GUILTY UK - Kayleigh Haywood, 15, Ibstock, Leicestershire, 13 Nov 2015 - #2

[CoverMeCagney]

Oh for goodness sake!!!! A witness SAW a naked from the waist down Kayleigh being pinned to the ground outside in the street outside the property and did absolutely fluffing nothing!!!! WTF! if that person had reacted then MAYBE Kayleigh would be alive today ... too many people seeing incident and doing nothing :/

Terrible, but this may be why:

"Jury hears the man who saw Beadman pinning half-naked Kayleigh to the ground thought she was wearing a short skirt and that he was a policeman"

It's a really tough one as your actions might depend on where you live / what is the norm. I have lived in a tiny rural village, and also in the middle of a city centre. I saw many disturbances in town but only once called the police (when I saw someone had a knife). However, had that or anything like it happened in the sleepy village I wouldn't have hesitated to call 999.

 

[RainbowSkies]

I am sure that person who witnessed that feels awful now. I think that would be unusual activity on that estate though and I would have called 101. It's not like there's any clubs near by or anything.

 

[mrazda71]

If I saw a man pinning a woman to the floor outside at 3am or even 3pm, I would be Eagle eyed, with phone in hand ready to call 999! No matter what area you live in, how rough or how scared you may be, you have to do the right thing ... a policeman pinning a girl to the floor?! And you just say 'Oh okay' and shut your curtains again? You don't carry on watching and and then think hang on a minute? Pretty sure a policeman wouldn't be caving in her poor face and skull with a brick!?!?

 

[CoverMeCagney]

True. I would have least stayed watching to monitor the situation, particularly in the absence of any police cars or the sound of walkie talkies. You're right, I wouldn't have just gone back to bed. But at the same we can't account for what that witness felt and assumed, or whether there had been previous disturbances locally. You never know, that person might come out of the woodwork and do a "I could have saved Kayleigh" interview for a tabloid. I bet they were horrified when they saw all the police activity in the following days, wonder if it was him who called the tip in early on.

 

[Alyce]

If I saw a man pinning a woman to the floor outside at 3am or even 3pm, I would be Eagle eyed, with phone in hand ready to call 999! No matter what area you live in, how rough or how scared you may be, you have to do the right thing ... a policeman pinning a girl to the floor?! And you just say 'Oh okay' and shut your curtains again? You don't carry on watching and and then think hang on a minute? Pretty sure a policeman wouldn't be caving in her poor face and skull with a brick!?!?

Precisely. That made me feel sick just reading it. How any person who claims the right to call themselves a human being can just watch that happen and not even make a phone call, shout from the window, do something, anything to help a young girl. Beyond belief.

 

[skibaboo]

I know if I'd have seen a man pinning a woman to the floor, and he was not in uniform, and was alone (police in my experience generally are in pairs at least when apprehending someone) I would have called 999. Being on WS changes you. But you really don't know what you may do, these things can be a shock. I know one time I saw a neighbour chase his daughters boyfriend out the house, with a samurai sword, it was real late and I was debating what to do when his wife came out, took it off him and gave him a good telling off. Thankfully nothing bad happened.

I bet the witness has really struggled with a lot of 'what if' guilt. But there is only one person, well 2 to blame here and that is SB and LH

 

[Tortoise]

daily mail report gives a little bit more

'Both defendants' accounts are self-serving - they are trying to paint themselves in the best light possible in the circumstances.'
Harlow's defence to the allegation of false imprisonment, Miss Moore said, is that he 'nodded off' and had no idea how Kayleigh came to leave his property.
Beadman, the court heard, claims to have no recollection of Kayleigh leaving the house but told police that he had killed the teenager, who died of head injuries, near a stream.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...aken-farmland-raped-killed.html#ixzz4B5jw36YS

 

[ms_x_to_the_m]

Oh wow. I'm speechless. How do 2 dudes get together and decide to molest this girl? How does that even come up?
Can I just say I'm glad Kayleigh fought back and was able to hit him.
I can't even imagine the terror she felt in those last moments.
RIP Kayleigh.

 

[Missoni]

The trial seemed such a long time coming, now it's here, I don't want to read the transcripts.

Whatever happened in that house, she clearly didn't want any part of it to run out half naked, she must have been so frightened. I hope the pair of them rot!

 

[skibaboo]

Usually the Facebook group "UK & Eire database for all crimes against children" follow these court cases in detail, but they don't have anything on their page.

They do now, they have a full summary from court. I'll grab the link

UK & Eire database for all crimes against children

 

[Lola68]

I know if I'd have seen a man pinning a woman to the floor, and he was not in uniform, and was alone (police in my experience generally are in pairs at least when apprehending someone) I would have called 999. Being on WS changes you. But you really don't know what you may do, these things can be a shock. I know one time I saw a neighbour chase his daughters boyfriend out the house, with a samurai sword, it was real late and I was debating what to do when his wife came out, took it off him and gave him a good telling off. Thankfully nothing bad happened.

