Found Deceased UK - Leah Croucher - Emerson Valley - Milton Keynes - #7

[Kinners_D]

Does anybody know how long npr camera footage is stored? If they could trace a vehicle belonging to NB, it would be insightful to see his coming and goings during the period before and after Leahs disappearance.

For all we know the police could have cctv footage of him buying something found at the scene. Like yhe Becky Watts murder.

According to this link, retention is 12 months unless its been requested as part of an investigation. The police may have requested anpr in the area as part of the investigation and may still have it though.

How DVSA uses automatic number plate recognition (ANPR)

www.gov.uk

 

[jackal67]

See my response above about containment and ventilation in loft spaces.

How do we know she wasn't moved there... we don't, but surely you have to admit it's unlikely?

Why is it unlikely. Perfectly possible she was killed and stored elsewhere . Plenty of people could know the house was empty ,and had access to it. I am just not convinced until more evidence or information is shared by police.

 

[Kinners_D]

Why is it unlikely. Perfectly possible she was killed and stored elsewhere . Plenty of people could know the house was empty ,and had access to it. I am just not convinced until more evidence or information is shared by police.

Ok, you're welcome to your opinion. I have mine. I think I've been pretty clear in other posts why I think this is unlikely.

 

[Miss_French]

Well keeping open minded, just suppose someone else had murdered LC or put her body and belongings there. Their DNA/fingerprints would be on the evidence. So hypothetically thinking if I was the murderer heard the family would be coming back soon, I'd need to have an excuse to put my DNA or fingerprints there - and how would I do that? I would suddenly have an excuse to find the body and have a fantastic scapegoat (or helper) in NM. Just my opinion. My own opinion. I like to have an open mind to all angles. JMO MOO edit: deleted two words

But that would require NM's DNA or fingerprints to be on Leah, and how would that happen to make him the scapegoat?

 

[Jenesaisquoi]

If the post-mortem is able to indicate that Leah was not sexually assaulted before being murdered, would that make a difference to assumption of NM’s guilt?

 

[Kinners_D]

If the post-mortem is able to indicate that Leah was not sexually assaulted before being murdered, would that make a difference to assumption of NM’s guilt?

Not really, the intent to sexually assault could still be there but wasn't realised because of any number of reasons leading to Leah's death. JMO

 

[jackal67]

You're suggesting everyone who has been in the property between Feb 2019 and Monday just gone should be under suspicion?

The police have named NM as their prime and sole suspect. In police speak this means all other possibilities have been ruled out.

yes I am because if NM hadnt been named this is exactly what would have happened. Police named him very quickly in fact so I don't believe they had time to get forensic results back speak to others before the announcement naming him. This is where my problem lies ...ruling out all other possibilities in just a couple of days.

 

[jackal67]

As I said before, we have no idea what they were going into the loft for, it could be entirely unrelated to the body, they go into the loft and see something that noone else has been in a position to see?

Possibly but I thought it was said the ceiling was involved. Could be leakage and staining through the ceiling or cracks due to weight above in the loft

 

[Kinners_D]

yes I am because if NM hadnt been named this is exactly what would have happened. Police named him very quickly in fact so I don't believe they had time to get forensic results back speak to others before the announcement naming him. This is where my problem lies ...ruling out all other possibilities in just a couple of days.

They had from Monday evening to Friday afternoon. With the number of forensic people on site and the ability to expedite forensic results if needed they had plenty of time to test and associate him with the crime.

It does seem fast but they had access to the owners, management agents, neighbours and estate agents. All that plus any forensic evidence they found at the scene.

In my mind it's obvious they have enough to make such a strong statement.

I also come back to the "no danger to the public" comments on Monday or Tuesday, perhaps there was something very clear pointing to him which made this statement possible... again that is speculation but seems like a reasonable one to me at least.

 

[Kinners_D]

Possibly but I thought it was said the ceiling was involved. Could be leakage and staining through the ceiling or cracks due to weight above in the loft

This is why I suggested a leak, it could be totally unrelated. To me for them to call someone first to gain access to the loft suggests there was nothing obviously related to the crime from below, otherwise you'd expect the police to be the first call. The call to police is made after the man with ladder arrives suggesting whatever was found was confined to the loft.

 

[jackal67]

Being questioned about what they know isn't grounds to take DNA or fingerprints. If Leah's belongings weren't touched the police don't even need to do the latter for elimination as they'll have NM's.

But NM may not have acted alone. He could have had someone help him to put body in loft. That's assuming he is responsible of course

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN WARNING:

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Sillybilly
WS Administrator

 

[jackal67]

They had from Monday evening to Friday afternoon. With the number of forensic people on site and the ability to expedite forensic results if needed they had plenty of time to test and associate him with the crime.

It does seem fast but they had access to the owners, management agents, neighbours and estate agents. All that plus any forensic evidence they found at the scene.

In my mind it's obvious they have enough to make such a strong statement.

I also come back to the "no danger to the public" comments on Monday or Tuesday, perhaps there was something very clear pointing to him which made this statement possible... again that is speculation but seems like a reasonable one to me at least.

Well you seem very sure and in the know about these things so I hope you are right

 

[pedronz06]

Totally get what you’re saying I’ve just worked in places where they’d send out a search party if you don’t show up within half hour of start time. We have a WhatsApp to let the team know even if we will be 5 minutes late due to trains etc so hence I found this scenario unusual

I've worked in places where they haven't even called up for a week to see if I want to come back to work. You're in a whatsapp work group now but were you in one back in 2019 or earlier?

 

[Kinners_D]

But NM may not have acted alone. He could have had someone help him to put body in loft. That's assuming he is responsible of course

This is absolutely correct but there would need to be more to it then them just having access to the property. There are rules about when the police are able to compel a suspect to provide a dna/fingerprint sample. I'm not sure that simply having access to the property in the years after Leah went missing is enough to meet the criteria to make someone a suspect (I've been wrong before though).

 

[Kinners_D]

Well you seem very sure and in the know about these things so I hope you are right

I hope so too.

I know some things but as with everyone else not directly investigating the crime I am giving my opinion from what is available.

This week has been a rollercoaster and I am more inclined to give the police the benefit of the doubt with what they are saying until the full facts (or as many facts as possible) are known.

 

[jackal67]

This is absolutely correct but there would need to be more to it then them just having access to the property. There are rules about when the police are able to compel a suspect to provide a dna/fingerprint sample. I'm not sure that simply having access to the property in the years after Leah went missing is enough to meet the criteria to make someone a suspect (I've been wrong before though).

I don't mean everyone who has access should become an 'official' suspect, but interviewed / statement taken etc.

 

[Kinners_D]

I don't mean everyone who has access should become an 'official' suspect, but interviewed / statement taken etc.

On that front we totally agree, being interviewed and questioned doesn't mean they can compel dna/fingerprints which is what I thought you were suggesting before, I may have misunderstood though.

 

[miss-scarlett23]

There's no so charge as 'accidental murder' in the UK.

"Involuntary Manslaughter​

Where an unlawful killing is done without an intention to kill or to cause grievous bodily harm, the suspect is to be charged with manslaughter not murder. Apart from the absence of the requisite intent, all other elements of the offence are the same as for murder."

Homicide: Murder and Manslaughter | The Crown Prosecution Service

 

[jackal67]

On that front we totally agree, being interviewed and questioned doesn't mean they can compel dna/fingerprints which is what I thought you were suggesting before, I may have misunderstood though.

I didn't suggest fingerprints or DNA maybe someone else did.