Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

[Newthoughts]

Technically I guess there’s no rush to charge whilst he’s in custody. I guess they are just checking everything. Did you say they’d asked did anyone know her(ls) rather than him (pr).

Maybe he's claiming he dropped her off there because she knew someone?

 

[EricaAmbrose1]

Taken from the college of policing website;House-to-house enquiries
Planned enquiries
Investigators need to consider when house-to-house enquiries should begin. If they believe that a specific set of questions should be asked, it may be preferable to delay house-to-house until enough material is available to formulate questions properly. This will avoid officers having to revisit the same premises to ask additional questions.

As knowledge about an incident increases, enquiries can be more specific. They may even focus on locating single pieces of material such as sightings of a particular person or vehicle. In cases where investigators have specific material that they hope to locate, bespoke questionnaires can be left.

 

[EricaAmbrose1]

Officers going door to door don't seem to be leaving cards for residents who aren't home at the time of their visit. This questioning can't be that pivotal.

Agree.with you @Vermont24 It can't be that pivotal as you say.
I lifted this paragraph from the college of policing website.
'Some people may be reluctant to provide house-to-house officers with information when initially contacted. It is good practice to leave a leaflet at each address giving details of the investigation and contact telephone numbers. They can then communicate with investigators and pass on information when they are ready to do so.'

 

[JosieJo]

It sounds quite desperate in a way .. almost as if desperate to find anything that might vary from PRs version of events

 

[Skigh]

Perhaps they are getting ready to re interview PR and have gone through his previous statements and want to challenge him on certain things he told them.

 

[Woollybear]

If they're asking questions at the end of Beverley road that meets Clough road then I wonder Could it be linked to whatever they wanted the Croda CCTV witnesses for? Maybe they've come forward? If any of those 4 turned right they'd reach Beverley road - is that correct?

Which brings us right back to those 4 and that time frame between an hour and two and a half hours after Libby was last seen.

I don't think any of them are PR. I've always assumed they're linked to the police searches of Oak Road Park somehow but would getting to the Humber from that southernmost part of HU5 be possible? Is it near the quay that people have mentioned? Is there a way of getting to near the Deep without being seen .

Hello Newthoughts. Just skimming to catch up on the threads after some time spent in real life and this leapt out at me because nobody seems to have answered you.

Yes, it would be possible to get to the River Humber from the southernmost point of the HU5 post code district (or anywhere in Hull) but even if you started from there you would still have the same problem of A) finding somewhere along the waterfront of the River Humber where there is deep enough water close enough inshore for you to access it and B) doing so without featuring on CCTV. This applies to both St Andrew's Quay and The Deep. Especially the latter. Either way the perpetrator would have left a CCTV trail though the town centre. So I think it's a bit of a non-starter really.

I read the geographical extension of the door to door as being the police dotting the i's and crossing the t's just in case the perpetrator's defence is he left her in the park and had no further contact - then the police can at least eliminate the potential possibility of Libby wandering the streets after she had been on the playing fields. The fact that, as Vermont seems to state, it's only a token effort, seems to indicate to me that they are going through the motions.

Incidentally, board member @winterhills has come up with (in my opinion)by far the best and most plausible location for dumping straight into the Humber, (even though I poo-poohed the idea initially), which is out at Paull. Even this would have involved the perp in a long risky drive and a late return home though.

 

[Newthoughts]

Hello Newthoughts. Just skimming to catch up on the threads after some time spent in real life and this leapt out at me because nobody seems to have answered you.

Yes, it would be possible to get to the River Humber from the southernmost point of the HU5 post code district (or anywhere in Hull) but even if you started from there you would still have the same problem of A) finding somewhere along the waterfront of the River Humber where there is deep enough water close enough inshore for you to access it and B) doing so without featuring on CCTV. This applies to both St Andrew's Quay and The Deep. Especially the latter. Either way the perpetrator would have left a CCTV trail though the town centre. So I think it's a bit of a non-starter really.

I read the geographical extension of the door to door as being the police dotting the i's and crossing the t's just in case the perpetrator's defence is he left her in the park and had no further contact - then the police can at least eliminate the potential possibility of Libby wandering the streets after she had been on the playing fields. The fact that, as Vermont seems to state, it's only a token effort, seems to indicate to me that they are going through the motions.

Incidentally, board member @winterhills has come up with (in my opinion)by far the best and most plausible location for dumping straight into the Humber, (even though I poo-poohed the idea initially), which is out at Paull. Even this would have involved the perp in a long risky drive and a late return home though.

Thanks for that

 

[KING Charles]

Hello Newthoughts. Just skimming to catch up on the threads after some time spent in real life and this leapt out at me because nobody seems to have answered you.

Yes, it would be possible to get to the River Humber from the southernmost point of the HU5 post code district (or anywhere in Hull) but even if you started from there you would still have the same problem of A) finding somewhere along the waterfront of the River Humber where there is deep enough water close enough inshore for you to access it and B) doing so without featuring on CCTV. This applies to both St Andrew's Quay and The Deep. Especially the latter. Either way the perpetrator would have left a CCTV trail though the town centre. So I think it's a bit of a non-starter really.

