GUILTY UK - Kevin Pettican for child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬, Ipswich, Suffolk, 2010

  • #21
The British justice system does not work like that and it's a shame that there is that generalisation. I accept that there are instances when it doesn't appear justice has been served, but those are the cases you hear about.

The British press are considered to be the most imaginative in the world with the way they put things across, so therefore stories are open to interpretation. And depending on your personal views will depend on how you interpret articles.

Mt Pettican may get a community order for his offences, or he may get the harshest sentence available. I guess it all depends on the circumstances surrounding the case.
Could it be that is was decided he downloaded too many images for his research?
I'm not saying this was even the case here but how does a child protection expert do their research?

How many people have inadvertently had something pop up on their computer screen they didn't wish to see? These items then remain on their hard-drive.
 
  • #22
The British justice system does not work like that and it's a shame that there is that generalisation. I accept that there are instances when it doesn't appear justice has been served, but those are the cases you hear about.

I'm sorry, but the British justice system works exactly like that. I have followed UK news for years and have seen the pitiful sentences handed down for serious crimes time after time. This guy will be given a 'community order' and then put in a safe house to protect him, while the neighbors are given no warning in order to protect their children. I know how the British system works. I'm sorry but it is a disgrace.
 
  • #23
Belinda, we will have to agree to disagree in this instance. I believe we need to have a total understanding of British law in order to understand the sentences fully. I am not an expert and am still learning.

In the UK it may be that members of the public aren't told when a sex offender, or anyone who has committed a crime moves into their area. But information has a way of being found out. Also, the Child Sex Offender Disclosure scheme is being rolled out nationally so if someone wants to know if a person who is in contact with their child poses a risk, they may be able to find that information from the Police.

We all want to protect our children and the vulnerable as best we can, but, do we actually know anyone who lives near us? Just because someone is on the register is only because they have been caught. And does the desire to want to know about sex offending history stretch to wanting to know whether you are at risk from being broken into by your neighbour etc?
If we want to know about criminal risks, do we then go on to find out whether people we associate with have illnesses which could harm us, for example does the family of a child your own child plays with have to tell you their child has HIV?
Would this lead to vigilantism?
Is that the right way to go about things?

I am not necessarily expressing my personal views but just asking people to think about some questions we should perhaps ask ourselves before making statements such as Mr Pettican, or others like him, are sick paedophiles who will walk away with no sentence and be protected for the rest of their lives.
 
  • #24
Case in point:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ghlight=bulger

This is how England handles their most serious criminals. They set them up with new identities. They fail to monitor them. When they get caught in a new crime, they get yet another slap on the wrist and possibly a whole new identity paid for by the government.
 
  • #25
The British justice system does not work like that and it's a shame that there is that generalisation. I accept that there are instances when it doesn't appear justice has been served, but those are the cases you hear about.

The British press are considered to be the most imaginative in the world with the way they put things across, so therefore stories are open to interpretation. And depending on your personal views will depend on how you interpret articles.

Mt Pettican may get a community order for his offences, or he may get the harshest sentence available. I guess it all depends on the circumstances surrounding the case.
Could it be that is was decided he downloaded too many images for his research?
I'm not saying this was even the case here but how does a child protection expert do their research?

How many people have inadvertently had something pop up on their computer screen they didn't wish to see? These items then remain on their hard-drive.

BBM. I quite agree. I've had 🤬🤬🤬🤬 pop up when I innocently click a site I thought was for something else. When one goes to delete it, three more pop up and so on. I am NOT a pedophile, never have been, never will be, BUT I'll bet there is some 🤬🤬🤬🤬 on my hard drive.
 
  • #26
That is an interesting point that I have never heard a conclusive answer to. Are pop-ups saved on your hard drive? My understanding is that LE can tell the difference by some means, but I am by no means sure of this. However, I don't for one moment believe this was a case of innocent pop-ups as the man has pleaded guilty. If such were the case, this man would fight to the end as this has ended his career. He is not innocent.
 
  • #27
Absolutely not saying he is innocent because if he felt he was he innocent I would hope he would fight tooth and nail to clear his name rather than lose everything.

It's just that things can be viewed from a different perspective and are open to different interpretations. From news articles not all aspects of a case are in the public domain and I think by looking at things from all angles you can make more of what you are reading and make a more informed judgement.

This case is fairly close to home but my personal opinion does not come into it when looking at all of the presented information and views of other people. So thanks for listening.
 
  • #28
I think, really, unless we can get some kind of deeper explanation of the charges, we are pretty much beating our heads against the wall guessing. We have different interpretations of what 'making' means. I wonder if it is possible to access British court records as can be done in some US states? I will research and see if I can find any definitive information as to the basis for the charges.
 
  • #29
Trident--May I make a suggestion. I have been researching the CRIME of child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 ever since my children were raped and photographed. They were told their pictures were for the computer and they disclosed those words to LE. Each was disabled and between the ages of 6-12. The FBI had us provide them with a school photo of each child, several candid full-body shots of each as well as photos of our yard, patio, and play structure.

