GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

[flutterby]

Hello all,

Just caught up, it's been a busy week. Definitely convinced of their guilt now

 

[flutterby]

Possibly can be in court next week on Wednesday and Friday. Any idea what the court schedule is looking like Tortoise? Many TIA

 

[Tortoise]

Possibly can be in court next week on Wednesday and Friday. Any idea what the court schedule is looking like Tortoise? Many TIA

Hi flutterby. Wednesday and Friday will be QC's closing speeches. Prosecution goes first, so I imagine you'll get that on Weds, BB's will be on Thurs and JG's on Fri. Assuming they need no more than a day each. I don't think JG's will even need a whole day, but I don't think the judge will start his summing up until the following week, so Friday might be a short day.

 

[Gigi-G]

Just a quick post. Internet is crashing here. I came across this earlier... so sad. It's all too similar all too horrid.

http://dailym.ai/1TRF3Ge

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[Gigi-G]

The facts of the case are indeed different so you can't extrapolate one case to another but the similarities are uncanny.
( The Ayeeshia Smith case is one of the worst in recent times, the poor child had not even been fed for a week prior to her murder and then the child benefit payment after her death was still claimed for 6 months.)
Also - in so far as the mitigation issues which might be argued re Mental Health for JG- the Smith mother's MH issues didn't count as mitigation for her, even in this case the mother is the perpetrator. Ditto the mother made repeated 999 calls reporting her boyfriend for DV threats both to herself & Ayeeshia & had a history of DV relationships & consequent low self esteem. ( TBH, no idea how they decided it was her the mum instead of the boyfriend who gave the fatal blow as both implicated each other. )

Anyway I wonder if the courts are taking these types of crimes more seriously? It's certainly motivating SServices at last as follows:

"Panicked child protection officers are referring one in every five children to social services for fear that they could be the next Baby P or Ayeeshia Smith.

Recent high-profile cases of toddler abuse have caused a 'climate of fear' to fester among those working with young children, leaving care agencies terrified another death will be reported on their watch".... Professor Bilson stressed that the increase in investigations did not lead to a rise in the number of children being significantly harmed.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sing-Ayeeshia-Smith-Baby-P.html#ixzz4AMezlib4
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

There have been a few cases recently. Far far too many. Ayeeshia was such a sad case. Involving 3 adults mom stepdad Rigby and birth dad Booth.
It was Booth that did try to keep the SS involved. But mom made his visiting times awkward.

Rigby got 3 years 6 months.
Mom 24 years.


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[Gigi-G]

There have been a few cases recently. Far far too many. Ayeeshia was such a sad case. Involving 3 adults mom stepdad Rigby and birth dad Booth.
It was Booth that did try to keep the SS involved. But mom made his visiting times awkward.

Rigby got 3 years 6 months.
Mom 24 years.


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IIRC the stepdad was charged with facilitating Ayeeshia's abuse/neglect.
As he didn't report it or her to the authorities. In other words turned a blind eye. Bit like JG.

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[Gigi-G]

You know.... since becoming involved in the Criminal field. Thru my studys. I am truly horrified at the amount of lil ones let alone older children, who are subjected to abuse. OMG it's like we're teleported back into the 1800's where child slavery was rife.... it's awful knowing the resources we have available today. How many fall short of the help they need.. it's frustrating.

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[flutterby]

Hi flutterby. Wednesday and Friday will be QC's closing speeches. Prosecution goes first, so I imagine you'll get that on Weds, BB's will be on Thurs and JG's on Fri. Assuming they need no more than a day each. I don't think JG's will even need a whole day, but I don't think the judge will start his summing up until the following week, so Friday might be a short day.

Thanks

 

[Gigi-G]

I'm assuming it's back in Court Today? Had a difficult weekend. Dog wasn't well so lack of sleep.

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[Legally Bland]

I can't see it listed for today, Gigi.

http://www.thelawpages.com/court-hearings-lists/Central-Criminal-Court.php

(Assuming I'm looking at the right thing)

 

[cottonweaver]

You know.... since becoming involved in the Criminal field. Thru my studys. I am truly horrified at the amount of lil ones let alone older children, who are subjected to abuse. OMG it's like we're teleported back into the 1800's where child slavery was rife.... it's awful knowing the resources we have available today. How many fall short of the help they need.. it's frustrating.

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I watched the Channel 4 Dispatches undercover investigation on Birmingham Social Services ( it's still available on 4od website) and you could see how Childrens' services staff there were not coping at all. Appalling management, one crisis after another, reliant on expensive agency staff who come and go, unstable work force with excessive work loads who have to rush assessments, very little support from managers via "supervisions". It also featured a recent child murder where the SS had placed a child under a Special Guardianship Order ( it's cheaper) and that Guardian ( a family member ) had killed the little girl.

Anyway, hello to all posters and looking forward to seeing this case successfully resolved this week.
Thanks again to Tortoise, and Flutterby, who are planning to go down to the Old B this week. And all posters for their insights.

Looking to forward to Judge Wilkie's summing up. Defence closing will be interesting too - I'm finding it hard to believe that they will actually name-check Peppa Pig again in that speech...but.......who knows. ( IDT it would hit the right note for the jury, in the final speech.)


Gigi I do hope your dog is Ok. Pets and infants - always a real worry, can't tell us what they need and so vulnerable.

