UK - Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murder/attempted murder of a number of babies, 2018

[Marantz4250b]

So are you saying he should ask about his remand time only being counted as time spent ?

No, it was just a comment about how ridiculous the opinion that particular Facebook poster was. And that people with such ridiculous ideas are allowed to pass judgement on others if they get called for jury service.

 

[Bakers]

No, it was just a comment about how ridiculous the opinion that particular Facebook poster was. And that people with such ridiculous ideas are allowed to pass judgement on others if they get called for jury service.

Oh ok thank you for the reply x

 

[nothinonyou]

6 months is a long time, I can't think of any other murder trial of this length, can anyone else?
That will be a lot of information to follow but I'll certainly try my best when the time comes. The media interest in this will be huge also. She will be alongside the likes of Fred and Rose West and Myra Hindley and Ian Brady in terms of child serial killers if found guilty, not seen in a very long time!
My mind is still not made up on this so I guess I'll wait for what the trial has to say

 

[Kemug]

6 months is indeed a long time, I should think it will be very taxing on Lucy, her parents, and the families of all the babies. And even then, the jury may not even be able to reach a conclusion.

 

[Marantz4250b]

6 months is indeed a long time, I should think it will be very taxing on Lucy, her parents, and the families of all the babies. And even then, the jury may not even be able to reach a conclusion.

If she's innocent then I cannot imagine what she's going through. It must be absolutely horrific. The parents of those babies must be going through the mill as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the jury were unable to reach a decision, to be honest. If it's scheduled to last six months then that suggests that the evidence is no "slam-dunk" by any means.

This is such a terribly tragic case for everyone concerned. Whatever the eventual outcome no one involved will emerge undamaged from it to some degree.

 

[Sarahlou]

She has 8 murder charges and 10 attempted murder charges. Thinking about it I'm not really shocked it's going to take so long, there must be so much evidence to go through.

 

[Marantz4250b]

She has 8 murder charges and 10 attempted murder charges. Thinking about it I'm not really shocked it's going to take so long, there must be so much evidence to go through.

I agree but it doesn't give me the impression that there's the proverbial "smoking gun" here. It'll likely be extremely technical and probably highly circumstantial.

 

[JosieJo]

I've no idea how much of the evidence is circumstantial etc ...but id imagine the evidence varies in each case ...some of the cases may be much clearer than others but the timescale involved is likely down to having find verdicts for each individual one

 

[Marantz4250b]

Yes, very true.

 

[Jules2021]

Children's nurse Lucy Letby to go on trial next year accused of murdering eight babies | Daily Mail Online

A little bit more info regarding the trial and when we can expect a plea and why it's taking so long-you guys might have already seen it as was a few days ago, it's from the DM but hopefully it's reliable-they seem to have more info than other sources.

Mr Justice Dove noted that there were aspects of the prosecution case that had yet to be served on the defence.

Letby is therefore not expected to enter pleas until October 4 at the earliest, when the court reconvenes for a further case management hearing.

A provisional date for the trial had originally been set as January 11 next year, but that was abandoned because of the volume of work required by both sets of lawyers.

Letby's barrister, Ben Myers, QC, made no application for bail at today's hearing, which dealt with administrative and case management matters ahead of the trial.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Wow, I'd imagined that the delay might have been due to both sides discussing the nature and relevance of the evidence but to hear that some of it hasn't even been served on the defence yet is pretty staggering, to be honest. Does this suggest that they have tons of evidence which completely nails her or that they're chucking everything at her in the hope that something sticks? I just don't really know what to think at this point.

One of the considerations as regards being granted bail is the strength of the evidence so the fact that not all of it has been revealed to the defence explains why no application has been made, I would guess.

 

[Parker Knoll]

I suspect possibly a bit of both to be honest. I think they have applied for bail and been knocked back a couple of times so how circumstances have changed enough to warrant granting bail or even the defence applying for it is unlikely imho obviously! The trial date is so far away I would be amazed if they didn’t make an application again, maybe in October. How successful it will be who knows. Strange strange case.

 

[Marantz4250b]

From the way I read things I don't think it sounds like they've made an application for bail yet. It was never mentioned in any of the previous hearings (other than her QC saying he would do in due course) and I think it would be a hearing in it's own right.

I read a report on time spent on bail when I was looking into this and some lawyer quoted in it said that he always made sure the the defendant appeared in person so the judge had to actually refuse them in person rather than let them remain in clink. Or words to that effect. So I think they'd push very hard for her to appear in person. She has only appeared in person once, I think.

 

[Parker Knoll]

A bail application was made by her defence QC in November at her first appearance, it was held in chambers ( private not open court ) which was refused. There is no way they will grant her bail IMHO

 

[Kemug]

Mysteriouser and mysteriouser.

 

[Marantz4250b]

A bail application was made by her defence QC in November at her first appearance, it was held in chambers ( private not open court ) which was refused. There is no way they will grant her bail IMHO

Yes, I'd forgotten they'd made a bail application back then.

I agree that it's unlikely that she'll get bail. However they'll eventually run up against the remand time limit. I wonder whether they'll then throw another charge or arrest at her in order to keep her? Are they even allowed to do that?

 

[Oscardog]

My cousin is a covert narcissist. On the surface she's quiet, shy and unassuming, polite, conscientious and a nice person. A few years back she was caught out sending poison pen letters to neighbours. She had a deep dislike for happily married couples in the street. She was single and jealous and took her insecurity out on them in the most vile way. Now I'm not saying LL is a covert narcissist, but people aren't always what they appear to be on the surface. Maybe seeing young happy couples with newborns triggered something in her. MOO

 

[Marantz4250b]

Oscardog, that's really interesting. Were there any clues or suspicions about your cousin's personality amongst those who knew her, such as family and friends knowing or suspecting that she harbored these issues or did it all come to light due to the letters to the neighbors? If LL is guilty of this (and I'm still going with her not doing it) then it surely must go much deeper than being a narcissist. Murdering babies is a massive step up from harassing people out of jealousy.

 

[Oscardog]

Oscardog, that's really interesting. Were there any clues or suspicions about your cousin's personality amongst those who knew her, such as family and friends knowing or suspecting that she harbored these issues or did it all come to light due to the letters to the neighbors? If LL is guilty of this (and I'm still going with her not doing it) then it surely must go much deeper than being a narcissist. Murdering babies is a massive step up from harassing people out of jealousy.

In retrospect she has all of the signs. Shy, introvert, jealous, a vindictive streak. But she hid it so well that only the shyness was evident. My aunt was so upset that her daughter had done this she researched all sorts of personality disorders and decided this was the closest thing that she must have. Looking back there were instances where she displayed traits, not being able to keep friends, always being the wronged party, but she hid the negative parts of her personality so well. Many people tell me how lovely and kind they think she is and they haven't a clue about what she did. It's almost like she hates herself and puts on a mask to the outside world to trick people into thinking she's the opposite to what she is on the inside. I've never talked to her about it but my aunt has told my mother that they've had long chats where my cousin acknowledges what she is. I think she tries hard not to be that way but it must be a constant battle. I'm not saying LL is a narcissist but just that on the surface people can appear very different to what they actually are on the inside.

 

[Bakers]

Tbh if she is guilty it's pure genius along with pure evil.the hospital,the experts couldnt find a connection with the deaths so has she murder and atempted to murder all these babies with different methods??? It would be interesting to see the baby deaths that were investigated by the police later to be dropped