Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #5 *ARREST*

[Zazie]

That’s a good point...not sure?
I’m probably thinking too much about what kind of scene, if any, at her house could’ve triggered the urgency of the search. Probably need to stop the ‘wild’ theories in my mind!!

The police seemed to have gone door-to-door in and around Libby's St according to the Heathcote St witness ("the police came round knocking on everybody’s doors on Saturday")

 

[Ched]

It's different for all of us, depending on how much the bladder is holding at the time of death, but it's generally around 1 hour that the muscles have relaxed enough to release anything that they normally hold in. In some cases I've seen it happen almost instantly, or around 10 minutes

Thanks how long though does it take to get dna back though once they send off for results ?

 

[Coach]

PR was arrested on Wednesday night, Libby was reported missing in the early hours of Friday morning. I wonder how he was acting at home and at work in the days before his arrest. I do believe that if he got her into his car under false pretence of driving her home and did not do so, it could be abduction.

 

[Quintet]

If police are asking about the time between last seen at 12:08 and 3AM, then he had 3 hours. We don't know what his wife was thinking, maybe she was asleep.

I still don't understand why police assume that her body was left nearby. The suspect has a car and she was last seen getting into that car. He may have assaulted her in the park, but did he leave her there or tell her to get in the car so he could take her home? If he was not seen again until 3AM, he could have gone anywhere.

This is where CCTV cameras and routes becomes really important. Does anyone have a link to the CCTV locations in Hull?

Perhaps the wife awoke at 3am, 3 month baby, 3am feeds etc and noticed PR was back home then. To me, he would have to have a reason to tell the wife he was going out on a night until the early hours. If it was to be an illegal taxi, I would have expected a lot of folk to have come forward to say they had been given a lift by PR prior. So, I’m wondering if, as his mother stated his hobby is fishing, that that is where his wife thinks he goes, night fishing, as in sat with rod at the side of a river.
I used to work for the Meat Hygiene Service and Malton Bacon Factory, as it was then called, was one of the places we checked regularly. The workers were often on a 12 hour shift basis, three days on, three days off, leaving plenty of time off for pastimes like fishing and knicker nicking!


Incidentally the flasher reported in York area in June 2017 for indecent exposure to two women, this took place on a fishing river. The e-fit resembling PR. It’s been suggested that a serial flasher called Kyril May have been responsible, but he was or had only just been released from prison for the third time and doesn’t appear to have been returned to prison, suggesting it wasn’t him!

 

[Steve0000]

I'd be torn to be perfectly honest. Especially when I was 21 and invincible - way before I learned hard life lessons, heard about awful stories like this or joined Websleuths!

Big group night out, everyone's together and buzzing and going clubbing, and one person is so hammered they can't get in. Does one person go home and put the drunk one to bed and then sit around annoyed that the night got cut short? Or do they decide to put drunk mate in a cab, probably ask them to text when they're home, possibly give the taxi driver the address, feeling like they've taken the best, safest option?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I don't think the friends can take any blame. If it was 3 girls etc. in another city going to a club in that city for the first time, then yes, you wouldn't split up. They have probably been to Welly so many times though, it's a city they live in and her place was not far away. They expected her to get out of the taxi and straight into her home.

I might agree with more responsibility on the friends if the person become ill or hurt themselves etc. but because one person in the group gets too silly drunk then it's not exactly fair on everyone else to end their night. It's not like they even got in the club and left her to get a taxi alone, they appeared to have sorted all that out and did the best they could.

 

[wtiger]

Just wondered.....

I would like to illustrate how the press are responsible for distorting things and painting the picture that they want to let people see.

Just as a matter of interest, how many people here are aware of any other suspects?

Anyone know of any other property searches?

Reason i ask is that without lots of digging around, i would have been totally unaware of the fact that a convicted sex offenders home was searched 3 days ago!

Selective reporting does not help anyone.

 

[Dowls90]

Thanks for doing this, really helpful! So basically, whether he turned left or right out of Haworth he'd have got clocked in either direction?

