GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #2

[Gigi-G]

Uggh its that time again when ive to choose a new car 😓

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[Gigi-G]

Uggh its that time again when ive to choose a new car 😓

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If i was driving it. There wouldnt be a problem!! 😨

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[neteditor]

Hmm came across this during Google searches. The full opinion of the Australian psychologist is worth reading (but 10% rule etc):

http://www.kidspot.com.au/parenting...-her-murderous-partner-over-their-little-girl

Elisabeth says Gray has no sense of self and can probably only shape her identify through Butler’s bigger personality.

“If this man is a very narcissistic, grandiose – and for all we know - a very charismatic person in her life – her identity is attached to his identity.”

 

[neteditor]

Uggh its that time again when ive to choose a new car 

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Aww I can only dream about buying a car... and I badly need one I am in the country miles from anything

 

[flutterby]

Just saw this posted on the mummy website http://www.pinktape.co.uk/rants/what-price-transparency/

 

[cottonweaver]

I'm really looking for his previous offences prior to Ellie's birth. No luck so far I'll keep trying.

I spent ages net, found nothing, but good luck. That's why I thought he had done a "scrub". I tried specific date ranges, different variations of Ben , specific areas of known crimes - Kingston, Sutton etc. Nothing. As an ex journalist you'll have more tricks up your sleeve than me though .

 

[cottonweaver]

BIB

I have no idea what that means.

HH reaching out to BB? Or the media? Or maybe a threat from BB/JG to HH?

Just some irrelevant nonsense?

How strange LB. Why would she put her personal email in there but with no comment! It's posted the week of their media blitz, see previous page, I dated the This Morning prog etc IIRC.

 

[neteditor]

Just saw this posted on the mummy website http://www.pinktape.co.uk/rants/what-price-transparency/

Ow my brain hurts now... is it just me who found that difficult to digest? Maybe it's because I'm feeding my children at the same time or because my ADHD meds have worn off...

No matter, good find flutterby, thank you

 

[cottonweaver]

I dropped her a quick mail. I dont hold out much hope tho. Shes probably glad hes inside and that part of her life she can close the door on

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BIB You never cease to amaze me Gigi
So I found this for you - everyone else, sorry, ignore, totally OTopic, Gigi's favourite new Tweeter RSambora
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...aking-sun-St-Barts-getaway-father-Richie.html

 

[cottonweaver]

Just saw this posted on the mummy website http://www.pinktape.co.uk/rants/what-price-transparency/

Thankyou F

This is fab as I have been impatiently trying to find out why the Hogg judgements are not back up .

"But these two judgments were removed from BAILII where they were initially freely available in unanonymised form, to avoid prejudicing the criminal trial. Well, the criminal trial is over and the clamour to know how this could have happened is understandably great. But still the judgments have not been republished. And still the public are dependent on the perspective of the participants in the SCR and the grandfather, and the selective reporting of the press.

They will have had plenty of time to prepare a strategy, a response. Plenty of time to anonymise or redact judgments so that they could be republished and read and referred to, plenty of time to prepare a press statement or summary perhaps explaining the (sound) constitutional reasons for not participating in a serious case review, to nominate a point of contact to deal with enquiries.

Earlier this week I tweeted my frustration at the @judiciaryuk twitter account that the judgments had not gone back up. "

The author is as frustrated as us. What about poor Neal Gray - how is he ever to get his public enquiry if there is no transparency. Grrr

rest is in the article, too much to paste x

I've added a comment at the bottom of this lawyer's article.

 

[Gigi-G]

Aww I can only dream about buying a car... and I badly need one I am in the country miles from anything

Same here am in the Cotswolds area.. more cattle per hectare than ppl lol.
No.. i dont mean buy a car. Thru my disability i have a motobility car. Every 3 years (prior to it starting its mot's) disabled like myself on the highest rate of pip or dla. Can lease a car basically. I pay for it thru my benefit each month. But its up to you what cars and what specifications you want. My named driver is my O/H. Grumpy. As i take far too much meds now to drive. ):

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[Gigi-G]

BIB You never cease to amaze me Gigi
So I found this for you - everyone else, sorry, ignore, totally OTopic, Gigi's favourite new Tweeter RSambora
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...aking-sun-St-Barts-getaway-father-Richie.html

Oooooh. Ty thats his new gf standing next to him. His daughter is the one in pink (well jel) 😎

Havent heard from HH yet tho. I doubt i will.

