GUILTY UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #11 *ARREST*

[Oulton]

If they didn’t have details for both then they must have strong evidence of contact with Libby to ask for 2 drivers to to come forward. Which would indicate to me they have either eye witness/CCTV evidence for gb (ruled out) and PR (ruled in). Do we know if PR came forward voluntarily or was he arrested? I wonder if gb inadvertently incriminated PR by what he saw. The car CCTV on Newland and Haw sightings are both key imo.

 

[jessie]

They take your details if you call in for sure.

So maybe GB tried to call 101, long wait to get an answer so he gave up? When Libby was reported missing they checked cctv and gave out a physical description of GB plus his specific car?

But that doesn't make sense does it? Checking cctv for a lone female on a busy Thursday night would have taken ages surely? Somehow plod/police must have had a good idea where she was seen. I really don't know, in fact this whole case raises so many questions for me as it goes along.

 

[Armchair_Defective]

I get that its the proof that they are struggling with.
I guess I went off on a tangent but my question was meant to be .. how can in 2019 a body just disappear with no forensic evidence? He is a petty criminal, he isn't a mastermind and I would think that you would have to be incredibly smart and also have the crime be premeditated to leave no forensic evidence. Especially in the dark.
*if he had moved her body from the park using his car then surely there would be dna/blood/scent etc which there doesn't seem to be.
*if she was left in the park then surely they would find something by now. I doubt in them cold, icy conditions that the water wouldn't have taken her far.

How can someone be smarter than forensics and have gotten away with it in 2019 under the circumstances of which it seems to have happened (he took her at 12.09 and drove her to the park, potentially then drove home until work the next morning, hense the small search area).

If she was alive and had been in his car, then what can they prove? There is also the chance that she was followed or forced to the park and then chucked in the water - that wouldn't leave much trace on him, especially if he got rid of his clothes.

I don't think he needs to be a mastermind. Prison is full of dumb people who got away with things..for a while... The idea that forensics is a kind of superior evidence to all others I don't think is right. As
other posters have said, they need a certain weight of evidence ( of all types) and maybe just haven't got there yet.

 

[Newthoughts]

And sorry to bring up grey beard - but if he really was concerned for her welfare surely he would have called 101 to alert them to a drunk vulnerable student out on her own in the cold, worse for wear? She must’ve been able to coherently tell him she was ok for him to be satisfied she was going to be alright? To then get in a stranger’s car seems odd. It only really leaves two options - she was under duress or she kind of somehow knew of PR, if only from casual recognition. Still a massive risk for a highly intelligent philosophy student.

I'm not sure what I'd do in grey beards situation. I'd hazard guess that she told him something to reassure him she was ok. The police asked him to come forward so I'm guessing he didn't call.

One possibility I'd considered is that on certain nights a late bus from the Welly stops at the bus stop opposite the bench. It wasn't running that night. I wondered if Libby (and possibly PR) thought it might be and that someone she knew might be on it.

A woman who says she'd been supporting Libby's mum said in MSM (Daily Mirror) that Libby's mum says she hadn't got her key and had gone to wait for friends. I did wonder if she'd said that because that is what Libby said to grey beard? Or whether it was just a guess. We won't know unless it goes to trial.

It could just be she told him she was ok. There's only so much you can do and calling 101 is s nightmare.

As for recognising PR - I can't see how. In his normal respectable guise as married man with kids he'd have been unnoticed by her. No reason to stand out. If she'd recognised him from his flashing she'd have run a mile. I guess he just looked harmless

 

[Mollie123]

Have just driven around the sites again. I've walked in the park, don't think me mad, I was hoping to 'feel' something, anything.
I cannot fathom.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

If she was alive and had been in his car, then what can they prove? There is also the chance that she was followed or forced to the park and then chucked in the water - that wouldn't leave much trace on him, especially if he got rid of his clothes.

I don't think he needs to be a mastermind. Prison is full of dumb people who got away with things..for a while... The idea that forensics is a kind of superior evidence to all others I don't think is right. As
other posters have said, they need a certain weight of evidence ( of all types) and maybe just haven't got there yet.

If as the sister says she was in his car, then her DNA will be in the car and on his clothing. He says - am assuming - he dropped her home. End of. Unless they have more, with no body still very flimsy right now. And depending where she is, the longer it goes without her being found, the more difficult it will be to determine cause of death and to apportion who the killer was.

 

[jessie]

What is the nearest CCTV to the park? Seems to me this is the big question as it must be the reason plod are investigating that site so much. Was the Haworth St car caught on CCTV close to the area those 4 figures were seen?

 

[Newthoughts]

If as the sister says she was in his car, then her DNA will be in the car and on his clothing. He says - am assuming - he dropped her home. End of. Unless they have more, with no body still very flimsy right now. And depending where she is, the longer it goes without her being found, the more difficult it will be to determine cause of death and to apportion who the killer was.