The police must have SO much more data from CCTV and his phone. Question is whether it marries up with what he's told them.

I think the police quoted that they had viewed over 100hours worth of footage. My thoughts are, everything he said checked out with CCTV and phone records or they would have charged him.

 

[LucyRocket]

Re screams, there are two separate reports from people in bed that I found had merged in my own mind - separated out below in case useful for anyone else (with apologies for repetition if not!)

Witness 1 @ 12.15
Home location not specified
“I woke at about quarter past 12 and there was a scream. It sounded like a woman’s scream towards the back of the park, where the river bank and pond is. Then 30 seconds later there was another scream. She must have screamed seven or eight times. All of the screams had gaps between them. The screams must have gone on for about 15 minutes. They sounded eerie, they sounded dark. Then I saw a male running."
Girl heard screaming in park just minutes after Libby Squire vanished

Witness 2 @ 12.30
Mother-of-two, Hull University graduate, dad is a retired policeman
Lives Heathcote St near junction with Wellesley Ave.
“We did hear screaming at 12.30 on Thursday night. I was just in bed reading. We do get a lot of students who live in the road that Libby lives in who use this road as a cut through. They go past screaming, shouting and singing. It’s not unusual. But this made us sit up. It sounded like someone being attacked. The scream sounded like it was coming from someone who was scared. It was someone walking quite close past our house. It was just one female scream. Then we heard other voices muttering very low, murmuring and then more screams and more male voices. Then we heard the slamming of a door. It sounded like a wooden door or a garden gate. It was just very odd. We didn’t think about it again until the police came round knocking on everybody’s doors on Saturday. We talked about it and remembered the scream and rang 101. It was really shrill and urgent. It made me sit up and think ‘Oh my God’."
Libby Squire's neighbour claims to have heard a woman’s "blood curdling" scream

Thanks for this, great post.

Although.... when I read the description of the 'blood curdling' scream and remember the suggestion that it could have been sex noises

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Sorry to ask such a question but if a dead body had been in a car but no blood etc how long does it take police to find ‘traces’ in the car ?

More likely a dog would find it than a person. This is in an interesting read:

One of the questions surrounding human cadaver dogs is how soon after death they can recognise a corpse, and how long a "fresh" corpse must remain in one place for a dog to detect that it has been there. In a study published last year, the forensic pathologist Lars Oesterhelweg, then at the University of Bern in Switzerland, and colleagues tested the ability of three Hamburg State Police cadaver dogs to pick out – of a line-up of six new carpet squares – the one that had been exposed for no more than 10 minutes to a recently deceased person.

Several squares had been placed beneath a clothed corpse within three hours of death, when some organs and many cells of the human body are still functioning. Over the next month, the dogs did hundreds of trials in which they signalled the contaminated square with 98 per cent accuracy, falling to 94 per cent when the square had been in contact with the corpse for only two minutes. The research concluded that cadaver dogs were an "outstanding tool" for crime-scene investigation.

So basically, if Libby had been dead in the car that police have seized, a cadaver dog would be able to signal that there was indeed the scent of death.

I guess, from the fact there's been no arrest for murder, that she was never dead in that vehicle.

 

[Strontium69]

I've been following this thread for a couple of days.

I live somewhere between the Welly Club on Beverley Road and Raglan Street/Newland Avenue.

I've lived around this area for 20 or so years and know the area well. I'm a cyclist and a photographer, so I do get in the nooks and craneys of the city, often at night as well. I know Beresford Park area well, and that area of the river and the drain.

There's a lot about this case that makes no sense, and mostly it is linked to timings.

There is so much that doesn't make sense, I wondered if the Police were doing that on purpose to wrong-foot someone who they thought was till at large?

Things I don't get;
1 - Why her mother was so bombastic about her getting home. I believe the Police agreed with her afterwards. DID the mother accidentally give away info the Police had given her that she wasn't meant to make public?

