'UK - Epsom college head Emma Pattinson, 45, found dead on campus along with husband George, 39, and daughter, Lettie, 7 - 6 Feb 2023

[steeltowngirl]

Tributes paid to Surrey headteacher found dead with husband and daughter

Colleagues describe Emma Pattison as ‘inspiring’, as reports say shots were heard before bodies found in grounds of Epsom College

www.theguardian.com

Leadership Likes: Emma Pattison - Croydon High School

“If you can give a chance to people who are bright enough to do what they wouldn’t be able to...

www.croydonhigh.gdst.net

 

[Cedars]

At some of the posh private schools such as this one, yes.

To practise for grouse shooting season, perhaps? (Having read innumerable novels/mysteries about this).

 

[Vaccine]

I don't think its normal - even in posh 'public' schools in the UK (which means bizarrely expensive private schools - go figure), for a rifle range to have live ammunition. Reports suggest no live ammunition was kept on site and that they rifle range was not the crime scene - the house was. I looked up the research on familicide and something like 91 percent of cases researched (admittedly in a US study) were carried out by men. It usually follows on from a history of domestic abuse or controlling behaviour. Speculation in the UK at the moment that this is the likely cause of death is causing a lot of anger - you guessed it - from men to women. But it is the most likely scenario. Given the police were called at 1.10am because of reports of gunshots its unlikely to be carbon monoxide....

Men Who Murder Their Families: What the Research Tells Us

Cases where people kill their families and then commit suicide are mercifully rare.

nij.ojp.gov

Why do men kill their families? Here’s what the research says

Research shows familicides are almost exclusively committed by men and key risk factors include a desire for control, particularly in areas associated with masculinity.

theconversation.com

I wondered whether the husband left his job or was made redundant - perhaps connected to their relocation to Epsom (and therefore as she said in her podcast interview -wasn't meant to happen) and was now becoming an independent consultant. He might have harboured resentment for this, their relocation and for his new 'consort' role. Or this could have just come on the back of a history of abuse. Truly awful.

Please forgive me if I've said anything presumptive or insensitive. We shall of course soon we enlightened by the official reporting of the cause of death.

 

[RickshawFan]

I doubt we’ll ever know the reasons. I don’t know the details in this case or what has happened, but I did recently do a bit of research around why a husband (which it almost always is) would kill their entire family as it’s something I find impossible to conceive of. There are a few reasons but it seems often the husband/father decides to end their life and feels that it’s “kinder” to take their family with them and save them the pain and grief their death will cause. In their minds it’s an act of love, not hate. I’m not speculating on what happened here, I’ve no idea, but perpetrators of the kind of murder/suicides people are talking about aren’t always monsters, just people who didn’t get the help they needed. But it’s a desperately sad situation, whatever the reason.

I guess my own sense of what is more frequent than that scenario is one where Partner A wants a divorce and Partner B thinks "if I can't have him/her, no one will." Then, the kids are collateral damage.
A divorce might easily destroy the career of someone who is a significant figure in a location where there are high standards for socially-approved behavior, especially among a certain set.
An affair in the rumor mill might have that effect, too.

 

[RickshawFan]

As I first looked at this case and jumped at the idea of "murder suicide", I realized I would be assuming that one person murdered two people. It's possible, if 3 are dead, that each adult killed one person and themselves. I also don't know that we have to jump to the conclusion that a gun was the only kind of weapon here.

I guess, as I drift ever further into foggy analysis, let's maybe dump all assumptions and likelihoods.

Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that it might take being in a certain "set" to guess at whys and wherefores in this case and come close to likely. Not my métier at all.

 

[infinit]

I don't think its normal - even in posh 'public' schools in the UK (which means bizarrely expensive private schools - go figure), for a rifle range to have live ammunition. Reports suggest no live ammunition was kept on site and that they rifle range was not the crime scene - the house was. I looked up the research on familicide and something like 91 percent of cases researched (admittedly in a US study) were carried out by men. It usually follows on from a history of domestic abuse or controlling behaviour. Speculation in the UK at the moment that this is the likely cause of death is causing a lot of anger - you guessed it - from men to women. But it is the most likely scenario. Given the police were called at 1.10am because of reports of gunshots its unlikely to be carbon monoxide....

