UK UK- Janet Brown, 51, research nurse, found nude, gagged, handcuffed & bludgeoned to death, @ home, Buckinghamshire,10 April '95, *DNA, new initiative*

[LadyL]

Amazingly, the killer remained in the house after the murder - even though the alarm was going off and it could have been linked to a police station.''

[bbm]

I'm not understanding how they know this.

 

[tes1984]

Just on the glass and entry, Paul Britton says that there was much more glass on the outside than inside, so it was probably broken from the inside.

My take is that the killer wanted investigators to think that he broke in, but he had actually effected entry another way e.g because he knew her or he had a key for some reason

The stuff with the glass is yet another baffling aspect of this case. At what point, in such a scenario, would the killer stage the scene? After he has Janet bound and helpless, or after the murder itself?

 

[Diddian]

Just on the glass and entry, Paul Britton says that there was much more glass on the outside than inside, so it was probably broken from the inside.

My take is that the killer wanted investigators to think that he broke in, but he had actually effected entry another way e.g because he knew her or he had a key for some reason

It was double-paned glass, so wouldn't it be likely that (depending on the force of the blows to break the glass), if a larger hole was made in the exterior glass than the interior pane and if the exterior pane was broken first and the interior separately second, then one would expect that more glass might fall to the outside?

 

[tes1984]

[bbm]

I'm not understanding how they know this.

The killer seems to have used the shower, presumably after the murder. He went into several rooms, leaving tiny traces of watered down blood on light switches, also presumably post murder.

IIRC a neighbour heard the alarm at 10pm, but it had stopped ringing at 10.15pm. I think the police theory may be that the killer finally switched off the alarm between 10 and 10.15pm. I may be misremembering things though.

 

[LadyL]

Just on the glass and entry, Paul Britton says that there was much more glass on the outside than inside, so it was probably broken from the inside.

My take is that the killer wanted investigators to think that he broke in, but he had actually effected entry another way e.g because he knew her or he had a key for some reason

yeah ... someone like a builder or even a teenage daughter's friend ...

 

[LadyL]

The killer seems to have used the shower, presumably after the murder. He went into several rooms, leaving tiny traces of watered down blood on light switches, also presumably post murder.

IIRC a neighbour heard the alarm at 10pm, but it had stopped ringing at 10.15pm. I think the police theory may be that the killer finally switched off the alarm between 10 and 10.15pm. I may be misremembering things though.

so maybe he thought Roxane was there (two cars) and presumed she was hiding
perhaps the handcuffs were to handcuff mother and daughter and torture them together

if the neighbour heard the alarm, did they contact police about it?

 

[Diddian]

Reports provided say that the daughter and her friend were originally going to have their sleepover at JB's home, but the friend was a new driver and the friend's mother did not want her driving so far until she had more experience, so the friend's mother wanted them to stay at her home instead.

Reports also say a friend of the daughter who was away for the night called at the Brown home at 8:10 and JB answered that call.

Is it publicly known whether that was a male or female friend of the daughter who called at 8:10? Also, if male, was he also a friend of the teen with whom the daughter stayed that night?

 

[Seni]

Fascinating thread!

How would the perp know where to turn off the alarm and how? Would he have needed a code?

 

[tes1984]

so maybe he thought Roxane was there (two cars) and presumed she was hiding
perhaps the handcuffs were to handcuff mother and daughter and torture them together

if the neighbour heard the alarm, did they contact police about it?

The killer does seem to conduct a basic search of the house, but he has blood on his hands, so it's post murder and a long time after he's accessed the property. Wouldn't he conduct the search much sooner in proceedings if he was looking for Roxane?

Regarding the neighbour... if the police had been contacted, then wouldn't they have found Janet that night?

 

[tes1984]

The police have said that in this case there is no one simple theory to explain everything. Nothing really makes sense.

I get strong BTK vibes. An organised, fantasy based offender, who is evidence savvy and plans everything, yet still manages to make major mistakes. IIRC Dennis Rader committed at least half a dozen home invasion murders and only considered one of them to have been a perfect crime. In all the others he made mistakes, failed to account for things and got lucky.