2 - Her journey home from the nightclub. Police are insistent she gets 'home' at 11:29. Did I read that was from the taxi confirming the drop off on it's computer? But then why can't they confirm the pick up? There is a taxi rank close to Welly, so it's probable that the taxi was parked up outside as they often are, or perhaps he had just dropped off?

Regardless, and I know they qualify the pick up time as 'around 11pm' but to claim that the journey took 29 minutes is insane. It's 4-5 minutes at the most. It's a mile, and a little bit maybe, late night, one or two traffic lights junctions.

Does that mean that shes/they were so drunk it took them 15 minutes to get her in a taxi? Why does the taxi firm not provide a definitive fair start?

3 - Being turned away from Welly. Was it the bouncers or her friends who helped her into the taxi that 'confirmed' the approx time of 11am?

This batch of 'friends' bothers me a little. (And not for the reasons of 'abandoning' their friend). One of her 'best friends' spoke to the media a few days ago - I recall him saying 2 things of interest - 1) that she often went out without her phone and 2) the last time HE saw her was at a house party, they all left in groups to go to Well, when he got into Welly he heard that she hadn't got in.

So have we heard from any of the actual friends who physically put her in the taxi? Or have we heard from any of the bouncers that they remember turning her away?

AND if her other friends did bundle her into the taxi, did they know, as he suggest they might, that she didn't have her phone or keys on her?

So that raises the question that I've seen raised here, did she have her keys and phone and txt her mum when she got home... i.e. the end of the taxi ride, but not necessarily inside her house.

We also don't know the make up of the shared house - it could be one with a communal front door and separate flats, in which case she could have entered the front door into the hall but not got into her room because she didn't have her key?

Her sitting on the bench suggests two possibilities to me;
1 - she did not have her keys/phone and was drunk/upset/disorientated and so went to sit on the bench?
or
2 - she made it home, and went out to meet someone

The report I read early on stated that the Police removed her phone from her room not just from the property - but it's unclear if that was a media mash.

Anyway, sorry about the long ramble post, didn't mean to go on so much!

This has got people around here gripped, and not in a pleasant way.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I think the police quoted that they had viewed over 100hours worth of footage. My thoughts are, everything he said checked out with CCTV and phone records or they would have charged him.

The question is whether there is any CCTV off Beresford Road or around Wellesley Avenue or the park. Because if there isn't then the digital trail just went cold.

 

[Dowls90]

With such a heavy focus on the playing fields, is it too unreasonable to presume she could have been dumped/fallen into the river Hull and carried out to sea? At that point there's little hope of finding a body and would explain why the police are focusing there but still have yet to find anything. Plus, if she didn't have her phone or keys on her, what else is there to find except a body? She must have been linked to the fields somehow for them to keep checking there no?

Bit of a morbid first comment but wanted to get other peoples thoughts.

Firstly welcome

I completely agree, I think they have good reason to be searching that area. What I don't understand is why they are using strimmers etc to cut through the foliage. Surely if there is the possibility of evidence they are going to strim the crap out of it?!

 

[pinklilies]

It's set back in a walled area, so difficult to see
View attachment 168789 View attachment 168790

Thank you Lucy rocket but I actually meant which takeaway. I edited my post to state takeaway as it wasn't clear, but you won't have seen that. The only eatery I can see is the Tapasya. It's website states it's a fine dining restaurant, shuts at 10.30pm and is closed at the moment for a refurb. So cannot see Libby waiting at the bench for anyone she may know from there. But is the cctv on that building the cctv that has captured Libby on the bench? TIA

 

[Griffinlay]

If, as it seems, the police are convinced the evidence required to find LS is in Oak Park, have they not sealed off the whole area from the public? Would it not make sense to do this and put a large number of officers and maybe dogs on the ground and to get the search completed at a faster pace?
This way if the evidence or LS is not there they can then review their next steps.
Why do we feel they are so convinced the answer is in the park?

