Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #10 *ARREST*

[Joolz1975]

Leaving nobular deposits was the other thing, Joolz.

How could I forget that one!!

 

[Joolz1975]

They have to be referring to PR. I am trying to remember if LE ever actually said his full name back when he was being held in suspicion of connection to the abduction of Libby...it might have been the press who leaked the name. So, LE may simply be tight-lipped to avoid any possibility that PR could claim defamation or some other legal loophole?

Yes it was the press I think.

Police didn't mention him by name until he was charged with the other offences on the Sunday night if I remember right.

Can't see I agree with the media doing that to be honest.

They do it regular these days and it's really not fair if someone was to be innocent.

 

[Inspecthernightly]

Given we're now pretty certain Libby lived at 32, and knowing that 32 has a back garden gate leading to a shared alley with Heathcote, could the witness reports of the scream/banging gate be more pertinent?

Here's the map (32 in centre with conservatory) and witness statement:

Google Maps

@12.30
The concerned mum of two, who lives in nearby Heathcote Street near where it joins Wellesley Avenue, said: “We did hear screaming at 12.30 on Thursday night. “I was just in bed reading. We do get a lot of students who live in the road that Libby lives in who use this road as a cut through. “They go past screaming, shouting and singing. It’s not unusual. “But this made us sit up. It sounded like someone being attacked. The scream sounded like it was coming from someone who was scared. “It was someone walking quite close past our house. It was just one female scream. “Then we heard other voices muttering very low, murmuring and then more screams and more male voices. “Then we heard the slamming of a door. It sounded like a wooden door or a garden gate. “It was just very odd,” added the woman, a Hull University graduate whose dad is a retired policeman. “We didn’t think about it again until the police came round knocking on everybody’s doors on Saturday,” she recalled. “We talked about it and remembered the scream and rang 101.”“It was really shrill and urgent. It made me sit up and think ‘Oh my God’.

Libby Squire's neighbour claims to have heard a woman’s "blood curdling" scream

Ive said all along the heathcote account is the key to all this but seems to be falling on death ears

 

[Sera]

No he's been charged with penis flashing, sex toy pinching and a few other things but not kidnap or abduction.

Imagine if he was found guilty and the judge actually read out his charges as willy waving, knicker nicking and women watching.

I'll go back to lurking now.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Ive said all along the heathcote account is the key to all this but seems to be falling on death ears

I think it got overtaken in the likeliness rankings by the park screams / running man as soon as the police got obsessed with the park. What I am trying to work out is whether there is room for both to have occurred, ie if the timings are slightly out.

Of course, there might have been loads of witness statements from various neighbours / motorists / pedestrians, but only the two we know about told the nice friendly reporters what they'd heard.

 

[Joolz1975]

Imagine if he was found guilty and the judge actually read out his charges as willy waving, knicker nicking and women watching.

I'll go back to lurking now.

Don't forget nobular deposits.

You still on sleuthing the JM thread??

 

[Inspecthernightly]

Thread #7 my post of Feb 16:

This is my scenario synopsis as the way I think it could possibly have gone on the night/morning of that fateful Thursday/Friday 2 weeks ago. Lot of 'possibles' as we don't know certain facts as not revealed, so bear with me.

I am basing this on LS living on Wellesley in one of the even numbered houses, and not an odd number, ie one that backs on to the Drain. I am still not sure if that has been confirmed by any means, the number? Have seen several options mentioned here. If it is this house, 32, below, then my theory might hold a little more water! If not, then I am not even close.

Check out this student property on Rightmove!

So, on that night the occupants are out to a party first before going on to the Welly. We know LS didn't seem to take a bag with her so she may either have not taken a key as she was travelling light (no phone either), or that as the occupants were all out together, and intending to return home together, she didn't really need one as one of the others was the 'designated house key holder' that night, perhaps having taken a bag with her.

As events transpired, LS left the club before the others and the key was forgotten about. Somewhere on the journey in the taxi she realised this fact. So when she arrives at Wellesley, knowing she can't get in, she doesn't bother going to door as she knows no one is home, instead heads down Wellesley, turns into Beresford and walks on down to Beverly intending to get a bus back to the Welly.

As she crosses over Beverly to the stop, she is caught in the headlights of Mr Grey Hair's car as he approaches, and notices the obviously worst for wear young woman. Someone said on here that she fell on the ground although we have no proof of that, but that might have alerted her to his attention: she falls, it's icy, it is below freezing and she has no gloves and is wearing no tights. If she did fall, she would have hurt and possibly grazed or cut her leg and hands, so she may have started crying as witnessed being 'distressed'. Or, she may have got to stop, and found either the last bus had gone, or that she had no money as had used last she had on the taxi, and because she didn't have her phone either, she couldn't use contactless payment. So she starts crying as cold and drunk and doesn't know what to do - then seen by Mr Grey Hair.