Men Who Murder Their Families: What the Research Tells Us

Cases where people kill their families and then commit suicide are mercifully rare.

nij.ojp.gov

Why do men kill their families? Here’s what the research says

Research shows familicides are almost exclusively committed by men and key risk factors include a desire for control, particularly in areas associated with masculinity.

theconversation.com

I wondered whether the husband left his job or was made redundant - perhaps connected to their relocation to Epsom (and therefore as she said in her podcast interview -wasn't meant to happen) and was now becoming an independent consultant. He might have harboured resentment for this, their relocation and for his new 'consort' role. Or this could have just come on the back of a history of abuse. Truly awful.

Please forgive me if I've said anything presumptive or insensitive. We shall of course soon we enlightened by the official reporting of the cause of death.

Not sure on not having live ammo, this seems to suggest otherwise: Epsom College's 130-year-old rifle range where guests can shoot for £15 a session

 

[RickshawFan]

Not sure on not having live ammo, this seems to suggest otherwise: Epsom College's 130-year-old rifle range where guests can shoot for £15 a session

Epsom is "the country's top shooting school", per this article (which rapidly disappears behind a paywall).

 

[realanastasia]

Epsom is "the country's top shooting school", per this article (which rapidly disappears behind a paywall).

Your comment gave me a (bitter) laugh--so it looks like the UK has "shooting schools," but we in the US only have "school shootings."

 

[Cedars]

Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that it might take being in a certain "set" to guess at whys and wherefores in this case and come close to likely. Not my métier at all.

I wonder. I can't help but feel, surely the position and status of both Ms Pattison and of Epsom, can't have been completely irrelevant to whatever happened? I mean, even in mental illness, aren't people aware of their circumstances, of external perceptions and repercussions? This isn't 'just' a private family matter, in a private home.

MOO

 

[curiousbeaver]

My school had a rifle range - so it is not only posh public schools. I went to a cheap private school in the north of England (which is now closed). It was in a very poor area with low educational standards so all the local solicitors and doctors sent their kids to the school I attended.
It had one of the biggest CCFs in the country because it was compulsory from 3rd form to 5th form. But we had a rifle range where we used to shoot .22 with live ammunition for target practice. Guns & ammunition were strictly controlled. There were semi-automatic weapons too but these had magazines loaded with blanks and we used on exercises in mil bases etc.

 

[RickshawFan]

Your comment gave me a (bitter) laugh--so it looks like the UK has "shooting schools," but we in the US only have "school shootings."

Which brings me to ask, Does anyone know the particular culture of this particular school? I mean, in the UK, certain types of students go to certain public schools: Eton is not at all the same as Harrow, Marlborough is yet different, Winchester, too, Charterhouse, Rugby, Canterbury..... So what's the special niche for Epsom, except maybe for its shooting team? Or is the shooting team the key attraction?

 

[iamshadow21]

I know this whole situation is a horrible tragedy, but I have to admit I felt relief when I read that the perpetrator, whoever it was, didn't shoot the dog. I have read about family annihilators in the past who killed the pets, too. I'm glad Bella is safe. I just wish this whole family was, too.

 

[Caroclaud]

The shooting range was used by CCF, and students from other schools also used these facilities as part of their CCF activities, but are under tight security and do not carry live ammunition. A quick google shows there are a surprising number of rifle And shooting clubs In the local area, so the question is who had the gun licence and shooting hobby between Mr and Mrs P? MSM have now mentioned murder-suicide but we still don’t know exactly what happened.
They had some expensive cars in their drive (Bmw8), daughter in private school and had just sold their house so I’m assuming no money worries.
Can’t find any references to Mr P new job, seems like a sudden and unexpected move, so did something happen where he was forced to move away from his previous company Tanglewood? Something he was stressed about, ashamed about, which exposed him? They only moved a relatively short distance from their previous locality so I dont think would have triggered the necessity for a job move in itself.
Am wondering if doing background checks is a normal part of the vetting process for schools where staff and families live onsite?