I don't think it is a stretch to think that it is possible that my children's photos are out there somewhere, lost in the "sea" of vile photos. When our trial was over, with 12 convictions, I bought a computer and started searching. I never purposely attempted to open child 🤬🤬🤬🤬...EVER. However, in researching the subject, I started getting as many as 100 unsolicited emails per day which, when opened, exposed the most vile child abuse. The first time it happened, I actually threw a kitchen towel over my computer screen and called police. It was the first time I'd ever seen child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. Trust me, it is forever ingrained in my mind. The 🤬🤬🤬🤬 on my computer did depict Level 4 photos--clearly depicting the penetration of toddlers by adult men. I cleared the children out of the house. I remember feeling horribly sick.

I remember three detectives and the chief of police standing in my home office and commenting that they'd never seen such "graphic 🤬🤬🤬🤬". One detective directed me to forward it all the the local PD. Later, I was told to start forwarding everything that came in to an agent at the Portland FBI office. This went on for about 5 years. I've had my computer repaired a number of times and never had a problem. If I did, I have proof that I was vigilant about forwarding everything.

Recently, while researching something on the William Ayres thread, I came upon some child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 simply by clicking a button that said "free vintage knitting pattern". I'm a knitter and was confused as to why this button would show up on a adult services site. Could it be because I spend hours each day reading about knitting and purchase yarn and patterns on the internet? Or was it just a fluke? Well, the free pattern didn't exist but some nasty 🤬🤬🤬🤬 involving young children suddenly popped up. While I had it open, I picked up the phone and called a detective who immediately directed me to the local High Tech Crimes Unit. I forwarded him the links and all the emails I've received since, involving fishy sounding titles like these--"free knitting patterns for kiddies" or "Opa's favorite patterns for babies". They all have addresses which I've never seen before. I don't open them but even if I did, I feel comfortable that LE knows what I'm doing.

Don't ever be afraid to call LE and let them know you've stumbled onto something. As the agent told me, time is of the essence as most sites open and close quickly as they are merely portals. Who knows what quick action might do. It might save one child from abuse.

And Belinda, I do agree with you concerning the apparent laxity of UK sentencing. We might not have the full picture but I've been appalled at the "safe houses" and the changed identities to protect the convicted. This crime is of global proportions and it seems that the wealthiest and most powerful men are, time and again, being caught. It shocks me to my toes when judges release those who are awaiting sentences or even awaiting appeal (such as in Portugal). We know that pedophiles do not suddenly develop a "curiosity" in middle age or naively download child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 while doing research. Many of the men, like Mr. Pettican, are extremely intelligent and well-traveled. They know exactly what they are doing. They just got caught. Now it's time for the people of the UK to call for an appropriate sentence.

JohnnyCashFan--Please accept the fact that I take the crime of child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 very seriously and extremely personally. The crime of child sexual abuse has forever changed the course of my life....and that of my children's lives.
 
  • #30
Missizzy - I really loved your story about your reaction the first time child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 popped up on your computer. I am so glad that has never happened to me as I would probably freak out as well. I've never seen child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬, but know it would do ugly things to my soul and pray that I never do. That also was good information on what to do if it ever did happen. It is so hard to even read descriptions of the pictures.

I really feel sorry for the people who have to investigate these pictures for their jobs. They must have so many nightmares, especially if they have children. I am so thankful there are those out there who are willing to do the dirty work to protect our children.

I don't care for the placid excuses made to lessen the culpability of these criminals. In this particular case, irregardless of the definition of 'making', this man is vile and should do far more jail time than he will ever receive. We have to keep working to increase the penalty for these types of crimes against children and other vulnerable people.
 
  • #31
But do you honestly believe jail time does anything to protect our children? Short of giving every person who commits one of these crimes life without parole how does that help them to kerb their behaviour.
That is never going to happen because there will always be crimes that are seen as more serious in the eyes of the law makers, which don't receive life without parole sentences.
It surely must come down to rehabilitation, close monitoring etc. I know in the Uk there are units for sex offenders where they live and are monitored by staff. Maybe they should be compulsary.
To call for severe jail time doesn't, to me, solve anything other than taking people off the streets who may learn more criminal behaviour in prisons, for a period of time. That will increase their chances of re-offending and I know it is documented that the crimes increase in severity.
 
  • #32
It helps because every day they are locked up is a day they are not out exploiting and hurting children. There is no rehabilitation that is effective in dealing with child predators They will continue to offend as long as they are not incarcerated. I will take every bit of jail time we can get them. If they could be rehabilitated that would be another matter, but they can't and it's been proven conclusively that they can't. So, yeah, lock their butts up.
 
  • #33
I know in the Uk there are units for sex offenders where they live and are monitored by staff.