 

[Miss_French]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/libby-squire-missing-latest-hull-university-disappear-hull-welly-club-lisa-squire-humberside-police-a8760821.html

Are we discounting this quote in the Independent by her mum which suggests Libby DID enter her property? I think the simple answer to most things in this case is we don’t know. We don’t know if she entered her house, what time she was reported missing, where EXACTLY she was at 12:05am or even in which direction she was heading when seen by neighbours opposite. Until police provide a further update, everything unconfirmed is conjecture. Frustrating, but let’s hope police have good reason for not making the available facts public. I’m sure they do.

That link has the police saying Libby got out of the taxi CLOSE to her house. It's been discounted on here because there's witness statements (taxi driver and 2 students) to say she arrived AT the house, not that she entered. Mum is going on second-hand informationinformation and being at home isn't in her home.

 

[LucyRocket]

Thanks how long though does it take to get dna back though once they send off for results ?

Oh sorry

Again with the variables of how many need processing at a particular time, around 72 hours. They've actually now developed a system where DNA can be done using a swab and running it through a database, pretty much as quickly as fingerprints, don't think it's used very widely yet, so 24-72 hours is usual. A lot faster than in the states I believe!

 

[Dowls90]

Re screams, there are two separate reports from people in bed that I found had merged in my own mind - separated out below in case useful for anyone else (with apologies for repetition if not!)

Witness 1 @ 12.15
Home location not specified
“I woke at about quarter past 12 and there was a scream. It sounded like a woman’s scream towards the back of the park, where the river bank and pond is. Then 30 seconds later there was another scream. She must have screamed seven or eight times. All of the screams had gaps between them. The screams must have gone on for about 15 minutes. They sounded eerie, they sounded dark. Then I saw a male running."
Girl heard screaming in park just minutes after Libby Squire vanished

Witness 2 @ 12.30
Mother-of-two, Hull University graduate, dad is a retired policeman
Lives Heathcote St near junction with Wellesley Ave.
“We did hear screaming at 12.30 on Thursday night. I was just in bed reading. We do get a lot of students who live in the road that Libby lives in who use this road as a cut through. They go past screaming, shouting and singing. It’s not unusual. But this made us sit up. It sounded like someone being attacked. The scream sounded like it was coming from someone who was scared. It was someone walking quite close past our house. It was just one female scream. Then we heard other voices muttering very low, murmuring and then more screams and more male voices. Then we heard the slamming of a door. It sounded like a wooden door or a garden gate. It was just very odd. We didn’t think about it again until the police came round knocking on everybody’s doors on Saturday. We talked about it and remembered the scream and rang 101. It was really shrill and urgent. It made me sit up and think ‘Oh my God’."
Libby Squire's neighbour claims to have heard a woman’s "blood curdling" scream

I just don't understand why they wouldn't report these at the time! Saying they sounded "dark" or "urgent" after they found out someone is missing just makes me think they have over thought what they heard previously maybe?

 

[Ched]

Can someone clarify exactly this for me please from media quotes

They all get to club , some go to get money ? Some must go in club ? Who puts her in taxi ? They get back from getting money and she’s already in taxi ?

I’m really not sure of the actual facts that happened at club address

 

[Strontium69]

Can someone clarify exactly this for me please from media quotes

They all get to club , some go to get money ? Some must go in club ? Who puts her in taxi ? They get back from getting money and she’s already in taxi ?

I’m really not sure of the actual facts that happened at club address

This is a major thing for me. I know she is seen alive later elsewhere, but there is definitely something missing from Welly...

 

[ScrutineerContraption]

Thank you Lucy rocket but I actually meant which takeaway. I edited my post to state takeaway as it wasn't clear, but you won't have seen that. The only eatery I can see is the Tapasya. It's website states it's a fine dining restaurant, shuts at 10.30pm and is closed at the moment for a refurb. So cannot see Libby waiting at the bench for anyone she may know from there. But is the cctv on that building the cctv that has captured Libby on the bench? TIA

There's takeaways across the road a few metres down next to Sainsbury's. 'Yankee Chicken' is open till 1am.