GUILTY UK - Det. Leanne McKie, 39, found dead in Cheshire lake, 28 Sept 2017

[Legally Bland]

14:31

Court told couple's combined debt was more than £409,000

​The couple had a joint income of almost £4,000 per month but this left only £82 to be spent at the supermarket, on fuel for their two cars, Sky subscription and insurance while the builders working on house renovations also had to be paid, the court is told.​

Including the mortgage for £294,153, the couple’s combined debt was more than £409,000 by the time Leanne McKie died, the court is told.

In June of 2017 Mr McKie obtained a loan, with the start of payment deferred until the following year, for goods worth £4,915 from The Bath Store, the jurors are told.

Mr McKie paid a £250 deposit but was not expected to pay the first monthly instalment until June 12, 2018, the court hears.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-news/darren-mckie-murder-wife-trial-14368526

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Their joint monthly income was £3,933 although their finances were ‘not straightforward’, Mr Power QC told the jury.

That's not a huge income for a couple with three children, even though their salaries would have been very stable and more or less guaranteed for as long as they wanted, but they certainly should have been able to live OK on it.

The couple had two joint current accounts, five savings accounts, four credit cards, three active loans and six finance agreements as well as a mortgage for the house they had recently moved into, the court was told.

“In short they were living well beyond their means and were under considerable financial pressure, and although that could not be described as a new position the intensity was something that you may say was considerable,” according to the QC.

The couple had amassed debt totalling £103,000, not including their mortgage, and some 26 loan applications had been made for them, many of them declined, the jurors were told.

On one loan application for £54,000 from Fluent Finance, the court was told Insp McKie had to send the couple’s passports as well as proof of earnings including DC McKie’s P60 and payslips he had obtained from his work computer on September 18, 2017.

I have to assume the GMP were not aware of the extent of their financial problems because from where I am sitting they both look as though they could be vulnerable to corruption by criminals or criminal organisations.

I am not a cop, obviously, but I am a member of a professional institute whose rules state categorically that my membership can be suspended or cancelled if I make any arrangement or compromise with a creditor or lender. In some jobs integrity is paramount.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

The court heard that over one eight-year period the couple spent about £30,000 on holidays and flights as well as about £70,000 at supermarkets.

I'm not sure that £70k spent in supermarkets over 8 years is that far out of the ordinary for a family including 3 children, especially if that included nappies and buying children's clothes.

£70,000 / 8 = £8,750 per year, or £168 per week.

With careful planning and budgeting you could probably knock £50 a week off that, but budgeting doesn't seem to have been their forte.

£30,000 spent on holidays - I dunno. I'm guessing that at least one of their children was of school age so taking the kids on holiday would have been at peak season. £30k / 8 = £3,750 per year probably isn't out of the ordinary for a peak season family holiday with 3 kids in a family resort. However whether they could actually afford it, or should have been doing something cheaper like Eurocamp in France, or self-catering, is a matter for consideration.

Some £12,846 of this was spent at M&S, the court is told.

But that is unreasonable. M&S isn't really the place for doing the family weekly shop.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

14:31

Court told couple's combined debt was more than £409,000

​The couple had a joint income of almost £4,000 per month but this left only £82 to be spent at the supermarket, on fuel for their two cars, Sky subscription and insurance while the builders working on house renovations also had to be paid, the court is told.​

Including the mortgage for £294,153, the couple’s combined debt was more than £409,000 by the time Leanne McKie died, the court is told.

It sounds to me as though almost all of their income was going to service their debts. If so, they were in a debt death spiral which is virtually impossible to escape without bankruptcy. Which could well have cost them their jobs.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

It sounds to me as though almost all of their income was going to service their debts. If so, they were in a debt death spiral which is virtually impossible to escape without bankruptcy. Which could well have cost them their jobs.