This, I think is actually a very good idea. If it was a properly funded and instituted program. The problem is the US justice system is so far not open to this idea. We now have some civil commitments that are done at the end of the jail term, but there is no solid program of an ongoing nature, which I think could go a long way to helping the situation and lower recidivism. I don't think they can be rehabilitated, but a program that means they have somewhere to live and work, while being closely monitored, would be ideal. IMO
 
  • #34
I don't know if it's the same in America but in the UK for someone to be in jail having 3 meals a day, clothing, warmth etc costs a lot. I can't see why if it's proven people can't be rehabilitated or manage their feelings in another way why they can't all live together and work together and do something for society as a whole.
That doesn't make up for their crimes but their lack of freedom would be like they are incarcerated but without costing the taxpayer anything.
 
  • #35
I don't know if it's the same in America but in the UK for someone to be in jail having 3 meals a day, clothing, warmth etc costs a lot. I can't see why if it's proven people can't be rehabilitated or manage their feelings in another way why they can't all live together and work together and do something for society as a whole.
That doesn't make up for their crimes but their lack of freedom would be like they are incarcerated but without costing the taxpayer anything.

Completely agree. Unfortunately, at this time the only options we are presented with is jail or society with or without probation and monitoring. I think the above would be a much more cost effective and safer way to deal with this issue. The justice system needs to start looking at this issue more closely and making some better choices for the continued observation of child predators. Parole monitoring is not being performed adequately on these offenders as they are spread so thin already. It would be virtually impossible for parole officers to maintain the level of monitoring that needs to happen with these cases.

I also agree that prison is not the best way to deal with these offenders, but if only given a choice between prison or society, I am going to choose prison. I don't believe civil commitments are the way to go either. It is just prolonged prison in a hospital setting. Again, not cost effective and not helpful, other than keeping them out of society.
 
  • #36
Just on a technical note, re: downloading, possession, making, etc...If one views an image on a website or e-mail, that is downloading regardless of whether the image is then saved onto a device (hard drive, thumb drive, CD). When it's viewed it's downloaded into a "temp files" folder or variation.

As those of us who've inadvertently done so and then been infected with popup after popup know, one can usually close the browser and/delete the files from that temp file, but there's no way to delete the fact that it's been downloaded (viewed). IP address to IP address. Spammers know this and LE uses forensic software that can determine that too. I once went to download a piece of river clip art for work, and a 🤬🤬🤬🤬 site virus shut my whole system down unless I clicked into the site (I did not - I took it to my IT department to fix, mortified!).

All of this is just to say "making" equalling "downloading" under UK law could mean only viewing the images. So yes, that could mean Pettican inadvertently viewed them in his research and even deleted them...but I can't buy that when given the rest of the few facts available.

And if that was the case, as a "child protection expert" why didn't Pettican report the images he "accidentally" viewed to law enforcement (as he'd be required by law to do in the US, and I would hope the UK too)? Or at the very least notify LE that he was about to view something like this, so that they'd be aware of it and NOT go after him as an offender?
 
  • #37
Thank you reen. After reading the British law sites that I linked to, it became pretty clear to me that downloading could equal "making". You are exactly right, though, these images can appear inadvertently. However, ITA with your comments about the most logical actions for a highly intelligent man. If he was doing research or inadvertently opened something, LE is only a call away. As an expert in these matters, he would have known the repercussions.

I have no doubt that there are many experts dealing with and studying child 🤬🤬🤬🤬 every single day. It must be a growing field for forensics experts, LE, and the medical community. Every one of those professionals, though, would know the protocol to keep them selves safe. My guess is that there's some form of logging required or daily oversight by a supervisor.

We have very few facts about Pettican. I'm hopeful that he never physically harmed a child but being that he pleaded guilty to possessing this 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 and lost his position as a lecturer tells me that he didn't feel that he could viably fight these charges.
 
  • #38
As far as his position at the University he was suspended and he straight away resigned. It is now being reported he retired. Mt Pettican, for whatever reason made the choices he did and he obviously felt that he couldn't defend his actions. However, I do still hope that the images he viewed were in line with his work as he is a knowledgeable man with a wealth of experience and through his career has protected many children....possibly I am wanting to believe this story isn't as it seems! He is due to be sentenced during the week beginning 27th September 2010.
 
  • #39
JohnnyCashFan--I totally relate to every word you are saying. We NEVER want to believe that someone we know or respect could do something vile. Child sexual abuse hurts so many other parties than the child. Of course, the child's suffering is the greatest. However, the friends and family of both the victim and the accused are forever affected.

I really wish this case was inadvertent or a huge mistake but I'm just not getting that feeling from everything I've read. If you'll look over some of our threads of professionals--clergy, teachers, doctors, coaches, psychiatrists--you'll see that many many people were literally gob-smacked when they were arrested. There's typically a handful that suspected or knew something but the rest are shocked. There's much yelling about how wonderful and respectful and caring the person was, until they plead guilty or are found guilty by a judge and jury. Then there's almost always silence from the earlier supporters. We have to remember that pedophiles spend every second of their life conniving ways to get what they want and to keep it secret. They are masters of deception.

What a waste of a career.
 
  • #40
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ion-expert-jailed-for-child-🤬🤬🤬🤬-2093172.html

He got 3 months apparently but there aren't any other details yet.
 

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