That's my fear. Milly Dowler wasn't found for 6 months - just remains. Levi Belfield got to put her parents through hell as defence.

The police need a body with forensic evidence soon. To protect Libby's parents from the further distress of some cruel defence lawyer dragging their daughters life through court if the police charge PR.

And to protect PR if he's innocent from a trial that will ruin his life.

 

[Vermont24]

What is the nearest CCTV to the park? Seems to me this is the big question as it must be the reason plod are investigating that site so much. Was the Haworth St car caught on CCTV close to the area those 4 figures were seen?

Nearest CCTV to the park, other than Croda on Oak Road, which isn't that close, is likely residential or the primary school on Beresford Avenue.

That said, some of the huts around the entrance to the park could have CCTV. If so, that's footage we absolutely won't see.

 

[jessie]

Nearest CCTV to the park, other than Croda on Oak Road, which isn't that close, is likely residential or the primary school on Beresford Avenue.

That said, some of the huts around the entrance to the park could have CCTV. If so, that's footage we absolutely won't see.

Thanks. Not close enough then?

EDIT - Just seen your ETA.
By huts are you referring to the buildings Strontium has videod? Can't be sure but don't think he saw any cameras on those.

 

[Cherwell]

Just a reminder of the police position re CCTV:

"While Humberside Police have made a number of appeals the only CCTV released by them has been of four people they would like to speak to after being seen in Oak Road shortly after Libby vanished

But Detective Superintendent Martin Smalley, the Senior Investigating Officer leading the investigation, insists footage will only be released if it could prove helpful.

He said: “I am aware of speculation and theories as to what may have happened to Libby. These will be considered and explored as part of the investigation.

“CCTV footage has formed a crucial part of the investigation so far, with detectives working non-stop and viewing hours of film to piece together Libby’s movements and thereafter the last sighting. We haven’t released the majority of this footage for operational reasons and to protect the integrity of the investigation."
Police explain why no CCTV of missing Libby Squire has been released

 

[Vermont24]

Thanks. Not close enough then?

EDIT - Just seen your ETA.
By huts are you referring to the buildings Strontium has videod? Can't be sure but don't think he saw any cameras on those.

I haven't seen @Strontium69's video, but that may well be the case.

 

[Oulton]

I'm not sure what I'd do in grey beards situation. I'd hazard guess that she told him something to reassure him she was ok. The police asked him to come forward so I'm guessing he didn't call.

One possibility I'd considered is that on certain nights a late bus from the Welly stops at the bus stop opposite the bench. It wasn't running that night. I wondered if Libby (and possibly PR) thought it might be and that someone she knew might be on it.

A woman who says she'd been supporting Libby's mum said in MSM (Daily Mirror) that Libby's mum says she hadn't got her key and had gone to wait for friends. I did wonder if she'd said that because that is what Libby said to grey beard? Or whether it was just a guess. We won't know unless it goes to trial.

It could just be she told him she was ok. There's only so much you can do and calling 101 is s nightmare.

As for recognising PR - I can't see how. In his normal respectable guise as married man with kids he'd have been unnoticed by her. No reason to stand out. If she'd recognised him from his flashing she'd have run a mile. I guess he just looked harmless

People don’t always run away. Some people stay calm and pretend they haven’t seen the flasher and try and calmly walk away.

 

[Z03]

If she was alive and had been in his car, then what can they prove? There is also the chance that she was followed or forced to the park and then chucked in the water - that wouldn't leave much trace on him, especially if he got rid of his clothes

I don't think he needs to be a mastermind. Prison is full of dumb people who got away with things..for a while... The idea that forensics is a kind of superior evidence to all others I don't think is right. As
other posters have said, they need a certain weight of evidence ( of all types) and maybe just haven't got there yet.

If he killed her in the park (which the police seem to think) then it would likely be bloody due to blunt trauma to the head which would be messy
Or strangulation which I believe would cause a lot of wounds to his hands, knees due to her fighting back. Forensics would usually be able to distinguish finger nail scratches from other scratches. I also believe that this would be evidence against him if he were to have sustained certain injuries.

Then there is the carrying of the body.
Dragging her would surely leave skin and hair on the floor (maybe blood)
Carrying her is more likely but how long could he carry her for comfortably and without being spotted by people or cctv..
I can certainly see why the search is small, I don't see though why she wouldn't have been found, not a significant trace.
If he had disposed of his clothes then surely that would go against him as well in court.
There would be too much circumstantial evidence.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

That's my fear. Milly Dowler wasn't found for 6 months - just remains. Levi Belfield got to put her parents through hell as defence.

