Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #5 *ARREST*

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  • #1,021
He would not be charged automatically if they have proof she was in his car ..not on that alone

Something that was drummed into us baby lawyers on "Profs" (the bar exam training) is that the indictment laid against the defendant must disclose all the key elements of the actus reus of the crime.

Actus reus: the action or conduct which is a constituent element of a crime, as opposed to the mental state of the accused.

Because most criminal trials are about intention or identity, the difficulties posed by this requirement are often overlooked.

So in a typical murder indictment, you need to state who died, some detail of the what actions caused them to die, and a statement that the offender did those actions.

You can see the problems here.

Where is the proof Libby is dead? What actions caused her to die? Who did them?

Inferring the defendant had something to do with it all is pretty far short of what CPS needs.
 
  • #1,022
i cant see how the business owners of the electrical company left just after 12. On the cctv the silver car blocks the gates. They would need to get a vehicle out of the gates? unless the other car seen drive past is one of theirs.

I thought the statement was that they left minutes after the car had gone - and the sister ? was saying - if only they had come out a few minutes earlier, they might have seen what was going on and been able to intervene.
 
  • #1,023
Exactly, for me it's a stretch to believe he was just a knight in shining armour doing a good deed that night. He's a deviant predator and he found vulnerable prey, is what I think.
Definitely not the knight in shining armour, not sure anyone has painted that picture. It might be possible for him to have seized this opportunity with someone vulnerable but it went wrong
 
  • #1,024
  • #1,025
If he admitted to police that Libby was in his car but claimed he dropped her off somewhere, that would probably be enough to justify the interview extensions but not enough to charge him with abduction. It sounds like he's got a story that he's sticking to, and until the police find a body, they're going to struggle to prove he's lying.

Yes

The bar to arrest is a much lower bar than charging. The police had good reasons to suspect his involvement in a serious crime.

But that is far short of successfully prosecuting him to BARD standard
 
  • #1,026
There's a house across the street on beverley road, I think it's possibly flats, maybe student accommodation, anyhow it is covered by 2 CCTV cameras, one points left one points right, I think there's a good chance these would have picked up some footage, there's also a shop with CCTV next to the bookies that looks like it could point in that direction, there's a few other cameras on some buildings but most look like they cover doorways and not much else, I'm guessing the police would have recovered some good evidence from these cameras,

Then there's the bus, eyms have cameras on all buses that record in front and behind the vehicle as well as inside:
The x46 passes bench side around 11:47
Obviously if she crossed the road at some point then she could have been picked up from a bus traveling the opposite direction.
Another note is most of Beverley road operates a restricted bus lane, now I don't think it's is enforced at that time of night and I'm not sure how the cameras work on the bus lanes, are they turned of after restrictions end? Do they only pick up movement when something travels in the lane or is it constant?
I do know they are pretty quick at sending you a fine if you enter it, so I'm always careful when driving down beverley road.
 
  • #1,027
Or, far simpler, they got his registration from the CCTV near the last sighting of Libby.

Yep.

We know they had the CCTV cobweb video on the Sunday. Crossmatching that to the traffic cams gave the the rego.

The video gave them a window down to the minute of what time codes to check.
 
  • #1,028
.the other thing to remember is the police have the spider cctv for X number of hours (not sure how long they run for before they record over ) we have been told that car arrives 20 mins before (I believe) they would however been able to see the car behind that drives off first arrive too .
 
  • #1,029
There's a house across the street on beverley road, I think it's possibly flats, maybe student accommodation, anyhow it is covered by 2 CCTV cameras, one points left one points right, I think there's a good chance these would have picked up some footage, there's also a shop with CCTV next to the bookies that looks like it could point in that direction, there's a few other cameras on some buildings but most look like they cover doorways and not much else, I'm guessing the police would have recovered some good evidence from these cameras,

Then there's the bus, eyms have cameras on all buses that record in front and behind the vehicle as well as inside:
The x46 passes bench side around 11:47
Obviously if she crossed the road at some point then she could have been picked up from a bus traveling the opposite direction.
Another note is most of Beverley road operates a restricted bus lane, now I don't think it's is enforced at that time of night and I'm not sure how the cameras work on the bus lanes, are they turned of after restrictions end? Do they only pick up movement when something travels in the lane or is it constant?
I do know they are pretty quick at sending you a fine if you enter it, so I'm always careful when driving down beverley road.

I think they have her on CCTV direct.

They know down to the minute when she left the bench.
 
  • #1,030
.the other thing to remember is the police have the spider tv for X number of hours (not sure how long they run for before they record over ) we have been told that car arrives 20 mins before (I believe) they would however been able to see the car behind that drives off first arrive too .

Yeah exactly.

We have been shown only one snippet of the whole picture.
 
  • #1,031
Yes, good point. How DID they keep getting extensions? They're generally only granted for really serious crimes like murder, not sure that any of his current charges would qualify.

Video of libby getting in car. Never seen again. Unreliable explanation from suspect.

Easily enough

Now if PR was a well to do gentlemen with a high end QC, maybe it might have been different.
 
  • #1,032
I think regarding the abduction charge initially, and further to my theory in my last post. If police arrested on basis that they had footage of her going with him obviously his initial explanation was most likely that she was upset and he offered to take her home. If they then had further footage that he didn’t drive in that direction or of her in car in location away from home, that would lead them to believe an abduction since a) no force was used (so not kidnapping) and b) he had ‘falsely persuaded’ her to go with him. Since she was then missing abduction would make sense. And then if they have evidence of him leaving park (to go with my theory) without her, and can find nothing in car to suggest she was anywhere other than in passenger seat, his story, if it ties in with what has been said by sister (presumably via him) that someone tried it on with someone, and she ran off...and he has alibi ever since the incident, on the face of it, could be true.
 