Will check back later this evening and see if I can trawl for any news on this outrageous case. x

 

[Tortoise]

Today at court -

snipped



Dr Ophoven will be giving evidence by video on Tues 7th June, 3 hour slot, 3pm to 6pm. And judge said after that (Weds thru Fri) there would be closing speeches and he hoped to give his summing up around Monday 13th June. I expect that will take him a full day at least, there is a lot of medical evidence to go through. So, I expect Jury will retire on 14th or 15th.

Just bringing this forward as a reminder of court schedule

 

[Gigi-G]

I can't see it listed for today, Gigi.

http://www.thelawpages.com/court-hearings-lists/Central-Criminal-Court.php

(Assuming I'm looking at the right thing)

Thanks LB. I'm chomping at the bit so to speak. Eager for the summing up and closing speeches. Seeing if BB and JG Have any more skull duggery at hand. Ha!
Hope everyone had a good week. And are all bright eyed and bushy tailed lol

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[Gigi-G]

I watched the Channel 4 Dispatches undercover investigation on Birmingham Social Services ( it's still available on 4od website) and you could see how Childrens' services staff there were not coping at all. Appalling management, one crisis after another, reliant on expensive agency staff who come and go, unstable work force with excessive work loads who have to rush assessments, very little support from managers via "supervisions". It also featured a recent child murder where the SS had placed a child under a Special Guardianship Order ( it's cheaper) and that Guardian ( a family member ) had killed the little girl.

Anyway, hello to all posters and looking forward to seeing this case successfully resolved this week.
Thanks again to Tortoise, and Flutterby, who are planning to go down to the Old B this week. And all posters for their insights.

Looking to forward to Judge Wilkie's summing up. Defence closing will be interesting too - I'm finding it hard to believe that they will actually name-check Peppa Pig again in that speech...but.......who knows. ( IDT it would hit the right note for the jury, in the final speech.)


Gigi I do hope your dog is Ok. Pets and infants - always a real worry, can't tell us what they need and so vulnerable.

Will check back later this evening and see if I can trawl for any news on this outrageous case. x

Thanks for the heads up hun. I'll go check that out tomorrow when grumpy's at hospital having his mot. 😂
He's interested in Crime. But he says I have a morbid fascination. Err no. I just like how you gather tiny bits of evidence and it reads out like a movie script. As profiling. Your findings bind the criminal to the crime.
Anyways I will have a few hours of peace.

He's a bit down today. Well we both are. Apart from the dog mysteriously having a problem in jumping up. And not being himself.
A dear friend of ours in the USA was travelling home in a convoy of 4 vans. A 4x4 took the off ramp and hit our friends van head on. He's a paraplegic and was locked down in his wheelchair in the back. The 2 vehicles went up in a fiery explosion. Our friend Chris burnt to death in his van, his girlfriend who was driving, suffered critical injuries but has been operated on and alive. All due to a 63 y o woman driving up the I-20 the wrong way. It just doesn't make sense. Anyways that's why I've been a bit quiet. Hope ya'll are well.

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[Gigi-G]

Just bringing this forward as a reminder of court schedule

Thanks Tortoise

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[dalsglen]

Thanks for the heads up hun. I'll go check that out tomorrow when grumpy's at hospital having his mot. ��
He's interested in Crime. But he says I have a morbid fascination. Err no. I just like how you gather tiny bits of evidence and it reads out like a movie script. As profiling. Your findings bind the criminal to the crime.
Anyways I will have a few hours of peace.

He's a bit down today. Well we both are. Apart from the dog mysteriously having a problem in jumping up. And not being himself.
A dear friend of ours in the USA was travelling home in a convoy of 4 vans. A 4x4 took the off ramp and hit our friends van head on. He's a paraplegic and was locked down in his wheelchair in the back. The 2 vehicles went up in a fiery explosion. Our friend Chris burnt to death in his van, his girlfriend who was driving, suffered critical injuries but has been operated on and alive. All due to a 63 y o woman driving up the I-20 the wrong way. It just doesn't make sense. Anyways that's why I've been a bit quiet. Hope ya'll are well.

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Sorry to hear that Gigi, take care of yourself!

 

[Gigi-G]

Just a quick note. I don't know if any of you were following this when it broke on MSM. But the 2 teen girls are to stand trial.
It does beg to wonder. What on earth was going thru their minds at the time. And thank goodness they were caught in the nick of time.

Girls face trial accused of kidnapping toddler from Primark

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...ls-go-8128783#ICID=Android_TMNewsApp_AppShare

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[Gigi-G]

Sorry to hear that Gigi, take care of yourself!

Thank-you Dalsglen.

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[Gigi-G]

Just a quick note. I don't know if any of you were following this when it broke on MSM. But the 2 teen girls are to stand trial.
It does beg to wonder. What on earth was going thru their minds at the time. And thank goodness they were caught in the nick of time.

Girls face trial accused of kidnapping toddler from Primark

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...ls-go-8128783#ICID=Android_TMNewsApp_AppShare

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In Court today. The girls admit to kidnapping....

http://dailym.ai/22LAJJ7

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[Legally Bland]

[video=twitter;740212335944585216]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/740212335944585216[/video]

CourtNewsUK‏@CourtNewsUK
Six year-old girl allegedly battered to death by father could have sustained skull fractures 'when she fell from a low chair' says expert
5:02 pm - 7 Jun 2016

Tiny bit more here: http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/ellie-died-falling-low-chair/?fb_ref=2c2d0x_MtK-Twitter

Saying what the defendants wanted her to say.

I hope the cross-ex is good (I'm sure it will be).