 

[Cedars]

It was double-paned glass, so wouldn't it be likely that (depending on the force of the blows to break the glass), if a larger hole was made in the exterior glass than the interior pane and if the exterior pane was broken first and the interior separately second, then one would expect that more glass might fall to the outside?

Not sure I can visual what you mean...but I wonder if a killer might, with adrenaline, run into a narrow opening, but then want a wider space to leave 'safely'...

 

[LadyL]

Starting @ approx. 8:30

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at about 14:40, it shows workmen arriving and the alarm is still going at 8:10 the next morning???

 

[LadyL]

The links upthread to YT should work - I'm in Canada too.

thank you
yes I was able to watch it

 

[Cedars]

at about 14:40, it shows workmen arriving and the alarm is still going at 8:10 the next morning???

My understanding may be wrong, but somewhere I recall reading the outside alarm would automatically stop after 20 mins, the inside panic alarm would continue until turned off.

So I don't know where any of the ideas about the killer 'turning off the alarm' come from.

Similarly, somewhere we apparently have a witness claimed to have heard the outdoor alarm around 10. The normal thing - I can testify being a neighbour to someone with an alarm - is you assume the neighbour has accidentally triggered it themselves. You certainly don't call police and waste everybodies time...In fact, police refuse to answer home alarms, it's almost always false. Just like car alarms.

JMO

 

[LadyL]

The killer does seem to conduct a basic search of the house, but he has blood on his hands, so it's post murder and a long time after he's accessed the property. Wouldn't he conduct the search much sooner in proceedings if he was looking for Roxane?

Regarding the neighbour... if the police had been contacted, then wouldn't they have found Janet that night?

hmm good points
I find it very odd that the neighbour would not contact police

 

[LadyL]

My understanding may be wrong, but somewhere I recall reading the outside alarm would automatically stop after 20 mins, the inside panic alarm would continue until turned off.

So I don't know where any of the ideas about the killer 'turning off the alarm' come from.

Similarly, somewhere we apparently have a witness claimed to have heard the outdoor alarm around 10. The normal thing - I can testify being a neighbour to someone with an alarm - is you assume the neighbour has accidentally triggered it themselves. You certainly don't call police and waste everybodies time...In fact, police refuse to answer home alarms, it's almost always false. Just like car alarms.

JMO

oh I would absolutely call the police if my neighbour's alarm did not shut off after a few minutes and they would respond here where I live

 

[Cedars]

oh I would absolutely call the police if my neighbour's alarm did not shut off after a few minutes and they would respond here where I live

Well, I guess my point is not everyone would, and evidently no one did. And to me, that's not an inexplicable part of the case.

As another example, the idea that if the phone rang, she absolutely 100% would have answered it if she'd been able, is just not true. If you want to go to bed early, many people won't keep getting up to answer the phone.

JMO

 

[trendsetter]

There appears to be a 'Beware of the Dog' warning sign at the top right of one of the front windows of the house:

It's a copy of Cave Canem Roman mosaic at the entrance to the 'House of the Tragic Poet' in Pompeii, (Beware of the dog - Wikipedia). I presume that the Browns didn't own a dog (as I don't recall mention of one) and was displayed simply to deter burglars.

 

[TWK]

On the alarm ringing, it could be just bystander syndrome, i.e everyone else waiting for someone else to do something, until it went off as per its programming after 20 minutes

Also the nearest neighbours were a few hundred yards away, so the noise was less likely to be unbearable…it’s not like it was a densely packed urban area, with people yards away with an unbearable racket

 

[TWK]

There appears to be a 'Beware of the Dog' warning sign at the top right of one of the front windows of the house:

View attachment 578937

It's a copy of Cave Canem Roman mosaic at the entrance to the 'House of the Tragic Poet' in Pompeii, (Beware of the dog - Wikipedia). I presume that the Browns didn't own a dog (as I don't recall mention of one) and was displayed simply to deter burglars.

The Browns had owned a huge Great Dane dog, but it had died by the time of the murder