I bet the witness has really struggled with a lot of 'what if' guilt. But there is only one person, well 2 to blame here and that is SB and LH

We don't actually know (or do we?) what the witness statement actually said, i.e. prosecution are saying he was "pinning her down" whereas the witness may have been unsure what they saw - an act of violence or just a couple getting a bit carried away. When the witness subsequently found out she'd been murdered, maybe they said they thought it was a policeman through guilt/fear that in hindsight they should have reported it. As many have suggested on here already, it's seems pretty unlikely that was what they actually thought at the time.

Either way, the witness is almost certainly feeling horrendous that things could have turned out differently had they reported it. But it wasn't their responsibility. I've considered reporting things in the past but felt it wasn't appropriate without full knowledge of what's going on - maybe it's a British thing and/or the bystander effect. I did once report a man who was trying to force a woman into the boot of a car - that to me was pretty clear cut

 

[mrazda71]

Personally, I'm an act now and risk being wrong person rather than ignore something and regret it later.

 

[skibaboo]

We don't actually know (or do we?) what the witness statement actually said, i.e. prosecution are saying he was "pinning her down" whereas the witness may have been unsure what they saw - an act of violence or just a couple getting a bit carried away. When the witness subsequently found out she'd been murdered, maybe they said they thought it was a policeman through guilt/fear that in hindsight they should have reported it. As many have suggested on here already, it's seems pretty unlikely that was what they actually thought at the time.

Either way, the witness is almost certainly feeling horrendous that things could have turned out differently had they reported it. But it wasn't their responsibility. I've considered reporting things in the past but felt it wasn't appropriate without full knowledge of what's going on - maybe it's a British thing and/or the bystander effect. I did once report a man who was trying to force a woman into the boot of a car - that to me was pretty clear cut

I read a bit of what was posted on the UK & Eire page. It describes what the witness saw. Paraphrasing "about 3 or 4 am the witness saw a man wrestle a female to the ground but thought he was a policeman making an arrest as he was wearing a jacket with a reflective stripe"

 

[CoverMeCagney]

They do now, they have a full summary from court. I'll grab the link

UK & Eire database for all crimes against children

Wow, a lot more detail there and a few interesting points about what the witness saw, you need to read the whole thing as it's mentioned a few times. . and I'm sorry, but having read all that, especially that he saw them get up and walk away, I don't think I would have called the police either. I'd have been very concerned if I heard banging and a female screaming from inside the house though.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I read a bit of what was posted on the UK & Eire page. It describes what the witness saw. Paraphrasing "about 3 or 4 am the witness saw a man wrestle a female to the ground but thought he was a policeman making an arrest as he was wearing a jacket with a reflective stripe"

And then "the witness thought Beadman was a police officer because of the jacket he was wearing which had a reflective stripe, and that the pair appeared to get up together and walk away having resolved their 'dispute'"

 

[mrazda71]

And then "the witness thought Beadman was a police officer because of the jacket he was wearing which had a reflective stripe, and that the pair appeared to get up together and walk away having resolved their 'dispute'"

The only way that this is in any way forgivable in my mind, is if the witness was VERY elderly... otherwise it's it's just unbelievable. No police car, no blue lights and sirens, no policeman's headgear, no police radio, no other Police officers, no handcuffs on the person 'resisting arrest'? I've been going over it all day and just no way would I have ignored that!

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The only way that this is in any way forgivable in my mind, is if the witness was VERY elderly... otherwise it's it's just unbelievable. No police car, no blue lights and sirens, no policeman's headgear, no police radio, no other Police officers, no handcuffs on the person 'resisting arrest'? I've been going over it all day and just no way would I have ignored that!

Yes he could well be elderly. I imagine he heard a noise which woke him, went over to the window a bit bleary eyed, saw a girl on the ground (not realising she was semi naked) and thought she was being arrested / helped by police, might even have thought it was a drunken domestic, and then watched them walk away. That whole thing could have been just a few seconds. Anyway, it's by the by, he didn't call 999 and it will haunt him forever more.

 

[Ellmau]

That poor girl.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

That poor girl.

Indeed, I don't think we realised any of this detail. I wonder what she was doing Friday night and all day Saturday, in the house drinking?

 

[Alyce]

Indeed, I don't think we realised any of this detail. I wonder what she was doing Friday night and all day Saturday, in the house drinking?

I remember reading something about Kayleigh having been seen out with sb and lh on the Saturday afternoon... It was MSM but only saw it once, then couldn't find it again, so may not have been accurate