I ran the unsecured (non-mortgage) debt of £120,000 through a debt calculator to get some idea of what they were facing. I used an average interest rate of 20%, though that would be low for credit card and distress borrowing. The result was that their monthly payments on this debt would be in the region of £2,300 per month over 10 years.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/loan-repayment-calculator-interest-rates

I then ran their £294,000 mortgage through a mortgage calculator:

https://www.hsbc.co.uk/1/2/mortgages/repayment-calculator

The repayment at 7% over 25 years would be another £2,078 a month. At 5% it would have been £1,700 a month.

So on this basis their debts were indeed costing virtually all, if not all, their monthly income.

 

[Legally Bland]

15:26

Couple were spending £1,600 more each month than their income

The court is told that the couple was spending £5,578 per month but their joint income was £3,933 per month.

It meant a shortfall of £1,655 per month not including money owed to tradesmen, the jurors hear.


15:38

Financial analyst quizzed on Darren McKie's spending

The financial analyst, Det Con Condon, is now being questioned by Trevor Burke QC, defending Mr McKie.

The barrister asked if he had found evidence suggesting the couple defaulted on any payments in the financial records going back eight years which had been examined.

The officer said he would need to check and the QC replied: “By all means do so but I think you will find the answer is no.”

Asked whether he had found any evidence the defendant had spent money on ‘selfish’ or ‘extravagant’ items like drugs, drinking or women, the witness said he could not answer the question and asked the barrister to define ‘selfish’.

Mr Burke QC invited the officer to use how own definition and asked again if there had been evidence of spending on ‘drugs, liqour or gambling’.

DC Condon replied: “Not that I’m aware of.”

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-news/darren-mckie-murder-wife-trial-14368526

(Not sure where Burke is going, the financial stress is pretty clear, even without defaulting etc.)

 

[jessie]

It was mentioned earlier that they had 2 current accounts and 5 savings accounts. Curious to know how much was in these savings accounts - and where the deposits for them were coming from.

What would be their net income (after tax + deductions) plus children's allowance, can anyone tell me please?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

It was mentioned earlier that they had 2 current accounts and 5 savings accounts. Curious to know how much was in these savings accounts - and where the deposits for them were coming from.

What would be their net income (after tax + deductions) plus children's allowance, can anyone tell me please?

I have assumed that the £3,900 per month was their joint net income and that their joint gross was around £5,500.

According to this:

http://www.polfed.org/ranks/Inspecting_Ranks_Pay_Scales.aspx

His income alone as a police inspector should be around £50k.

ETA pay scales for a constable:

http://www.polfed.org/ranks/3277.aspx

Leanne could have been on as much as £38k for a long standing constable.

 

[meanmaryjean]

Please tell this American what exactly "M&S" is.

Thank you

 

[Legally Bland]

Please tell this American what exactly "M&S" is.

Thank you

Marks & Spencers. They do nice food, but it's expensive for a weekly grocery shop.

 

[Legally Bland]

16:07

Jury sent home - trial resumes tomorrow

The jury is sent home and trial resumes at 10am tomorrow.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-news/darren-mckie-murder-wife-trial-14368526

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Please tell this American what exactly "M&S" is.

Thank you

Marks & Spencer

http://www.marksandspencer.com

Their food hall is just about top of the range for food in the UK - when M&S closed their branches in Paris about 10 years ago there were near riots.

Their only competitor nationally at that price point is Waitrose.

http://www.waitrose.com/

 

[meanmaryjean]

Marks & Spencer

http://www.marksandspencer.com

Their food hall is just about top of the range for food in the UK - when M&S closed their branches in Paris about 10 years ago there were near riots.

Their only competitor nationally at that price point is Waitrose.

http://www.waitrose.com/

Thank you!

 

[jessie]

I have assumed that the £3,900 per month was their joint net income and that their joint gross was around £5,500.

According to this:

http://www.polfed.org/ranks/Inspecting_Ranks_Pay_Scales.aspx

His income alone as a police inspector should be around £50k.

ETA pay scales for a constable:

http://www.polfed.org/ranks/3277.aspx

Leanne could have been on as much as £38k for a long standing constable.

Thanks, 50K or more sounds about right for an inspector, but Leanne was only working 16 hours a week (over 2 days) so this has to be reflected in her salary?

