GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

[neteditor]

I've googled a lot trying to find any mention of when YD was removed the second time. The time stamp on the video is 20 November when she definitely says she wants to talk to mummy and daddy. She has got to still be in their care at that stage. They weren't charged until Feb / March following and the Justice King family court hearing was the June after. I can't as yet find anything beyond those facts.

Could JG's lighter cruelty sentence be because her DV victimhood mitigates? I need to re-read the judgment again I think.

 

[michelle230]

"My guess is that she will have them running around in circles"
....."them" being the prison staff (hope they get well paid lol)

 

[neteditor]

"My guess is that she will have them running around in circles"
....."them" being the prison staff (hope they get well paid lol)

Fortunately prison staff will have seen her ilk and worse many times before, she'll have a hard time manipulating those toughies!

 

[michelle230]

Judge talked about the influence of BB and all that she had lost....
Still don`t think it was long enough!
Yes - I`m puzzled about when they made the video - that`s what I was referring to in a previous post about the "star" being removed. Didn`t know if I was allowed to mention YD!
BTW - did you read about the circumstances when YD was removed originally (before the death of Ellie)?

 

[neteditor]

Judge talked about the influence of BB and all that she had lost....
Still don`t think it was long enough!
Yes - I`m puzzled about when they made the video - that`s what I was referring to in a previous post about the "star" being removed. Didn`t know if I was allowed to mention YD!
BTW - did you read about the circumstances when YD was removed originally (before the death of Ellie)?

It's official police interview video so you can rely on the date stamp being accurate. That's why we're wondering who could have got access to it, evidence is not just passed around, its under lock and key!

I've read that JG was lifted for shoplifting and had YD with her, aged about 6 months, and that was the first anyone in officialdom knew she had another child. I also read that there was a "dodgy dna" test which showed YD was not BB's child. I haven't uncovered how they eventually DNA'd her as his? Anyone know?

 

[michelle230]

Don`t know re DNA but when they went round to JG`s house after stopping her on suspicion of shoplifting , they found YD in filthy clothes and guessed she was being neglected.

 

[Gigi-G]

Hi guys sorry for not being around much. Pain today is my enemy. To sleep thru is my friend.
Thanks for the info ya'll. It's cleared some fuzzy bits for me.
Umm re dna for YD the first was botched if i remember. It was another that was taken that successfully identified BB as father,
JG was actually caught with the YD after shoplifting. It was discovered there that YD was in dirty clothes unkempt and looking neglected.
There was a story circulating she was stopped on the mway. But i think it was posted few pages down now that she was shoplifting.

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[michelle230]

Don`t know if you have seen this. It`s called "Reflecting on Ben Butler`s Crime". It`s "This Morning" doing a follow up of the time when they interviewed BB/JG on their "couch", being completely taken in by him and full of outrage that he had had his daughter removed from the family. In it the grandfather says that he hates his daughter now.

http://www.itv.com/thismorning/hot-topics

 

[michelle230]

LBC radio caller - Butler`s neighbour talking about them (and to them) after the murder

http://www.lbc.co.uk/dad-guilty-of-murdering-6-year-old-daughter-132589

 

[flutterby]

Don`t know if you have seen this. It`s called "Reflecting on Ben Butler`s Crime". It`s "This Morning" doing a follow up of the time when they interviewed BB/JG on their "couch", being completely taken in by him and full of outrage that he had had his daughter removed from the family. In it the grandfather says that he hates his daughter now.

http://www.itv.com/thismorning/hot-topics

Thanks for sharing this x

 

[Gigi-G]

LBC radio caller - Butler`s neighbour talking about them (and to them) after the murder

http://www.lbc.co.uk/dad-guilty-of-murdering-6-year-old-daughter-132589

Ty for the links x

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[Gigi-G]

Anyone else despondant about the state of the UK as it pans out? Im like woah? Seriously didnt think Brexit would win. I know we worked as a country before EU. Or should I say 'common market' as thats what it all began with. An easier cheaper better route to buy and sell. Can we not have that bit back as it was only Brussels running/dictating rules and regulations that we had to agree to implement even to the detriment of some. Which was one of the biggest contentions. Ahhhh i will shh now cuz im a muppet and an unpaid muppet at that 😣

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[PrimeSuspect]

PrimeS - I`m also very fascinated by this area as I was brought up by a "mother" who was a malignant narcissist. The fall out from this has been truly horrendous. I finally realised in my early 40s and have been studying the subject for over 10 years. From my own personal experience I know that a human being`s ability to block out abuse - even as an intelligent adult never mind a child, is shockingly strong.
One question I ponder over - I`m always pondering over something lol - what is more evil? Those who are so evil that they don`t even know it (have awareness) or those who have an awareness of evil but continue to behave in the same manner? Answers on a postcard please!!