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[Gigi-G]

Im still waiting for forensics to release their findings. As you only get snippets from Sentencing etc. They were pretty fast on releasing the other cases ive followed notes' out. Hmmmpf

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[cottonweaver]

Hmm came across this during Google searches. The full opinion of the Australian psychologist is worth reading (but 10% rule etc):

http://www.kidspot.com.au/parenting...-her-murderous-partner-over-their-little-girl

Thanks for this, from your link:
Clinical and counselling psychologist, and clinical director of Relationships Australia NSW, Elisabeth Shaw, said

Gray’s mental state could be an extreme example of a domestic violence victim.

“It’s reflective of a mental health condition of her own - something like a dependant personality disorder,” she tells Kidspot.

“But it’s also important to look at the effect of trauma and the possibility that sometimes [women like Gray] have been victims their whole lives - and have been living in regimes of power and control their whole lives.”

Elisabeth says Gray has no sense of self and can probably only shape her identify through Butler’s bigger personality.

“If this man is a very narcissistic, grandiose – and for all we know - a very charismatic person in her life – her identity is attached to his identity.”
And this, tragically, is where the children can come off second best.

“He’s the primary beacon and she’s the moth to the flame. The awful thing we see is that the children become by-products of the primary relationship, which is what she’s caught up in with him,” she says.

“The children are not really in view or central to anything. They may be something that she has delivered to consolidate her relationship with him.”

 

[Gigi-G]

Ow my brain hurts now... is it just me who found that difficult to digest? Maybe it's because I'm feeding my children at the same time or because my ADHD meds have worn off...

No matter, good find flutterby, thank you

Lol.. yr Brains just hurting?. Hun have mine... its blank half the time... then i just rock slowly n sing the wheels on the bus go round n round. 😂

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[cottonweaver]

Im still waiting for forensics to release their findings. As you only get snippets from Sentencing etc. They were pretty fast on releasing the other cases ive followed notes' out. Hmmmpf

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We're/the public are not going to get anything GIGI. The lawyer that Flutterby linked to has been trying hard just to get the old Hogg judgments and find out the true reasons for the restrictions , she works for the Transparency Project.
Yes the article is hard going but very interesting

http://www.pinktape.co.uk/rants/what-price-transparency/#comment-166961

 

[Gigi-G]

Thankyou F

This is fab as I have been impatiently trying to find out why the Hogg judgements are not back up .



The author is as frustrated as us. What about poor Neal Gray - how is he ever to get his public enquiry if there is no transparency. Grrr

rest is in the article, too much to paste x

I've added a comment at the bottom of this lawyer's article.

Has anyone been promoted to start a acc for Neal Gray yet?

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[Gigi-G]

Thanks for this, from your link:
Clinical and counselling psychologist, and clinical director of Relationships Australia NSW, Elisabeth Shaw, said

But yet if she has a MPD. Then how would that manifest itself?
Weve heard she secured a placement in a very prestigious school which most of us could just dream about.
She was offered some work via that route but did she not chase that ambition anymore? Maybe she assumed IT would be self perpeputating. She'd just have to wait for parts to fall at her feet.
We all know that doesnt happen. Even in celebdon.
Does it stem from childhood? If she got something she asked for she wanted she got it?
Was it her marriage at 17? Did that mould her into an MPD?
We already heard from S that her teenage years we very similar. With an attachment disorder. Even as far as to stalk. Is definitely not the norm for a mentally healthy person.
First marriage was abusive to? I think IIRC.

:crazy:

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[cottonweaver]

lawyer has collected a lot of professional responses to this case in this one

https://storify.com/sharonmartin/a-...ign=website&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email

The tweets link to various articles and there is a sourced timeline, so quite useful.

 

[cottonweaver]

Link to all the related judgements !

Lawyers professional website

https://www.facebook.com/ProBonoFamilyandChildLawParalegalServicesLtd/posts/1221161291230379

If you read the intro blurb, it explains why they are now allowed to cover this