At some point after that, either she decides to head back to Wellesley or she is spotted either by PR or whomever is the man on the Haworth Street CCTV.

The first scenario. She staggers back across Beverly Road and back down Beresford where at some point she is seen by a predator on the loose who follows her.

As she gets to the junction where Beresford meets Heathcote, she turns left, and then veers right into the pedestrian only pathway that cuts through to Wellesley. Remember the woman in the house on Heathcote who heard the screams (I shall return to her shortly) said the street was used as a cut through:

"We do get a lot of students who live in the road that Libby lives in who use this road as a cut through."

I think she may have meant this pathway, particulaly if she lives in one of the houses closest to it.

Halfway on the left of this pathway there is a short alley that backs onto the end row of houses on Wellesley as mentioned above. If LS lives at 32, you will see from pic in the link there is a gate to this alley from the garden (possibly same with adjacent houses?)

Back to the Heathcote woman. If she lives in one of the houses that also backs on to the alley from the other side, I wonder if her bedroom is at the back of the house? It is more usual for bedrooms to be at the back, although admittedly with some that are in multi-occupancy I appreciate they can sometimes be at front. But let's for argument sake say her bedroom was at back of house, I wonder if the screams and noises she heard were in fact emanating from this alley and not from Heathcote Street itself?

Back to LS who has turned onto this alley from the pathway. She has remembered that they sometimes use the back gate entrance as it is not locked (just hypothesising here) and she thinks she'll get in that way. As she is here, she is caught by the one who has followed her. So what the woman in Heathcote heard is her scream, the voices and the bang of the garden gate as she is perhaps pulled sharply back from it whilst she has hold of by the attacker. Alternate scene, she is not followed but someone is already lurking here who she encounters and same scenario. This could be random or someone who lives in one of adjoining houses - and gate slam may be pulling her inside their own (I don't know if police have searched all gardens and houses in that section?)

In the second scenario, PR or car guy sees her on bench and asks does she want a cab, he is a mini cab. She may be crying and says she doesn't have any money, he says never mind, he will take her, his car is just around corner, come with him. She does that.

If PR, if what sister says is correct and he is well meaning on this occasion, he drives her back to Wellesley, good deed done, and she gets out and off he goes. LS turns into the same pathway to cut around to the back garden gate, but approaches from the Wellesley end - and same fate befalls her as above.

If PR as not Mr Nice Guy, he drives her back to Wellesley, she gets out. He looks around, road is clear no one around, house lights along street all off, he spots his chance, gets out of car and follows her down the path, to alley and attacks her there. He could then drag her the short distance to his waiting car.

I am afraid I draw a blank as to what happens after that. If not PR or someone who drove her there, then I think she could be in one of the sheds or houses that back on to alley. If taken by someone with car, then...who knows.

Feb 16, 2019

Shes on the wrong side of bev road to get a bus back to welly

 

[Joolz1975]

I think it got overtaken in the likeliness rankings by the park screams / running man as soon as the police got obsessed with the park. What I am trying to work out is whether there is room for both to have occurred, ie if the timings are slightly out.

Of course, there might have been loads of witness statements from various neighbours / motorists / pedestrians, but only the two we know about told the nice friendly reporters what they'd heard.

Don't like it when witnesses speak to the media.

I just worry about the reliability and the motives for telling the press.

If I'd heard either of those screams I'd have.

A. Gone to inspect myself (I'm nosey wouldn't be able to help myself).

B. Phoned 101 straightaway.

Not wait till the police come knocking,..still not tell them...then ring 101 later.

By that point they have seen news reports about timings etc...and could convince themselves that what they heard was at a different time to what It really was and imagined the noise to be worse than it was.

 

[Newthoughts]

They have to be referring to PR. I am trying to remember if LE ever actually said his full name back when he was being held in suspicion of connection to the abduction of Libby...it might have been the press who leaked the name. So, LE may simply be tight-lipped to avoid any possibility that PR could claim defamation or some other legal loophole?

It was the press that named him initially and sought out his family in Poland getting the quotes from his mum and sister about him finding a crying girl.

 

[Newthoughts]

I've been thinking about the family a lot today.

It must heart wrenching having to think of returning to some sort of normality. Go back to work, start doing 'normal' things and try to support the rest of there young children through this wile there first born is still missing.

My heart genuinely aches for them.

I cannot stop thinking of them and their beautiful first born baby. Clever daughter who they said was caring and kind and loved reading. Everything they do now will be tainted with her not being there to see it. I can't see how you ever recover. Whoever did this didn't only steal her life from her he's destroyed theirs and her friends who will always feel guilty even tho they did nothing wrong.

Another thought is now how important it will be to get forensic or clear evidence. At the moment her family still have untainted memories of her but if a case has to be built on circumstantial evidence he will destroy those with some stupid defence of her coming on to him something. Drag her life through the mud. Like Belfield did to the Dowlers.

