempted to) after this, probably numerous times.

I am going on the assumption that all murderers locked up in the UK have their DNA on file, so it would of been checked against those. I might be wrong though.

The Crimewatch reconstruction mentioned the England v Netherlands game being on that evening at Wembley. Seems a strange thing to raise, unless there might be some intel behind it. There are plenty of events happening in London every night.

If then killer had an earlier 1970s murder conviction, then he obviously wouldn't have had a DNA sample taken. If he was caught for something between 1988 and around 1995, then AFAIK there would also be no DNA sample. There's also the possibility that such an offender was a mental patient who was institutionalised soon after 1988.

 

[dotr]

Jay Rayner16 Feb 2003 rbbm lengthy

Gone but not forgotten

The faces of these murder victims may be fading into history, but an elite squad of detectives has been brought out of retirement to find their killers using DNA. Can science succeed where conventional methods have failed?

www.theguardian.com

''In the Linsley case, there was a small sample of blood at the scene that did not belong to the victim, but in 1988 there was no way of testing it. The first successful DNA match wouldn't take place for another year and even then it required a bucketful of blood for any hope of a result. Now they can get a DNA profile from something invisible to the eye, and last year they did so. Chamberlain says they know a lot about the killer from that drop. They just don't know the suspect's name. The DNA profile has been put on a database to be cross-checked against the 1.7 million that are already held there - from recent convictions, from serving prisoners - but there have been no matches.''

''With good reason: there may be a DNA profile but that doesn't necessarily mean the killer is out there to be caught. They are reasonably sure the 'known killer' theory doesn't stand up. They would have picked up something by now about a conflict in Deborah's life. That leaves a stranger. And yet any person who could commit such a ferocious attack would surely have committed other crimes, perhaps not murders, but offences for which at some point he would have been detained. A swab would have been taken. Still the DNA profile has yielded nothing. 'He may be dead,' Chamberlain says.''

The Railway Ripper: The Unsolved Murder of Deborah Linsley • Morbidology

On 23 March, 1988, Deborah Linsley was found stabbed to death on a London train. Despite having a DNA profile of the killer, the murder remains unsolved. Who killed Deborah Linsley?

morbidology.com

''A composite sketch of a man seen acting suspiciously was created and widely circulated, earning the unknown suspect the grim moniker of the “Railway Ripper.” Witnesses described him as being in his late 20s or early 30s, stocky, with shoulder-length, scruffy blonde hair.

The composite sketch.
However, another possible suspect emerged. Reports surfaced of a second man, seen leaving the train at Victoria Station shortly after the murder. This man was described as being around six feet tall, in his 40s, heavily built, with ginger hair and a thin moustache. Witnesses recalled hearing a “commotion” from a carriage in the area where Deborah was killed, further complicating the investigation.6''