Found this on hourly rates: https://www.nottinghamshire.police.uk/sites/default/files/documents/files/FOI 005599 14.pdf

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Thanks, 50K or more sounds about right for an inspector, but Leanne was only working 16 hours a week (over 2 days) so this has to be reflected in her salary?

Found this on hourly rates: https://www.nottinghamshire.police.uk/sites/default/files/documents/files/FOI 005599 14.pdf

In that case she was probably on £20k or a little under, which gives them a gross household income of around £70k, and that ties in with the £3,900 monthly joint income quoted in the extracts above. They really should be able to support a reasonable, though not extravagant, lifestyle on that - even with 3 kids.

 

[mrazda71]

I can't help but think so far that it wasn't pre planned cause if it was, he did a rubbish job of getting away with it considering his profession too!

As for the questions about whether or not HIS spending was 'selfish' ... I think the path that's going down is that it was thw wife who was overspending and hge was under pressure to provide, and the added pressure of not being able to admit or get debt help for fear of losing their jobs on top ... Before the point of murder, I'd actually have some sympathy for him!

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I can't help but think so far that it wasn't pre planned cause if it was, he did a rubbish job of getting away with it considering his profession too!

As for the questions about whether or not HIS spending was 'selfish' ... I think the path that's going down is that it was thw wife who was overspending and hge was under pressure to provide, and the added pressure of not being able to admit or get debt help for fear of losing their jobs on top ... Before the point of murder, I'd actually have some sympathy for him!

Yet it's clear that more than 5 years ago he had credit card debts that his wife didn't know about and that came as a shock to her. Given the disparity in their incomes it's much more likely that he was able to get extensive credit than she was, notwithstanding their occupation.

 

[Legally Bland]

I've been searching to try and find if you can go bankrupt / have an IVA etc as a police officer. Most of the info is on forums, so may not be reliable, but it's pretty consistent that you are allowed. But they need to inform Professional Standards / Superior.

EG:

Can you go Bankrupt if you are a Police Officer?

As a police officer you may think you cannot go bankrupt. You may have heard that it could seriously damage your career or even lead to you losing your job.

This is incorrect. Most forces realise that personal debt problems can occur and when they do it is best to resolve the issue sensibly using the most suitable solution available.

Given this your force will normally be supportive of bankruptcy. As long as you make your plans known before you apply your current role will almost certainly be unaffected. It is also unlikely there will be any long term affects on your career.

https://bankruptcyexpert.co.uk/can-i-go-bankrupt/can-i-go-bankrupt-if-i-work-for-the-police

 

[Legally Bland]

DAY THREE - 10.45AM

Trial to resume shortly

We are back at Chester Crown Court this morning where the trial of Darren McKie is expected to resume.

Yesterday the trial heard how the couple’s finances had spiralled out of control.

Inspector Darren McKie and his wife Leanne spent almost £58,000 more than their joint income in the last seven months of her life, splashing out on an expensive family holiday to Portugal and home improvements, a court heard.

Darren McKie, 44, of Burford Close in Wilmslow, denies murdering Leanne, 39, a detective constable.

You can read what happened in court yesterday HERE

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-news/darren-mckie-murder-wife-trial-14368526

(I'm going to be out for a few hours if anyone wants to post updates)

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I've been searching to try and find if you can go bankrupt / have an IVA etc as a police officer. Most of the info is on forums, so may not be reliable, but it's pretty consistent that you are allowed. But they need to inform Professional Standards / Superior.

Thanks - that's very interesting. It seems there's much more discretion allowed than I had thought.

I wonder if there would be a difference in the police's approach depending on whether the officer ended up with debt problems due to genuine misfortune or specific circumstances as opposed to ending up in debt due to poor judgment over a long period of time. What we've been told about the debt accumulated by the McKies looks very much like the latter, especially since it was reported that their parents had previously paid off earlier debts and given the size of the unsecured debts. Living well above one's known means would ordinarily raise all sorts of red flags.