Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen getting into taxi outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #6 *ARREST*

[Officer Dibble]

I've been thinking about the park screams and that it made sense that she could have been running away screaming.

But if I was being chased through the park by a nutter id be screaming "help someone's trying to kill me!" At the top of my lungs!

If you were hiding in bushes in the park, hearing him get near, running on, repeat all that again etc you would in the pitch dark feel branches of trees or a bramble or whatever foliage, think that whatever just touched you was the man who is chasing you/flashed you (etc) and scream. You'd be freaked out. Or ditto that going down the river. You'd think it would be him or something else creepy. You'd be on ultra creeped out alert in the dark if you were scared.

 

[Sera]

We are talking about this spider web cam guy possibly being an innocent citizen going about his innocent business, not being the wanger waving knicker nicker

Thanks for this, my partner and I have nearly just fallen off the sofa laughing.

 

[Officer Dibble]

The footage is poor in general, but the one thing that looks clear to me is the fact that the man in is wearing shorts.

I quoted several times the exact time you can see the bottom of the shorts on HIS right leg move. I also quoted where his ankle bend over and you can see his footwear. I think iirc the shorts bit was 0:54 on you tube from the daily mail (fail) magnified footage and using the cog at the bottom I slowed it down to watch it in slower motion to 0.25. You can also see his bare knee.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Here’s another missing person (arrest just made) for our lovely UK sleuths:

UK - UK - Joy Morgan, 20, Hatfield, Hertfordshire, Dec 2018

Thanks, cybervampira. Would you mind posting it in the UK thread (to get more traffic), I can't cut and paste at the mo.

 

[PaddyOreally?]

If you were hiding in bushes in the park, hearing him get near, running on, repeat all that again etc you would in the pitch dark feel branches of trees or a bramble or whatever foliage, think that whatever just touched you was the man who is chasing you/flashed you (etc) and scream. You'd be freaked out. Or ditto that going down the river. You'd think it would be him or something else creepy. You'd be on ultra creeped out alert in the dark if you were scared.

Yeah that makes sense!

Something about the distance of the screams from the witness is bugging me. But I do think he would be able to hear it.

Do we know how old the witness is? Because if it was a younger person it would explain why no one called the police when they were heard.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Plus the complication that the Heathcote witness says there was more than one male voice!

No male witnesses in the street that night appear to have shared their story to the media, or been explicitly cleared by the police (apart from the two waiting for the taxi earlier) so perhaps Heathcote witness has heard perpetrator/s in their street.

But as someone pointed out before, that could be one man, using two different languages in a low voice. They'd sound like two men.

 

[Curiousobserver]

So it's not a clue in the park that has them searching there. It's that they are sure she goes in, but unsure if/how she came out?

So if she was taken out of the park in car, they are currently looking in the park for some clue towards that?


Put it another way with a different example: The Police have Suspect A, and they believe what they need to nail Suspect A is on a SIM CARD in his possession. IF they are certain that sim card is in his house they will keep going until they find it. They will empty the entire contents of the house into a secure warehouse and finger tip search every item. The will take the carpets out, they will take back wall paper, remove fixtur.

I think might be more like: They know she was picked up in a silver car. They can't find the silver passing by any intersection (covered by CCTV) outside of defined circle that includes that park. The park is the perfect place to commit a crime at night. They also know the silver car they think they see was home after a certain amount of time. They don't know for sure what happened or where but they are betting it was in that park; thus the seemingly random pattern to the searches.

 

[Strontium69]

Incidentally... if anyone is interested in a more detailed breakdown of the Oak Road playing fields/pond/river area that can't be got at by Google maps I do know the area very well. I'd be happy to oblige so that you can build up a better idea of the physical geography of the area? Only if people are interested? It's a huge area, and I can pretty locate every photo as to where it is in the park, but I guess for out of towners it could all seem almost random in that area? Not sure if the MSM have provided any detailed maps/breakdowns?

I notice how the press are just discovering how gorgeous this city is! It is a hole, but it is the greenist hole in Europe. (Literally, I saw a stat somewhere that said that Hull had the largest area of green patches within it's boundaries than any other city in Europe... may or may not still be true!)

The problem, as I've highlighted in posts earlier, is as law and order retreats, so these green areas during the day area dark areas at night, and our greatest assets become our greatest threats.

LMK and I'll put something together to give a physical breakdown of that whole area.

 

[Strontium69]

I think might be more like: They know she was picked up in a silver car. They can't find the silver passing by any intersection (covered by CCTV) outside of defined circle that includes that park. The park is the perfect place to commit a crime at night. They also know the silver car they think they see was home after a certain amount of time. They don't know for sure what happened or where but they are betting it was in that park; thus the seemingly random pattern to the searches.