The police need a body with forensic evidence soon. To protect Libby's parents from the further distress of some cruel defence lawyer dragging their daughters life through court if the police charge PR.

And to protect PR if he's innocent from a trial that will ruin his life.

And to protect PR if he's innocent from a trial that will ruin his life.

Well, this is it, isn't it. Everyone knows his name now and whether he is guilty of this or not, his name will be forever tainted. And let's not forget that he also pleaded not guilty to the pervy charges as well, and if his brief is up to his 30 years legal expertise, may well swing those too!

 

[JosieJo]

A clumsy petty criminal who is being charged left right and centre has potentially murdered and disposed of a body in a highly populated, cctv riddled area and left no forensic evidence, let alone a body.
Where is she?!
@the poster above.. msm said she was last seen at 12.09 at that bench where a man walked up to a woman and put her in a car, rushed around to his side and drive off incredibly fast (also at 12.09). That must have been the last sighting of her.
My theory as I said a few posts back is that they tracked the car to the park and then back to his house. That is the only plausible explanation to me as to why the search area is so small.
I think she is probably in the water but I am pretty confident that the police don't think this as they havent spent a lot of time searching under water. Perhaps experts of water/tides/weather have said that if she was in the water then she would only be in a small area and if she wasn't there then its unlikely that she has travelled further (at the time of the search).
I wish they was searching more for her.

I agree ..I do not think there is a lacking of CCTV I think they traced his car going towards the park then back home..and that's all where he went

 

[JosieJo]

If he killed her in the park (which the police seem to think) then it would likely be bloody due to blunt trauma to the head which would be messy
Or strangulation which I believe would cause a lot of wounds to his hands, knees due to her fighting back. Forensics would usually be able to distinguish finger nail scratches from other scratches. I also believe that this would be evidence against him if he were to have sustained certain injuries.

Then there is the carrying of the body.
Dragging her would surely leave skin and hair on the floor (maybe blood)
Carrying her is more likely but how long could he carry her for comfortably and without being spotted by people or cctv..
I can certainly see why the search is small, I don't see though why she wouldn't have been found, not a significant trace.
If he had disposed of his clothes then surely that would go against him as well in court.
There would be too much circumstantial evidence.

Imo it's a case of either being suffocated to silence or ran through the park down the slippy banks of the river in the dark...both scenarios could easily not leave forensics , the ground was frozen

 

[jessie]

Imo it's a case of either being suffocated to silence or ran through the park down the slippy banks of the river in the dark...both scenarios could easily not leave forensics , the ground was frozen

That scenario would have left traces though I think, even if only noticeable damage on the reeds surrounding the riverbank.
I just hope they (police) are continuing to investigating other eventualities.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Been busy elsewhere for 3 days, namely, watching the WS livestream of R Kelly counting his childsupport arrears out in loose change.

Over theorising abounds.

Simple case status:

IMO:

LS was sat on a bench. Then she wasnt.
Infact , LS has Disappeared.
Humberside Police Have strong evidence that leads them to believe PR involved in LS disappearance.
Probably terminally.
Evidence not compelling enough for CPS to charge, especially without a body.
Charges brought against PR on unrelated counts valid but also serve as ideal procrastination time. Not Guilty plea a Gift for LE.

Finis.

WS a great site but only when cases have gone cold and LE open up information to wider public scrutiny or public unhindered by ongoing criminal law processes and restrictions.
Or
When charges prosecuted and facts and evidence are publicly presented.

Outside of this, we are nothing other than a SM platform, albeit one with a slightly more articulate and considered user base. On the whole.

Genuine concerns, of residents of Hull, of the wider community, of people with a range of motivations and goodwill, are of course valid but ultimately at this stage our actions and discussions are futile in positively influencing the live investigation or outcome of it.

 

[JosieJo]

That scenario would have left traces though I think, even if only noticeable damage on the reeds surrounding the riverbank.
I just hope they (police) are continuing to investigating other eventualities.

I hope so too ..I just wonder if the ground being frozen did the police no favours

 

[Mollie123]

If he killed her in the park (which the police seem to think) then it would likely be bloody due to blunt trauma to the head which would be messy
Or strangulation which I believe would cause a lot of wounds to his hands, knees due to her fighting back. Forensics would usually be able to distinguish finger nail scratches from other scratches. I also believe that this would be evidence against him if he were to have sustained certain injuries.

Then there is the carrying of the body.
Dragging her would surely leave skin and hair on the floor (maybe blood)
Carrying her is more likely but how long could he carry her for comfortably and without being spotted by people or cctv..
I can certainly see why the search is small, I don't see though why she wouldn't have been found, not a significant trace.
If he had disposed of his clothes then surely that would go against him as well in court.
There would be too much circumstantial evidence.

The police think he killed her in the park? Where have you seen this, can you provide evidence?