I read the geographical extension of the door to door as being the police dotting the i's and crossing the t's just in case the perpetrator's defence is he left her in the park and had no further contact - then the police can at least eliminate the potential possibility of Libby wandering the streets after she had been on the playing fields. The fact that, as Vermont seems to state, it's only a token effort, seems to indicate to me that they are going through the motions.

Incidentally, board member @winterhills has come up with (in my opinion)by far the best and most plausible location for dumping straight into the Humber, (even though I poo-poohed the idea initially), which is out at Paull. Even this would have involved the perp in a long risky drive and a late return home though.

I like your idea of why LE may have been going door to door recently. I hadn’t looked at it from this point of view. Thank you!

 

[EricaAmbrose1]

Witnesses to crime are 'significantly less likely to trust justice system'
'witnesses to crimes find it difficult to contact the police about what they have seen and are further discouraged by the adversarial atmosphere of court hearings, at which they are given no support '

 

[EricaAmbrose1]

Advice for witnesses - North Yorkshire Police
Podted this srticle to balance the previouse statement so not to be negative.

 

[yoyo1]

I have never thought the other person was Libby. Though that might be wishful thinking on my part because of the time. Now we know she's not alive I just hope whatever happened, happened quickly. It doesn't look like the girl on the earlier CCTV from Welly.

I'm hoping there will charges soon. I can't see why they wouldn't have evidence. He took her - they seem very sure of that. Spidercam as well suggests that

They said potential homicide before the pm which is unusual - rather than unexplained. And that changed to homicide at the inquest. I can't see any story about a sex offender leaving her safe in the park or anywhere to be killed by someone else holding water with CPS.

I'm wondering is it PRs previous movements that are making it a more complicated case? A lot of charges in the run up to her disappearance suggesting an escalation perhaps? Perhaps charges they're investigating as showing a pattern leading up to her abduction that suggests intent perhaps?

Stuff on his laptop that's taken a while to plough through perhaps?

Or whether the PM suggests a different point of entry into the water?

My opinion, and only my opinion, is that PR is far more devious and dangerous than a simple opportunist. I still don't discount an accomplice completely though I think PR would probably have dropped them in it if there were

I think at this point we all just want justice for Libby.
My opinion is that PR was/is a reckless sexual maniac grown complacent on getting away with it for so long and just took the irresistable opportunity that occured that night, i agree hes quite clearly very dangerous , but i dont think hes excessively devious , more hes just riding out the apparent good fortune that hes had so far and holding his breath that the police dont secure sufficient compelling evidence to convict him.
It would be mindboggling if the justice system did have to just let someone widely considered guilty of such a despicable crime simply walk free. Hopefully that dosnt happen.

 

[Newthoughts]

I think at this point we all just want justice for Libby.
My opinion is that PR was/is a reckless sexual maniac grown complacent on getting away with it for so long and just took the irresistable opportunity that occured that night, i agree hes quite clearly very dangerous , but i dont think hes excessively devious , more hes just riding out the apparent good fortune that hes had so far and holding his breath that the police dont secure sufficient compelling evidence to convict him.
It would be mindboggling if the justice system did have to just let someone widely considered guilty of such a despicable crime simply walk free. Hopefully that dosnt happen.

I know it's got to be beyond all reasonable doubt but the police must have enough to make them sure it's him. They have her body. They have her getting into his car. They have no sightings of her alive after that. They've said homicide as well.

I can't believe the justice system would completely fail victims and risk future victims. I hope it's soon they charge him. For her family

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Wasn’t this the hammer, screwdriver and lipgloss?

Edit: Sorry - replied at same time as Vermont

A discarded lip gloss I can understand, but can't say ever come across a hammer and screwdriver just thrown away on a verge - unless discarded for criminal reasons.

 

[Skigh]

I can not believe PR would not have left some forensic evidence.
I just keep hoping that because he is locked up they can use the time to their advantage before charging.
But the longer it goes before charging him the more I worry that they might be missing the piece of evidence to charge him with murder.

 

[Newthoughts]

A discarded lip gloss I can understand, but can't say ever come across a hammer and screwdriver just thrown away on a verge - unless discarded for criminal reasons.

Three things found together and quoted together as part of an enquiry unrelated to Libby. Very strange mixture. Found close to the bench where she was last seen. Makes me wonder if they were PRs and if he'd been off on a repeat criminal visit somewhere when he saw Libby.

 

[Skigh]

I think they are connected to PR.But why he dumped them there I can not work out,was he carrying them in a pocket or a bag?
I know in the video clip of the items being found they used a dog.
Could the dog sniff the tools and track where they came from/last used or back to PR's car?

 

[kate2931]

I think at this point we all just want justice for Libby.
My opinion is that PR was/is a reckless sexual maniac grown complacent on getting away with it for so long and just took the irresistable opportunity that occured that night, i agree hes quite clearly very dangerous , but i dont think hes excessively devious , more hes just riding out the apparent good fortune that hes had so far and holding his breath that the police dont secure sufficient compelling evidence to convict him.
It would be mindboggling if the justice system did have to just let someone widely considered guilty of such a despicable crime simply walk free. Hopefully that dosnt happen.