Which makes the search in the park even worse in terms of what they are looking for, if they aren't even sure that she went to the park, but that the park is just a possibility.

So does that man they are 'eliminating the park from their enquiries'?

Which would explain the hack-n-slash - it's a prospective search for a possible something/anything.

 

[flowerpot]

I've been thinking about the park screams and that it made sense that she could have been running away screaming.

But if I was being chased through the park by a nutter id be screaming "help someone's trying to kill me!" At the top of my lungs!

It would seem to fit the theory, in my opinion anyway. But yes, like you I think I'd be trying to verbalise at least a "Help!" or I'd like to think I would! But then... if you're drunk and your brain doesn't want to connect with your mouth as fast as you'd like it to or more likely you're feeling sheer terror then I'm not sure I would be able to muster more than my loudest scream!

 

[PaddyOreally?]

So it's not a clue in the park that has them searching there. It's that they are sure she goes in, but unsure if/how she came out?

So if she was taken out of the park in car, they are currently looking in the park for some clue towards that?

Does that mean that they are at this stage not sure what they are looking for in the park, only that they are looking for something/anything in connection with Libby, PR, AN Other, or anything linked to that night?

Put it another way with a different example: The Police have Suspect A, and they believe what they need to nail Suspect A is on a SIM CARD in his possession. IF they are certain that sim card is in his house they will keep going until they find it. They will empty the entire contents of the house into a secure warehouse and finger tip search every item. The will take the carpets out, they will take back wall paper, remove fixtures/fittings. Time and manpower is not an issue IF THEY BELIEVE that Sim card is in that house they KNOW they will find it.

Did you notice that when they were searching PR's house, they were looking at the loft FROM THE OUTSIDE with an infrared camera. They absolutely would have been all over the inside of that loft, probably also with infrared.

So for instance, even a park as big as Oak Road Playing Fields/Beresford Park IF the Police WERE CERTAIN that a weapon had been discarded in the park, they would be certain they would be able to find it. They would finger tip search, time and manpower no issue, until they found it.

I also believe they would be briefing the media "We are lookign for X in this park, we are sure it is there and we WILL find it".

They've never made any such statement in this case. If they were looking for an implement, or traces of a car in a case they normally would say. Again, even if they didn't state they were looking for a body, I have not seen any evidence of dogs in the park. I've seen endless photos of marine units, people clearing undergroath and looking through bins, but ne'er a sign of a dog.

Which leads me to believe that they don't know what they are looking for. Which makes it an open ended search, there literally could be NOTHING in that Park of any relation to this.

It seems a bit like the police are just turning up at the park for an hour each day so the press can report that they are still looking.

If they knew what they were looking for would they not close the park. Because if there was a crime scene it'll be ruined by now wouldn't it?

 

[aworldofmadness]

Which makes the search in the park even worse in terms of what they are looking for, if they aren't even sure that she went to the park, but that the park is just a possibility.

So does that man they are 'eliminating the park from their enquiries'?

Which would explain the hack-n-slash - it's a prospective search for a possible something/anything.

Since you know the area - is the brush that they've been cutting back quite dense and spiky? I wonder if they're clearing to allow the dogs in? If it was too dense before then it might not have been possible to get dogs in certain areas, perhaps?

 

[hitthenick]

I think this is a question @hitthenick or @TTWO can clarify. I believe it has been stated here that the cars are the same.

Yes cars are the same.

The car in CCTV on Newlands definitely isn't the same car though.

I don't understand why stella says people being in agreement the spider car isnt the same. Its an exact like for like VX Astra in that video compared to the Astra recovered by police. Considering it's said he picked her up, she was last seen at the bench and funnily enough an identical Astra to PR's appears in Howarth for 20 mins, it can't be a coincidence as his car was where she was last seen and he is known to have picked her up.

 

[Kitkat28]

People are taking the reports of the screams as fact. I’m not 100% convinced that they have the significance they are being given.

People like to insert themselves into investigations, and making up something that would get you right in the middle of it is a great way to feel part of it.

Alternatively, people will make events fit to a timeline; I hear screams all the time (foxes and humans messing about), so if I heard screaming on Monday and Wednesday and I later heard about an assault on Tuesday, I would probably convince myself that I had remembered the day wrong.

I remember reading a quote from the police about the screams at the beginning of the investigation and I felt that they weren’t giving the reports much credence. I’ll see if I can find the article again.

 

[User1111]

I too have been frustrated by these odd searches. However, it may have been noted by someone I.e. his wife that he lost his ring/his phone etc. recently and since LS went missing. They need to find something to place him here. Maybe?

