Surprised I’ve only heard them say self defence in the media. Surely not? As you say more likely diminished responsibility as a defence. I think unfortunately it’s likely to be a murder verdict but manslaughter.
GUILTY UK - Lee Pomeroy, 51, stabbed to death on train, Surrey, 4 January 2019
- Thread starter Ellmau
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It could be that the claims of mental illness are not true, or that he was given the option of pleading guilty to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility and decided he would rather try and get away with it completely by claiming self-defence.
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I'm baffled too, surely he can't expect to claim self defence and walk free? It's not like he just threw a punch. I'm wondering if we are missing a crucial bit of footage, that last second. Seemed just a verbal altercation from what we've seen, in which case there would be absolutely no defence for 18 stab wounds.
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Havent seen any reporting today but trial is definitely on
Central Criminal Court 5 T20197047
T20190037
chelsea phyliss mitchell
darren pencille
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 12:34
Central Criminal Court 5 T20197047
T20190037
chelsea phyliss mitchell
darren pencille
Details: Trial (Part Heard) - Resume - 12:34
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Ashish JoshiVerified account @ashishskynews 57m57 minutes ago
DCI Blackburn continues to give evidence. Jury is shown a number of very short video clips showing injuries and cuts to Darren Pencille’s left hand and arm near his elbow. Two voices can be heard, the defendant’s and his girlfriend Chelsea Mitchell’s.
DCI Blackburn continues to give evidence. Jury is shown a number of very short video clips showing injuries and cuts to Darren Pencille’s left hand and arm near his elbow. Two voices can be heard, the defendant’s and his girlfriend Chelsea Mitchell’s.
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Where have those video clips come from, I wonder?
Must be the train cctv?
His girlfriend wasn't on the train, and I don't think the train cameras had audio either. It's a shame the reporter wasn't bothered to clarify where they were taken.
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Sorry to bring forward my own post, but wanted to keep these videos provided by transit LE, handy.
Elainera
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Re. claiming self defence rather than mental illness, maybe they are planning to connect the two by arguing that because of his paranoid schizophrenia he perceived Lee's behaviour and words as a threat and believed to be in danger, hence defended himself.
Elainera
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I would assume they were found on either his or his gf's phone? Possible he already had "self defence" in mind and inflicted the "injuries and cuts" himself. jmo The cctv from the train will show whether Lee did anything to DP's arm.
See the case of Tony Martin, a farmer who shot dead a burglar who was running away. He claimed self-defence and was found guilty of murder at his trial. At his appeal he provided evidence of various mental disorders including paranoid personality disorder, and his conviction was reduced to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. It seems from what I'm reading that one or the other defence can be used.
Tony Martin (farmer) - Wikipedia
Self-Defence: More Complicated Than It Seems? | Keep Calm Talk Law
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Conversely, could one argue that a possible "glitch" in LP's thought processes were such that HE did not recognize the inherent danger of confronting the accused?
speculation, imo.
Lee's son did say this
So I guess that's why he could be saying self denfence. Who threw the first punch?
I don't think any self defence claim will work with so many stab wounds. Self defence is stabbing someone once and then fleeing the situation.
I've just read that the most common thing for a minor carrying a knife is a caution! Maybe if they started clamping down on them like a tonne of bricks at a earlier age then we wouldn't end up with this situation where for a large number of people, carrying a knife is a norm. We'll see more stabbings like this and the others in the news until the government do something.
I've just read that the most common thing for a minor carrying a knife is a caution! Maybe if they started clamping down on them like a tonne of bricks at a earlier age then we wouldn't end up with this situation where for a large number of people, carrying a knife is a norm. We'll see more stabbings like this and the others in the news until the government do something.
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From yesterday
Pencille's barrister Justin Rouse QC told the court: "We do not propose to call any evidence."
The judge, Mrs Justice Cheema-Grubb, asked: "Have you advised Mr Pencille that the time has now come when the defence can call evidence, have you advised him that if he wishes to, he can give evidence in court, and have you advised him that if he chooses not to give evidence it would be permissible for the jury to draw such inferences as may be proper?"
Mr Rouse confirmed he had.
Earlier, prosecutor Jacob Hallam QC detailed Pencille's two previous convictions to jurors.
( see link for details )
Man who 'murdered dad on Surrey train' previously knifed man in cigarette row
Pencille's barrister Justin Rouse QC told the court: "We do not propose to call any evidence."
The judge, Mrs Justice Cheema-Grubb, asked: "Have you advised Mr Pencille that the time has now come when the defence can call evidence, have you advised him that if he wishes to, he can give evidence in court, and have you advised him that if he chooses not to give evidence it would be permissible for the jury to draw such inferences as may be proper?"
Mr Rouse confirmed he had.
Earlier, prosecutor Jacob Hallam QC detailed Pencille's two previous convictions to jurors.
( see link for details )
Man who 'murdered dad on Surrey train' previously knifed man in cigarette row
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Ms Mitchell said she did not suspect anything serious has happened after Mr Pencille asked her to pick him up from the train station.
"It was quite normal for him to be like that, very frustrated, with anxiety and paranoia. I have had so many calls like that," she said.
She told the court that she saw Mr Pencille had cuts when she got home and asked him if he wanted to go to hospital, but he said "no". She then went to the chemist and got antiseptic wipes and plasters.
When she returned, he had shaved off his beard, she told jurors.
Train murder accused 'had panic attacks'
( didnt she also buy razor blades for him that day and he then shaved off his beard )
"It was quite normal for him to be like that, very frustrated, with anxiety and paranoia. I have had so many calls like that," she said.
She told the court that she saw Mr Pencille had cuts when she got home and asked him if he wanted to go to hospital, but he said "no". She then went to the chemist and got antiseptic wipes and plasters.
When she returned, he had shaved off his beard, she told jurors.
Train murder accused 'had panic attacks'
( didnt she also buy razor blades for him that day and he then shaved off his beard )
Later she drove him to a nearby pond so they could release lanterns for their stillborn child, born in May last year, she said.
While she drove, Pencille used her phone, she told the court, adding that he also called his solicitor.
But she said she felt no sense of urgency as they went to his flat in Bognor Regis to collect his mail or when she stopped at Tesco to buy food, a duvet and hair clippers.
She said it was not until after they returned home that night that she saw Facebook posts about the stabbing of Mr Pomeroy.
Darren Pencille: Man accused of train murder 'had frequent meltdowns', court hears
While she drove, Pencille used her phone, she told the court, adding that he also called his solicitor.
But she said she felt no sense of urgency as they went to his flat in Bognor Regis to collect his mail or when she stopped at Tesco to buy food, a duvet and hair clippers.
She said it was not until after they returned home that night that she saw Facebook posts about the stabbing of Mr Pomeroy.
Darren Pencille: Man accused of train murder 'had frequent meltdowns', court hears
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From that link:
A train passenger accused of murdering an IT consultant was previously convicted of knifing a man in the neck in a row about cigarette papers, a court heard. In February 2010 he pleaded guilty to wounding with intent after stabbing a man at an address he was living at in West Norwood, southeast London, the previous July. "It transpired he'd been stabbed twice to the left side of his neck and once to the shoulder," Mr Hallam said.
Pencille admitted another offence of common assault last June over an argument with a member of staff at another address he was living at, this time in Brixton, southwest London, two months earlier in April 2018. The prosecutor added: "Mr Pencille followed the victim and began to bang on the door of the staff office shouting 'I'm going to kill you, I'm going to kill you'." He said Pencille was later spotted wielding "a long metallic object".
Gotta be murder.
20 years+ please.