 

[Eyes Wide Open]

Okay many thanks

Have googled this news as well and gleaned that a Vasile Dumitru of Wellesley Ave near Beverley Rd was charged on 24/1/19 with raping a woman in a skatepark at Hessle near A63 on 14/1/19. His name sounds distinctly Romanian.

 

[Newthoughts]

I think it got overtaken in the likeliness rankings by the park screams / running man as soon as the police got obsessed with the park. What I am trying to work out is whether there is room for both to have occurred, ie if the timings are slightly out.

Of course, there might have been loads of witness statements from various neighbours / motorists / pedestrians, but only the two we know about told the nice friendly reporters what they'd heard.

I'm sure other people have come forward and I'm sure others have been told to keep quiet. A shopkeeper said the police had asked for all there CCTV and I knew early on they asked for dashcam footage.

 

[Newthoughts]

Shes on the wrong side of bev road to get a bus back to welly

I honestly think she was going to wait for her friends to come home. If she'd been sober I think the safest place would have been the University library. Warm, CCTV, security guards and people.

 

[Audiohoney]

Ive said all along the heathcote account is the key to all this but seems to be falling on death ears

I’ve had both sets of screams in mind throughout, I guess I fail to give either 100% authenticity because why on earth would you not report that / investigate it / look outside at the time? If the screams were as dramatic as the witnesses report ‘blood curdling’ ‘shot up in bed’ etc, surely you’d do more than just nod off again. Especially if it went on for 15mins.

Then there was the suggestion of foxes, which to me seemed ridiculous .. until I heard it for myself on one of Strontiums pitch black bike rides. Eerie.

Even if we’re to assume the witness was too scared to investigate, but not scared enough to warrant reporting on the night .. when police subsequently knock on your door asking you to think back a couple of nights, did you see or hear anything suspicious? If those screams had been so terrifying would you not recall them right away? Instead it sounds as though she’s said ‘no officer’, then a couple of hours later she’s thought oooh yes well there was that blood curdling scream. I’d better ring 101.

The mind can create all kinds of imaginary scenarios when presented with half a story. I run past a pond in a park every morning. There’s a bench opposite. I never used to think anything of that bit of my run, now I look at the reeds and muddy banks and I imagine all sorts (that’ll teach me for reading sleuth forums )

Perhaps she did hear something outside that night - she said she often heard students being rowdy on their way home - but built this up in her mind to be more dramatic once she found out what might have happened - sort of creating her own picture?

I guess that’s why I’ve not focused on those reports too much.

Are there more reports we don’t know about? Because surely more than one home would hear such terrified screams? There are lots of properties in a relatively small space along LS road.

I’ve said it before, but I’ll add it here again, I’m amazed the press don’t have more interviews with PRs family, friends, neighbours, work colleagues, boss, brothers best friends uncle! Usually the media are keen to build a story around someones demeanour. It’s oddly quiet. I wonder if much more is being said on Polish forums and in Polish press? Any Polish sleuthers seeing reports we’re missing?

 

[Newthoughts]

Have googled this news as well and gleaned that a Vasile Dumitru of Wellesley Ave near Beverley Rd was charged on 24/1/19 with raping a woman in a skatepark at Hessle near A63 on 14/1/19. His name sounds distinctly Romanian.

I'm hoping he was in a prison on remand at the point Libby went missing.

 

[Joolz1975]

I’ve had both sets of screams in mind throughout, I guess I fail to give either 100% authenticity because why on earth would you not report that / investigate it / look outside at the time? If the screams were as dramatic as the witnesses report ‘blood curdling’ ‘shot up in bed’ etc, surely you’d do more than just nod off again. Especially if it went on for 15mins.

Then there was the suggestion of foxes, which to me seemed ridiculous .. until I heard it for myself on one of Strontiums pitch black bike rides. Eerie.

Even if we’re to assume the witness was too scared to investigate, but not scared enough to warrant reporting on the night .. when police subsequently knock on your door asking you to think back a couple of nights, did you see or hear anything suspicious? If those screams had been so terrifying would you not recall them right away? Instead it sounds as though she’s said ‘no officer’, then a couple of hours later she’s thought oooh yes well there was that blood curdling scream. I’d better ring 101.

The mind can create all kinds of imaginary scenarios when presented with half a story. I run past a pond in a park every morning. There’s a bench opposite. I never used to think anything of that bit of my run, now I look at the reeds and muddy banks and I imagine all sorts (that’ll teach me for reading sleuth forums )

Perhaps she did hear something outside that night - she said she often heard students being rowdy on their way home - but built this up in her mind to be more dramatic once she found out what might have happened - sort of creating her own picture?

I guess that’s why I’ve not focused on those reports too much.