 

[Zazie]

Yeah that makes sense! Something about the distance of the screams from the witness is bugging me. But I do think he would be able to hear it. Do we know how old the witness is? Because if it was a younger person it would explain why no one called the police when they were heard.

I don't think we know, only that they're a son living with his father in a house that overlooks the playing fields. They didn't want to be named in the papers. I just found a slightly longer version of their account in the Express which sounds vaguer due to the inclusion of the sentence "I thought I must be dreaming":

"A witness living close to the park, who did not wish to be named, said: "I woke up at about quarter past 12 and then a few minutes later there was a scream in the distance, it sounded like a woman's scream towards the back of the park where the river bank and pond is. Then about 30 seconds later there was another scream. She must have screamed about seven or eight times. The screams must have gone on for about 15 minutes. Because of this pattern I thought I must be dreaming. They sounded eerie, they sounded dark. Then I saw a male running, but not looking back."
Libby Squire disappearance: 'Eerie' screaming heard as student vanishes

Here's the more widely reproduced version with the dreaming detail edited out:
“I woke at about quarter past 12 and there was a scream. It sounded like a woman’s scream towards the back of the park, where the river bank and pond is. Then 30 seconds later there was another scream. She must have screamed seven or eight times. All of the screams had gaps between them. The screams must have gone on for about 15 minutes. They sounded eerie, they sounded dark. Then I saw a male running."
Girl heard screaming in park just minutes after Libby Squire vanished

And the quote from his father:
"My son heard the screaming - he heard about six or seven screams - and he went to look out of the window. He said it sounded like he* was moving. It was intermittent. The man he saw wasn't dressed for a night out. He wasn't dressed for the weather. He saw him running for around 40 yards, sprinting at times. He said he was on his own and he wasn’t looking back."
Libby Squire: Police examining CCTV footage which may show missing student

(* I think this is a typo for 'she'.)

 

[hitthenick]

I can't copy the post over because it was in the previous thread, but it was a query as to whether there could be an innocent explanation for spider web cam guy's actions. I think there absolutely could. For example this:

His girlfriend/ mum/ brother/ sister/ wife .... works in one of the establishments on the main road, they finish shift at 12, he parks up there where it's not too busy, away from the heavy traffic, and walks up to meet them from their shift to give them a lift home

Or keeping things very simple, he picked Libby up and drove off. Sometimes the simplest things are true.

 

[User1111]

Or maybe hoping to find her snagged clothing caught in Bracken? Even of they find these things this is more a hunt for evidence than a hunt for Libby herself.

 

[PaddyOreally?]

I don't think we know, only that they're a son living with his father in a house that overlooks the playing fields. They didn't want to be named in the papers. I just found a slightly longer version of their account in the Express which sounds vaguer due to the inclusion of the sentence "I thought I must be dreaming":

"A witness living close to the park, who did not wish to be named, said: "I woke up at about quarter past 12 and then a few minutes later there was a scream in the distance, it sounded like a woman's scream towards the back of the park where the river bank and pond is. Then about 30 seconds later there was another scream. She must have screamed about seven or eight times. The screams must have gone on for about 15 minutes. Because of this pattern I thought I must be dreaming. They sounded eerie, they sounded dark. Then I saw a male running, but not looking back."
Libby Squire disappearance: 'Eerie' screaming heard as student vanishes

Here's the more widely reproduced version with the dreaming detail edited out:
“I woke at about quarter past 12 and there was a scream. It sounded like a woman’s scream towards the back of the park, where the river bank and pond is. Then 30 seconds later there was another scream. She must have screamed seven or eight times. All of the screams had gaps between them. The screams must have gone on for about 15 minutes. They sounded eerie, they sounded dark. Then I saw a male running."
Girl heard screaming in park just minutes after Libby Squire vanished

And the quote from his father:
"My son heard the screaming - he heard about six or seven screams - and he went to look out of the window. He said it sounded like he* was moving. It was intermittent. The man he saw wasn't dressed for a night out. He wasn't dressed for the weather. He saw him running for around 40 yards, sprinting at times. He said he was on his own and he wasn’t looking back."
Libby Squire: Police examining CCTV footage which may show missing student

(* I think this is a typo for 'she'.)

I bet he ran to wake his dad up and got told to sod off

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Quick Poll results from thread 5

[I firmly believe, my opinion of course, that the CCTV is PR and Libby and that he has confirmed that to police. So, on that basis.... 'like' whichever option sits best with you at the moment]


PR picked Libby up and dropped her safely at home. What happened to her next is a mystery and nothing to do with him
1

PR picked Libby up and something happened in the car or park. She got out and ran and has come to some sort of harm herself.
13

PR picked Libby up and attacked her in the park, hence the screams, he killed her (accidentally or otherwise) and has disposed of her body
33