 

[Bishop Black]

Head of Prestigious UK School Found Dead on Campus Alongside Husband, 7-Year-Old Daughter

Emma Pattinson, 45, had only been head of Epsom College for six months when she and her husband, George, and daughter, Lettie, 7, were found dead

people.com

British authorities are investigating the mysterious deaths of a private school head whose body was found alongside that of her husband and young daughter on campus grounds early Sunday.

Police were called to Epsom College in Surrey, just south of London, at 1:10 a.m., by the South East Coast Ambulance Service, where they found the bodies of Emma Pattinson, 45, her husband, George, 39, and her daughter, Lettie, 7, Surrey Police say in a statement obtained by PEOPLE.

Police launched an investigation to "establish the circumstances of their deaths," police say in the statement.

Authorities are "confident that this is an isolated incident with no third-party involvement," the statement says.

 

[RickshawFan]

The shooting range was used by CCF, and students from other schools also used these facilities as part of their CCF activities, but are under tight security and do not carry live ammunition. A quick google shows there are a surprising number of rifle And shooting clubs In the local area, so the question is who had the gun licence and shooting hobby between Mr and Mrs P? MSM have now mentioned murder-suicide but we still don’t know exactly what happened.
They had some expensive cars in their drive (Bmw8), daughter in private school and had just sold their house so I’m assuming no money worries.
Can’t find any references to Mr P new job, seems like a sudden and unexpected move, so did something happen where he was forced to move away from his previous company Tanglewood? Something he was stressed about, ashamed about, which exposed him? They only moved a relatively short distance from their previous locality so I dont think would have triggered the necessity for a job move in itself.
Am wondering if doing background checks is a normal part of the vetting process for schools where staff and families live onsite?

It's possible the daughter is in private school by reciprocal arrangement, since offspring may get free tuition as a parental perk. And I don't think we want to assume the shooter is male. It could be either spouse or both. Heck, if they had a gun lying around, a child could have got hold of it.

It did strike me that at 39, EP was very young to be Head Teacher of a prestigious school. In the scheme of things, she didn't have experience by graduating from one rank to another, which, I believe, would have taken longer. I'm surprised she wasn't 50-ish.

See here:
"Her teaching career began in 2002 at Lutterworth College, where she taught French and Spanish."

Who was Emma Pattison? Headteacher of top private school found dead

Emma Pattison, her husband and daughter were found dead on the school grounds

ca.sports.yahoo.com

Oh, okay, wait, she's 45 not him? Got it: he's 39. Silly me, I assumed he was the older one... That's still quite the zoom up the ranks.

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm narrowing the niche....

Epsom College seems to be what they call "sporty". It advertises Olympians on its staff, teams in 22+ sports and top-ish rugby status. And then there's the shooting range. There's more info here, but I have no idea what a "fixture" is.

Sport | Epsom College

National finals at the elite level, participation for all at every level. Sport is central to life at Epsom College.

www.epsomcollege.org.uk

Woah, the facilities. I sure was right about the "sporty" focus:

• 25m swimming pool
• 33 tennis courts
• 15 rugby and football pitches
• 9 netball courts
• 6 cricket squares
• 6 squash courts
• 2 sports halls
• 2 astroturfs (one Olympic-grade)
• 2 climbing walls
• 1 rifle range
• 1 golf driving range
• 1 fitness studio
• 1 dance studio
• 1 athletics track
• 1 confidence course

 

[RickshawFan]

For the good of the order, I'm posting a map from Google. If Epsom rings a bell, by the way, it's because there's a famous horsetrack there on the Downs. The royals go there for the Epsom horse races, so "Epsom" ends up in the splashy news, fantastic hats 'n' all.