Michelle - my 'mother' has NPD! *hugs* fellow survivor. The constant mind games, the abuse, the rages, the delusions/secrets of the disordered which we must uphold or fear the consequences, the 'insanity' that only the family is privy to, OMG!

Ellie 'knew' her parents, particularly BB ( the 'hero' in his own movie, everyone is an object to be used, abused and discarded), not as loving, caring people but as 'evil', there's no peace, no harmony, chaos rules, the ever changing rules, even a frown or smile can send these 'nuts' into a rage, she couldn't win! It breaks my heart that no one listened to her. Ellie had a way out as a baby after enduring unspeakable violence, yet the courts let her down and returned her to the 'saintly' father, they fell for the narc's antics AGAIN!!! :cry: JMO

 

[Tortoise]

I haven't read this yet but the headline confirms what Michelle said she'd read the other day about BB -


"Child killer Ben Butler showed psychopathic tendencies as a child and ‘tortured his pet dog so badly its leg had to be amputated"


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ild-tortured-pet-dog-badly-leg-amputated.html

 

[Tortoise]

It seems it was originally reported here - http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683425/Ellie-murderer-Ben-Butler-tortured-pet-dog-badly-lost-leg

" Butler also mercilessly picked on his little brother, Tony, and was finally thrown out of home because his mother was so scared of him. "

More to read at link

 

[Tortoise]

BRUTAL Ben Butler tried to kill his unborn baby in a vicious attack on his pregnant ex-girlfriend years before he murdered his six-year-old daughter Ellie.
Hannah Hillman, 32, broke her silence on his savage assault on her and said: “I feel like he killed our baby.”

She said: “Ben is a psychopath. That absolute blackness in his eyes and the way he would foam at the mouth — it upsets me so much that Ellie will have died seeing that.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13423...-of-terrifying-abuse-at-hands-of-ellie-fiend/

 

[Tortoise]

She eventually escaped his clutches but he persuaded a friend to get her to meet him to discuss their child.
It was then Butler began savagely beating her, Miss Hillman says. It took her weeks to recover from the attack, while her aunt told Butler his ex-girlfriend had lost the baby.
In fact the child survived the assault.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...als-tried-kill-unborn-baby.html#ixzz4CgOwGSby

 

[Tortoise]

Justice Hogg knew about these assaults. She should have called this lady before her to hear her evidence - assault on an adult, carrying an unborn baby!!!!

 

[neteditor]

BRUTAL Ben Butler tried to kill his unborn baby in a vicious attack on his pregnant ex-girlfriend years before he murdered his six-year-old daughter Ellie.
Hannah Hillman, 32, broke her silence on his savage assault on her and said: “I feel like he killed our baby.”

She said: “Ben is a psychopath. That absolute blackness in his eyes and the way he would foam at the mouth — it upsets me so much that Ellie will have died seeing that.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13423...-of-terrifying-abuse-at-hands-of-ellie-fiend/

The ex journalist inside me crackled...

"His convictions for strangling her outside a club and that final assault were disclosed in court during his trial for murdering Ellie in 2013"

The jury did NOT hear about those convictions, the judge ruled her evidence inadmissible as reported here:

"But despite finding her evidence would be relevant to show Butler's propensity for domestic violence, the judge ruled it inadmissible".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eat-metal-pole-convicted-strangling-2005.html

 

[Tortoise]

The ex journalist inside me crackled...



The jury did NOT hear about those convictions, the judge ruled her evidence inadmissible as reported here:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eat-metal-pole-convicted-strangling-2005.html

Those convictions were reported to the jury and he was cross-examined on the circumstances of the assaults on her.