I think you’re spot on & I completely agree with everything you’re saying. He seems to have had a great deal of luck on his side so far. I do think you need to be somewhat devious though to offend to the frequency & brazen manner in which he did. I think he’s the epitome of a sexual deviant, either stupidly confident he wouldn’t be caught (perhaps he wouldn’t have been for a while if he stuck to exposing & peeping - police funding issues) or in self destruct mode, unable to surpress his urges.

I have a feeling a decision to charge from the CPS will unfortunately come in manslaughter form, the interest to the public is high and even then I worry about what a jury may think once in court. I know LE is not in a rush, but investigations could still be carried out whilst waiting for trial. I know it could be argued that letting PR stew for now may result in a confession type deal but it makes no sense to keep Libby’s family in limbo. Which they will be. Those days between loosing a loved one and a funeral are like no man’s land, made further distressing in the manner which Libby’s life was cut tragically short. A funeral (& charges/trial) will not bring closure by any means, but it’s another hurdle a family must cross to begin the existence without their loved one.

I wonder if LE went to the CPS & asked for murder charges on what evidence they had. CPS said no (maybe offered manslaughter) you need more, LE are determined to try for murder, CPS have advised on what is needed & then come back to us. Perhaps we are in the last drive to get the most severe charge. But more than likely .. Best case manslaughter, worst case no charges at all ?

I hope for a murder charge each day and have done since Libby went missing.
Sad that the threads have gone quiet.

 

[Newthoughts]

I think you’re spot on & I completely agree with everything you’re saying. He seems to have had a great deal of luck on his side so far. I do think you need to be somewhat devious though to offend to the frequency & brazen manner in which he did. I think he’s the epitome of a sexual deviant, either stupidly confident he wouldn’t be caught (perhaps he wouldn’t have been for a while if he stuck to exposing & peeping - police funding issues) or in self destruct mode, unable to surpress his urges.

I have a feeling a decision to charge from the CPS will unfortunately come in manslaughter form, the interest to the public is high and even then I worry about what a jury may think once in court. I know LE is not in a rush, but investigations could still be carried out whilst waiting for trial. I know it could be argued that letting PR stew for now may result in a confession type deal but it makes no sense to keep Libby’s family in limbo. Which they will be. Those days between loosing a loved one and a funeral are like no man’s land, made further distressing in the manner which Libby’s life was cut tragically short. A funeral (& charges/trial) will not bring closure by any means, but it’s another hurdle a family must cross to begin the existence without their loved one.

I wonder if LE went to the CPS & asked for murder charges on what evidence they had. CPS said no (maybe offered manslaughter) you need more, LE are determined to try for murder, CPS have advised on what is needed & then come back to us. Perhaps we are in the last drive to get the most severe charge. But more than likely .. Best case manslaughter, worst case no charges at all ?

I hope for a murder charge each day and have done since Libby went missing.
Sad that the threads have gone quiet.

I can't see why manslaughter and not murder? There won't have been any emotional provocation. PR will have voluntarily taken Libby so it couldn't be an accidental killing.

 

[Skigh]

A great post reflecting many of my thoughts.

He is devious as I can not believe his wife knew what he was doing and his boss and friends described him positively as a loving family man.
A sexual deviant is like any other addict and that means he must be an accomplished liar and manipulator

What I do wonder is if he had the knowledge to completely cover his tracks as far as DNA on his
clothing went or where his phone was.
Did he smoke in the park and drop his ends?
If he did kill her in the park there must be some forensic evidence.
If as we all think,he was seen on Spiderman ,the police would know exactly what clothing he was wearing

They had his car and possessions from his house very early in the investigation so the chances of finding dna,plant and soil samples is high.

I think other evidence could be found from the PM on Libby's body,it is amazing what forensics can
reveal.
I wonder if the police are managing to explain as much as they can to Libby's family about what is happening to give them hope of a conviction.
I think letting him stew could be a good tactic.
I know of I am worried about something I want to talk.PR must be desperate to know what is happening and any updates .
Whether he is charged or not I believe a second independent PM is done within a month of the first and then the body can be released to the family.

Without new information threads often go quiet as there is not so much to discuss.

 

[kate2931]

I can't see why manslaughter and not murder? There won't have been any emotional provocation. PR will have voluntarily taken Libby so it couldn't be an accidental killing.

I’m just worried about a possible lack of evidence, the passage of time & yet no charges.
If there was clear evidence of murder, I’d have thought a charge would have come quickly after the post-mortem. These are just my concerns.
As I said before, I’m praying for a water tight murder charge.

Edited to clarify, that I’m worried they wont be able to make murder stick & that a voluntary manslaughter charge (maybe no obvious COD due to time in the water, but an indication she hadn’t drowned) may mean less culpability & therefore a lesser sentence.