Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #11 *ARREST*

[Quintet]

There is a good reason that the Police were so keen to find the 4 people highlighted in the Feb 19th CCTV.

“Were” Should I read that as they have been all found/come forward or the good reason at that time is no longer relevant? Or neither!? Please don’t just say “yes” Master Chester! Ha

 

[ly502]

Police are doing this to keep him in custody, a ‘drip drip’ effect to keep him inside while they search for Libby’s body, as each court case comes up they will add new charges until Libby found imho

100% agreed! This is kind of what I expected...they would come up with something just prior to his March 11th hearing - and I'm glad it turned out to be true...

 

[Newthoughts]

Does anybody know English court procedure well enough to know if these 7 additional offences are referred up to the crown court tomorrow, how likely they are to be considered at the Monday 11th hearing?

It's a new magistrates hearing for new charges so I'm guessing it would require a new plea date.

 

[ly502]

Householders being at home does increase the seriousness in sentencing.

"
Factors indicating greater harm

• Theft of/damage to property causing a significant degree of loss to the victim (whether economic, sentimental or personal value)
• Soiling, ransacking or vandalism of property
• Occupier at home (or returns home) while offender present
• Trauma to the victim, beyond the normal inevitable consequence of intrusion and theft
• Violence used or threatened against victim
• Context of general public disorder

Thank you...I had been wondering, and some others on here too, whether the emotional effect on the victims would be considered - and not just the value of property, etc.

 

[bos]

It's a new magistrates hearing for new charges so I'm guessing it would require a new plea date.

That’s what I suspected and that given the offences are similar/more of them, the precedent has been set that he is kept on remand until then even if he pleads guilty Monday and is eligible for a community order or suspended sentence.

 

[Quintet]

And also why they are charging him with outraging public decency rather than exposure (with masturbation) causing increased fear and distress?

Is it all to do with proving that the perpetrator wanted to be seen and therefore outraging public decency is easier to prove in that any reasonable member of the public would be outraged?

The exposure charge is contrary to the Sexual Offences Act (section 66) with a requirement to be added to the sex offenders register; is it because the charges include voyeurism which also require registering as a sex offender ?

I guess it concerns me that any sexual motivation angle may be downplayed

I did wonder when I read the 26th December offence, which was subsequently omitted, that the young ladies statement that they saw a man with his manhood out in an alleyway, did not necessarily mean he had it out to either show them it nor fiddle with it, that the owner of said manhood could have stated he was just having a pee!

 

[lilmissgeegee]

Does anybody know English court procedure well enough to know if these 7 additional offences are referred up to the crown court tomorrow, how likely they are to be considered at the Monday 11th hearing?

Likely the hearimg on the 11th will be adjounred for the new offences to catch up and will all be heard together

 

[Newthoughts]

I did wonder when I read the 26th December offence, which was subsequently omitted, that the young ladies statement that they saw a man with his manhood out in an alleyway, did not necessarily mean he had it out to either show them it nor fiddle with it, that the owner of said manhood could have stated he was just having a pee!

I think it's quite a clear difference. Having seen flashers (they used to be quite common) and having accidently passed men having a wee. To put it delicately, angle and way of holding and where the person is looking and how. And if course a flow of urine / puddle. One is very scary, the other embarrassing

 

[Vermont24]

If he was having a wee, he was doing it near her front window.

 

[Quintet]

I think it's quite a clear difference. Having seen flashers (they used to be quite common) and having accidently passed men having a wee. To put it delicately, angle and way of holding and where the person is looking and v how. One is very scary, the other embarrassing

“We were walking back from the car and he was just stood in a dark corner holding his penis. I didn’t want to look because he was scaring me but I saw him in the corner of my eye.”

My point I was trying to make was that could the police make a conviction stick on the statement they had been given?

 

[Quintet]

If he was having a wee, he was doing it near her front window.

No, it was in a dark corner. He then followed them and looked thru their window is what was stated.

 

[Vermont24]

No, it was in a dark corner. He then followed them and looked thru their window is what was stated.

The whole terrace is basically a dark corner at night - it's badly lit, something we have been trying to rectify for a long time.

Google Maps

As soon as you cross that open courtyard-like area there's an alleyway which runs behind the houses on the main street, and then behind either side of the terrace itself. I suspect he was stood in the entrance to that. These alleys are all connected behind the street. Some are gated, but many aren't.