Also, I'd bet Epsom salts, which help messed up feet and other body parts with a soothing soak, are a product of the same Downs, which are likely chalky.

Ha, ha.... I see a pub called The Grumpy Mole.

Direct train to London, with station right nearby.

 

[iamshadow21]

It's possible the daughter is in private school by reciprocal arrangement, since offspring may get free tuition as a parental perk. And I don't think we want to assume the shooter is male. It could be either spouse or both. Heck, if they had a gun lying around, a child could have got hold of it.

It did strike me that at 39, EP was very young to be Head Teacher of a prestigious school. In the scheme of things, she didn't have experience by graduating from one rank to another, which, I believe, would have taken longer. I'm surprised she wasn't 50-ish.

See here:
"Her teaching career began in 2002 at Lutterworth College, where she taught French and Spanish."

Who was Emma Pattison? Headteacher of top private school found dead

Emma Pattison, her husband and daughter were found dead on the school grounds

ca.sports.yahoo.com

Oh, okay, wait, she's 45 not him? Got it: he's 39. Silly me, I assumed he was the older one... That's still quite the zoom up the ranks.

I'm in Australia, not the UK, but I think it's not uncommon for certain teachers to pursue a leadership position early in their career. I know my mum's school had had the same (ineffective) principal for over a decade, and when she retired, they had a very young temp prinicipal for a year while they found and hired a new permanent principal. Mum though she was wonderful. She immediately implemented changes that were long overdue and spent money that the prior administration had been hoarding for goodness knows what reason and spent it on things like major structural work on school buildings that had been sorely needed for the whole of the last principal's tenure. She didn't end up being offered Mum's school's position, but only because the Department of Education was dragging their feet and she got another offer before they made up their minds which she immediately snapped up. The permanent new principal is also fairly young. I think - funnily enough - that I remember Mum telling me that HE'D been the temp principal at the school the temp principal they'd had ended up getting the job for! So they were able to meet up and dish all the important info for handover (and probably a lot of gossip) before they both began in their new permanent roles.

So yeah, a young principal isn't necessarily an odd - or bad - thing for a school, especially if it's a school that's been stuck in one person's way of doing things for a number of years.

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm in Australia, not the UK, but I think it's not uncommon for certain teachers to pursue a leadership position early in their career. I know my mum's school had had the same (ineffective) principal for over a decade, and when she retired, they had a very young temp prinicipal for a year while they found and hired a new permanent principal. Mum though she was wonderful. She immediately implemented changes that were long overdue and spent money that the prior administration had been hoarding for goodness knows what reason and spent it on things like major structural work on school buildings that had been sorely needed for the whole of the last principal's tenure. She didn't end up being offered Mum's school's position, but only because the Department of Education was dragging their feet and she got another offer before they made up their minds which she immediately snapped up. The permanent new principal is also fairly young. I think - funnily enough - that I remember Mum telling me that HE'D been the temp principal at the school the temp principal they'd had ended up getting the job for! So they were able to meet up and dish all the important info for handover (and probably a lot of gossip) before they both began in their new permanent roles.

So yeah, a young principal isn't necessarily an odd - or bad - thing for a school, especially if it's a school that's been stuck in one person's way of doing things for a number of years.

I suspect you’re right. Headteachers may be younger than they used to be. In my youth, my UK headmistresses were around 60, but I have noticed the same school currently has younger women in leadership positions.

On the other hand, I think maybe context matters in this case. EP must have been quite driven and ambitious. And Epsom must be a very driven school to have that many sports teams and facilities; that’s about winning. Since she’d been so long in leadership, she might have had trouble relating to teachers. She may have been uncomfortable with the type of student (and their parents) at Epsom, and maybe not realized it before she got there. They might have been entirely not her “set”: how would she do at a “sporty” college when her interests were French and music?

 

[annpats]

I mean, even in mental illness, aren't people aware of their circumstances, of external perceptions and repercussions?

Or these psychotic periods that trigger murder-suicide are so strong nothing else matters. Like tunnel vision.