Are there more reports we don’t know about? Because surely more than one home would hear such terrified screams? There are lots of properties in a relatively small space along LS road.

I’ve said it before, but I’ll add it here again, I’m amazed the press don’t have more interviews with PRs family, friends, neighbours, work colleagues, boss, brothers best friends uncle! Usually the media are keen to build a story around someones demeanour. It’s oddly quiet. I wonder if much more is being said on Polish forums and in Polish press? Any Polish sleuthers seeing reports we’re missing?

I tried to say the same about the screams but my post wasn't as eloquent as your post.

 

[Mollie123]

I cannot stop thinking of them and their beautiful first born baby. Clever daughter who they said was caring and kind and loved reading. Everything they do now will be tainted with her not being there to see it. I can't see how you ever recover. Whoever did this didn't only steal her life from her he's destroyed theirs and her friends who will always feel guilty even tho they did nothing wrong.

Another thought is now how important it will be to get forensic or clear evidence. At the moment her family still have untainted memories of her but if a case has to be built on circumstantial evidence he will destroy those with some stupid defence of her coming on to him something. Drag her life through the mud. Like Belfield did to the Dowlers.

 

[Cherwell]

I’ve said it before, but I’ll add it here again, I’m amazed the press don’t have more interviews with PRs family, friends, neighbours, work colleagues, boss, brothers best friends uncle! Usually the media are keen to build a story around someones demeanour. It’s oddly quiet. I wonder if much more is being said on Polish forums and in Polish press? Any Polish sleuthers seeing reports we’re missing?

He's been charged with a number of offences which are now sub judice, so none of them may be discussed in the media. So what they can say about him is restricted - they can't mention any of the juicy stuff.

 

[Newthoughts]

I’ve had both sets of screams in mind throughout, I guess I fail to give either 100% authenticity because why on earth would you not report that / investigate it / look outside at the time? If the screams were as dramatic as the witnesses report ‘blood curdling’ ‘shot up in bed’ etc, surely you’d do more than just nod off again. Especially if it went on for 15mins.

Then there was the suggestion of foxes, which to me seemed ridiculous .. until I heard it for myself on one of Strontiums pitch black bike rides. Eerie.

Even if we’re to assume the witness was too scared to investigate, but not scared enough to warrant reporting on the night .. when police subsequently knock on your door asking you to think back a couple of nights, did you see or hear anything suspicious? If those screams had been so terrifying would you not recall them right away? Instead it sounds as though she’s said ‘no officer’, then a couple of hours later she’s thought oooh yes well there was that blood curdling scream. I’d better ring 101.

The mind can create all kinds of imaginary scenarios when presented with half a story. I run past a pond in a park every morning. There’s a bench opposite. I never used to think anything of that bit of my run, now I look at the reeds and muddy banks and I imagine all sorts (that’ll teach me for reading sleuth forums )

Perhaps she did hear something outside that night - she said she often heard students being rowdy on their way home - but built this up in her mind to be more dramatic once she found out what might have happened - sort of creating her own picture?

I guess that’s why I’ve not focused on those reports too much.

Are there more reports we don’t know about? Because surely more than one home would hear such terrified screams? There are lots of properties in a relatively small space along LS road.

I’ve said it before, but I’ll add it here again, I’m amazed the press don’t have more interviews with PRs family, friends, neighbours, work colleagues, boss, brothers best friends uncle! Usually the media are keen to build a story around someones demeanour. It’s oddly quiet. I wonder if much more is being said on Polish forums and in Polish press? Any Polish sleuthers seeing reports we’re missing?

I'm also dubious that you wouldn't report screams earlier if they sounded different to the norm. Everyone has a mobile these days. I would have thought more than one household would have heard them as well. I'm used to the sound of pub goers returning home but did once report what I felt was a suspicious scream. It didn't take long, the police said they'd check and I went back to sleep.

The press were all over PRs family and friends at first. Comments from sister and mother where they as good as said he'd admitted to seeing and interacting with Libby. And comments from friends about how nice he was.

Whether they're more cautious following leveson, or the police have specifically asked for a blackout or his friends are getting flak and avoiding the press. Especially given the nature of the charges that have been brought.

 

[Audiohoney]

I tried to say the same about the screams but my post wasn't as eloquent as your post.

It’s very kind of you to say eloquent sometimes I feel I’m being a bit chatty and waffley!!! But yes, I really feel that if those screams were startling, unusual, dramatic and significant, surely they’d spring straight to mind when the police come knocking asking about anything out of place that night?

I don’t know what to think anymore. I do believe it’s LS on spider cam, I feel he’s helping her in to the car. Not forcing her, just guiding somebody drunk to sit down. But like many others, my views change each time I watch it. The story they’ve built from there I guess depends a great deal on what additional cctv the police have seen.

It’s almost a month now. So sad.