GUILTY UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, found deceased, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #25

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  • #161
@sophcorcoran
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@sophcorcoran
Jury are now coming back in after giving in a note. It was a question about re-reading the witness statement of SA. Justice Lambert has read to the jury what Mr A said in his evidence at the time he gave it.

Edited by me to show initials only
 
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  • #162
You can't and I can't but, there are definitely still average people on the street who think that if a woman is drunk then it's not rape its 'her asking for trouble'. Let's hope there's not one if those on the jury!
I don't think that's the same thing. The law is the law, even when someone has put themselves at risk through their own actions.
 
  • #163
You can't and I can't but, there are definitely still average people on the street who think that if a woman is drunk then it's not rape its 'her asking for trouble'. Let's hope there's not one if those on the jury!

There were those uncomfortable phrases from the defence about Libby's being "indifferent to her own safety" and "reckless of her own safety", relayed in the context of possible suicide yet it seemed to me they might also function as dog whistles to jurors with that attitude.
 
  • #164
Can the court staff give the judge an idea of how deliberations appear to be progressing?
 
  • #165
@sophcorcoran
Jury are now coming back in after giving in a note. It was a question about re-reading the witness statement of Sam Alford. Justice Lambert has read to the jury what Mr Alford said in his evidence at the time he gave it.
This will be the original witness statement, not the evidence given in court?
Sounds like they want to check whether running was mentioned.
 
  • #166
14:54
Jury asked for witness statement to be read out

The judge has been called back in to re-read the statment of SA at the request of the jury..

He was the man who lived in a house just next to Oak Road playing fields who heard a woman screaming and then saw a man hurrying away from the park.

Justice Lambert told the jury: “He [SA] says he recalled speaking to police about screams he had heard and the individual he had seen afterwards.

"The events were fresh when he gave his first statement and he was referring to something he heard on February 1, 2019.

"He woke up looked at his phone and said it was about a minute after he looked at his phone he heard a scream. He looked at his phone and it was 12.14am.

"His partner had texted him so he checked the text on his phone and he didn’t know what caused him to wake up. He said when he was awake a minute or two when he heard the screams.

"He said the screams were far away but loud enough to reach his window, around 150 metres away.

"He said ‘in the direction north from my bedroom.’ He said there was a track and a bit of woodland and the river running around the back.

"He was asked some questions about the screams and said the first two were intermittent with 30 seconds or ones minute between and wondered what it was.

"It was the second that got him thinking they had a pattern. He talked about the pattern of life living there teenagers drinking in the park and girls screaming behaviour he intended to ignore.

"He heard the screams again and couldn’t see anything. He said they were human from a woman and said they were enough to think ‘what could they be'.

He said 'they portrayed to me desperation and continued for three to five minutes, three to seven, I can only give you an estimation probably four to seven minutes. I went to the toilet and came back and looked out the window and they had stopped'.

He knelt on his bed and looked out the window. He said it was more he couldn’t see and after around three to five minutes he saw a man walking along the path. It was a man walking along in a manner he described as assertive, not looking behind and knowing where he wanted to go.

"He said he was heading straight forward before he left his vision. He was asked about a police statement he gave in February 4 and said he told the truth at the time.

"He said he had never seen the man running off. He described him as moving as if he wanted to get out of there.

"He had said he wanted to get out of the park and was walking with urgency and moving with a purpose to get off the park. As for the clothing being worn by the man he described joggers or jeans and some sort of hooded jacket.”

Libby Squire murder trial updates as jury out for fourth day
 
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  • #167
There were those uncomfortable phrases from the defence about Libby's being "indifferent to her own safety" and "reckless of her own safety", relayed in the context of possible suicide yet it seemed to me they might also function as dog whistles to jurors with that attitude.
It still doesn't affect the law. That is what counts here.
 
  • #168
This will be the original witness statement, not the evidence given in court?
Sounds like they want to check whether running was mentioned.

God this is agonising, 3pm on day 4 and still nothing. Pleeeease let it be today.
 
  • #169
@sophcorcoran
·
26s

Replying to
@sophcorcoran
Jury are now coming back in after giving in a note. It was a question about re-reading the witness statement of Sam Alford. Justice Lambert has read to the jury what Mr Alford said in his evidence at the time he gave it.
ooh interesting!
 