  • #1,033
Natalie Bell‏ @nbell186
Nearly 2 weeks after she was last seen, a vigil will be held tonight for missing #Hull student Libby Squire. People will light candles for her at her local church in West Wycombe in Buckinghamshire #HelpFindLibby

DzRt7GbW0AEPx-g.jpg


Natalie Bell on Twitter
 
  • #1,034
Hello all, I’ve been following and reading with great interest and have a possible theory of my own. This is based partly on my behaviour at the same age as Libby, the self harming suggestions makes me feel that her mindset may be similar to mine at her age.

She returns home, disorientated when taxi driver drops her off. Doesn’t realise she is back or just doesn’t want to go in there alone feeling deflated and upset the night has come to premature end. The bench-I’ve done the same myself many times, just randomly sat down when drunk but feeling that you’re in a public place. The old guy who approached probably concerned her, we all have stereotypes. I would have declined his help. Then PR spots her and approaches as she’s upset. He is younger, not unattractive and doesn’t seem a threat, I agree with another earlier post that the Eastern European accent can be more charming/less intimidating, in certain situations. He probably asks if she wants to go home and maybe with him as comfort she agrees. It’s quite possible that she does tell him her postcode, sometimes it’s one of those things that is programmed into you when drunk, like you need to remember facts and they just come randomly. So he might have put it into the Nav as even if he’d been there before it might not have registered in his mind where he was. I don’t know the street names surrounding me despite walking past them quite regularly.

Next I’m thinking one of two things happened. She maybe did seem interested in him a little? I’ve done it under the influence, especially someone who is insecure and then there’s this chance of some attention. So did he drive and park somewhere near the park to be initimate? And thought all his luck had come at once before Libby suddenly realised he was full on and she made a run for it? In the dark, freezing, drunk and disorientated? Perhaps she did have an accident? And then he returns home in a panic because he is married and has a history of the crimes we have discovered and can’t afford to have all of that exposed (excuse the pun).

Alternatively the opposite happens and he makes the move on her and the same result is she does a runner. Maybe she even falls asleep in the car if he drives for a bit and then she catches him doing something inappropriate to himself when she wakes up?

So he keeps his head down for the following days but police find some footage with him in it and make the arrest. They discover her postcode in ‘a’ sat nav (not built in I realise) and when he calls family to explain why he’s been arrested he tells wife/sister the story. Only he can’t tell the the part about being parked up because he has a wife and children to consider so simply says he took her home.

So the police might consider this abduction because he didn’t plan to take her home as he went to the park but they can’t charge him with anything more because the end result was an accident? And of course they don’t yet have proof of that.

Thank you for these scenario's. The end of both scenarios is what I've been mooting from the start. That he became more implicated than reality and that the evening was a series of unfortunate incidences and poor Libby ran off, in the dark and ended up in the water. IMO

I do find it amusing with that in mind that his perving has come to the attention of the entire country he moved to, his homeland and the rest of the world. Its like karma came back to bite him - more than he could ever imagined. It all went horribly wrong for him and even worse for poor Libby. IMO
 
  • #1,035
  • #1,036
I think regarding the abduction charge initially, and further to my theory in my last post. If police arrested on basis that they had footage of her going with him obviously his initial explanation was most likely that she was upset and he offered to take her home. If they then had further footage that he didn’t drive in that direction or of her in car in location away from home, that would lead them to believe an abduction since a) no force was used (so not kidnapping) and b) he had ‘falsely persuaded’ her to go with him. Since she was then missing abduction would make sense. And then if they have evidence of him leaving park (to go with my theory) without her, and can find nothing in car to suggest she was anywhere other than in passenger seat, his story, if it ties in with what has been said by sister (presumably via him) that someone tried it on with someone, and she ran off...and he has alibi ever since the incident, on the face of it, could be true.

Yeah my guess, and it is only a guess, is that they have him at the park like you say

But also, I wonder if he was clever enough to drive by her house and/or stop there, Or maybe that was just how it originally went down.

So I am confident his story is she got out, disappeared off the face of planet earth, and it is all nothing to do with him.
 
  • #1,037
But they gave permission.

They don't have to give permission it's not their footage.

I'm assuming the media hung on before releasing it out of courtesy not because they legally couldn't release it.
 
  • #1,038
Sorry another question , how much would the police actually tell Libby’s parents ? Do they tell them more than the public or is it just the same as us but with a lot more sympathy and reassurance? Thanks
 
  • #1,039
I wonder what this person means by the sound of someone being “harassed?”

But she said the nature of the scream she heard on Friday morning was unusual and sounded like a woman was “being harassed”.

She said the scream was followed by male voices and the sound of a “bang”.

She said: “It was an urgent scream. It was panicked. It sounded like she was being harassed. That’s not unusual but not that kind of scream.”

She said she had spoken to police about what she had heard.
Officers to speak to people in area where Libby Squire was last seen in Hull - AOL

Very interesting!
 
  • #1,040
I thought the statement was that they left minutes after the car had gone - and the sister ? was saying - if only they had come out a few minutes earlier, they might have seen what was going on and been able to intervene.

ah sorry, Ive not seen that statement.
 
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