 

[Quintet]

The whole terrace is basically a dark corner at night - it's badly lit, something we have been trying to rectify for a long time.

Google Maps

As soon as you cross that open courtyard-like area there's an alleyway which runs behind the houses on the main street. I suspect he was stood in the entrance to that.

Thanks!

It’s not the norm for a flasher to flash where he cannot be seen, defeating the object I would have thought, unless they’ve changed of late. It used to be all about the shock factor! Sounds like he got the shock too when they started chasing him down the road!

 

[Vermont24]

Thanks!

It’s not the norm for a flasher to flash where he cannot be seen, defeating the object I would have thought, unless they’ve changed of late. It used to be all about the shock factor! Sounds like he got the shock when they started chasing him down the road!

I'm also wondering if any of the flashings which took place during the summer will be attributed to him. On one occasion the victim had reported it to our community SM group within a minute or two. I ran straight out to the location to try and get ahold of the person described, but he was nowhere to be seen.

 

[ly502]

I'm also wondering if any of the flashings which took place during the summer will be attributed to him. On one occasion the victim had reported it to our community SM group within a minute or two. I ran straight out to the location to try and get ahold of the person described, but he was nowhere to be seen.

Didn't the most recent charges include the date range of 2017-2019?

 

[Vermont24]

Didn't the most recent charges include the date range of 2017-2019?

Yeah. Both sets of charges cover the same date range of 2017-19.

 

[Quintet]

I'm also wondering if any of the flashings which took place during the summer will be attributed to him. On one occasion the victim had reported it to our community SM group within a minute or two. I ran straight out to the location to try and get ahold of the person described, but he was nowhere to be seen.

I think it’s a good possibility, I’m sure he’s done a great deal more than has been suggested so far. There are many violence & sexual cases outstanding in the area around where he has already been charged. Whether the police are able to convince a judge or jury, is my worry.

 

[ly502]

I think it’s a good possibility, I’m sure he’s done a great deal more than has been suggested so far. There are many violence & sexual cases outstanding in the area around where he has already been charged. Whether the police are able to convince a judge or jury, is my worry.

I have to believe that he was in possession of some pretty incriminating evidence - they took so much from his house. I don't know the whole psychology of this, but he must have held onto items as trophies, and they could have easily been hidden without the knowledge of his wife. With regard to charges related to behaviors??? eye-witness identification...I feel like they have strong evidence with all of these charges that are unrelated to LS.

 

[Happylappy101]

This might be a daft question but here goes

The police have new charges of burglary and receiving stolen good. If they had found a stack of stolen goods in his possession what would make them distinguish between ones they'd thought he had stolen and ones they thought someone else had stolen? Does that suggest they have the original thief already?

Another daft question. The new charges again include burglary. The last burglary charges were trespass rather then breaking in. Is is always the case if the police just say burglary? Or could that include breaking and entering.

Hello all, new here. I am a lawyer, I don’t specialise in criminal law but I have studied it for many years etc so I can hopefully shed some light on what isn’t quite so obvious.
For burglary, trespass is part of what we call the conduct element of the crime - the actus reus. Trespass must always be proven in a charge of burglary (among other elements, but I won’t go there now). Trespass takes on a different legal meaning, where breaking and entering (by force per say) is not part and parcel to trespassing. Trespassing is simply entering land which you don’t have permission to be on, if that makes sense. So in a nutshell, trespass will always be proven for a charge of burglary, but breaking in by force need not be. It will likely be a sentencing factor though.

 

[ly502]

Hello all, new here. I am a lawyer, I don’t specialise in criminal law but I have studied it for many years etc so I can hopefully shed some light on what isn’t quite so obvious.
For burglary, trespass is part of what we call the conduct element of the crime - the actus reus. Trespass must always be proved in a charge of burglary (among other elements, but I won’t go there now). Trespass takes on a different legal meaning, where breaking and entering (by force per say) is not part and parcel to trespassing. Trespassing is simply entering land which you don’t have permission to be on, if that makes sense. So in a nutshell, trespass will always be proven for a charge of burglary, but breaking in by force need not be. It will likely be a sentencing factor though.

You should be careful now that you have identified yourself! I'm sure a lot of questions will be coming up over the next week or so...unless you decide to retreat, you could be pretty busy as our "resident expert"!