  • #170
  • #171
14:54
Jury asked for witness statement to be read out

The judge has been called back in to re-read the statment of Sam Alford at the request of the jury..

He was the man who lived in a house just next to Oak Road playing fields who heard a woman screaming and then saw a man hurrying away from the park.

Justice Lambert told the jury: “He [Sam Alford} says he recalled speaking to police about screams he had heard and the individual he had seen afterwards.

"The events were fresh when he gave his first statement and he was referring to something he heard on February 1, 2019.

"He woke up looked at his phone and said it was about a minute after he looked at his phone he heard a scream. He looked at his phone and it was 12.14am.

"His partner had texted him so he checked the text on his phone and he didn’t know what caused him to wake up. He said when he was awake a minute or two when he heard the screams.

"He said the screams were far away but loud enough to reach his window, around 150 metres away.

"He said ‘in the direction north from my bedroom.’ He said there was a track and a bit of woodland and the river running around the back.

"He was asked some questions about the screams and said the first two were intermittent with 30 seconds or ones minute between and wondered what it was.

"It was the second that got him thinking they had a pattern. He talked about the pattern of life living there teenagers drinking in the park and girls screaming behaviour he intended to ignore.

"He heard the screams again and couldn’t see anything. He said they were human from a woman and said they were enough to think ‘what could they be'.

He said 'they portrayed to me desperation and continued for three to five minutes, three to seven, I can only give you an estimation probably four to seven minutes. I went to the toilet and came back and looked out the window and they had stopped'.

He knelt on his bed and looked out the window. He said it was more he couldn’t see and after around three to five minutes he saw a man walking along the path. It was a man walking along in a manner he described as assertive, not looking behind and knowing where he wanted to go.

"He said he was heading straight forward before he left his vision. He was asked about a police statement he gave in February 4 and said he told the truth at the time.

"He said he had never seen the man running off. He described him as moving as if he wanted to get out of there.

"He had said he wanted to get out of the park and was walking with urgency and moving with a purpose to get off the park. As for the clothing being worn by the man he described joggers or jeans and some sort of hooded jacket.”

Libby Squire murder trial updates as jury out for fourth day

The jury may be struggling with timing issues JMO
 
  • #172
  • #173
walking along in a manner he described as assertive, not looking behind and knowing where he wanted to go ....
He described him as moving as if he wanted to get out of there ....
he wanted to get out of the park and was walking with urgency and moving with a purpose to get off the park ....
To me this sounds like someone who is in a hurry but doesn't want to draw attention to himself.
 
  • #174
God this is agonising, 3pm on day 4 and still nothing. Pleeeease let it be today.

It is and that’s just us. I keep thinking about what her poor parents must be going through.
 
  • #175
It still doesn't affect the law. That is what counts here.

But if there's a stubborn jury member, as we have members here who go against the grain (as is their perogative) then it doesn't matter what is 'the law' .

Let's hope that this is not the case! Let's hope it's not just A jury member holding up the verdict. Let's hope that it's all just being thorough and wanting desperately to get it right for Libby and her loved ones.
 
  • #176
Has anyone in this group ever been in a Jury? I know you can't discuss case details but I wondered if anyone had been in the situation above, before?

Nothing as serious as this...but I have been on a jury with two cases. And it's so very difficult in that room when there's doubt or so many with different opinions. And it's obvious they aren't in agreement . It's a daunting decision to pass judgement on someone. Especially in that situation. IMO
 
  • #177
I said before, if I were on the jury I would be uneasy about SA's version and timings, and how it differs timewise from the later alleged cries heard by the other two witnesses which the defence placed credence on and the prosecution dismissed. That's me on the jury there sending notes!
 
  • #178
To me this sounds like someone who is in a hurry but doesn't want to draw attention to himself.

To me, walking also suggests that he was certain that she was incapacitated.
 
  • #179
  • #180
I have sat on a Jury in 2 cases.

One was decided quickly not guilty.
The other one took much more time, questions asked of the judge etc.
Evidence was all circumstantial, but a unanimous guilty verdict was eventually returned.
Cases were both far less serious than this.

It was many many years ago now but it was very difficult from memory and felt like a huge responsibility, the jurors in this case have an unenviable job to do. IMO
 
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