Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

[cluciano63]

Police always investigate suspicious or unexplained deaths as a potential crime. They just don’t always say so in a specific way. But not all deaths are murders, or can be determined as such anyway. I think that is where they are here. Maybe cause of death was drowning...which will make proving murder very difficult indeed. Jmo

 

[Newthoughts]

Police always investigate suspicious or unexplained deaths as a potential crime. They just don’t always say so in a specific way. But not all deaths are murders, or can be determined as such anyway. I think that is where they are here. Maybe cause of death was drowning...which will make proving murder very difficult indeed. Jmo

They do always investigate deaths that are suspicious, I'd guess to ascertain whether they are murder, manslaughter, accidental or unexplained. But I'm sure 'suspicious' is the word they'd use in that case.

Homicide only covers murder and manslaughter. That is the word they used from the inquest onwards. That is the word they continue to use. My guess would be that that's because drowning - which could be homicide or could be accidental - was not the cause of death.

I can't see why they would use the word homicide for a death that could be an accident, no matter how unlikely an accident. Even if they were very sure certain Libby had been drowned by someone rather than accident I'm sure they would say suspicious death. They have to use language carefully.

 

[Newthoughts]

The circumstances surrounding her death may be enough for them to investigate it as a homicide..I would of thought just because it's a homicide investigation it does not have to be proven homicide before they "name it" so to speak ..its down to the courts in the end

IMO (although this has been discussed a lot I know) ...The key to this is the word "homicide" its rarely used in the UK..if they were sure someone had killed her it would be a murder investigation

Murder implies intent. Suspicious implies they aren't sure yet but it could be unlawful. Homicide covers unlawful killing. That's the only word they've used since her body was found

 

[JosieJo]

T

Police always investigate suspicious or unexplained deaths as a potential crime. They just don’t always say so in a specific way. But not all deaths are murders, or can be determined as such anyway. I think that is where they are here. Maybe cause of death was drowning...which will make proving murder very difficult indeed. Jmo

I very much agree ..just because it's a homicide investigation does not mean the police are sure it was homicide..its just how they are investigating the case ..usually based on the circumstances around a death ..not only a post mortem

I think it's very likely her PM has either not shown a cause of death ..or its shown drowning without any other indication of injury etc

 

[Newthoughts]

T


I very much agree ..just because it's a homicide investigation does not mean the police are sure it was homicide..its just how they are investigating the case ..usually based on the circumstances around a death ..not only a post mortem

I think it's very likely her PM has either not shown a cause of death ..or its shown drowning without any other indication of injury etc

It didn't start as Homicide tho. When she was first found the police said 'potential homicide'. At the inquest they changed that to Homicide. I don't think they'd use a word they'd have to then downgrade.

Why wouldn't they say they were treating her death as suspicious and continue to say that? That would cover abduction and allow them to move to homicide afterwards. Why go straight to a word that specifically means unlawfully killed?

That's what makes me think they must know that drowning was not the cause of death, something unknown was. Dead people don't get themselves into water. What that could be seems to be the issue.

 

[jamjim]

I have to agree, the police statement doesn't make it sound like there's much chance of an arrest any time soon does it

 

[bos]

Maybe this will make clearer that deaths that remain suspicious after forensic PM are investigated as possible homicide (though of course that can be ruled out as well as in)

 

[Skigh]

How many cases have there been with a recovered body and chief suspect where they have not managed to charge someone?

 

[bos]

How many cases have there been with a recovered body and chief suspect where they have not managed to charge someone?

Police can’t really publicise who they think is responsible until they have charged usually so difficult for members of the public to know

 

[JosieJo]

Maybe this will make clearer that deaths that remain suspicious after forensic PM are investigated as possible homicide (though of course that can be ruled out as well as in)

Exactly..just because it's a homicide investigation does not mean 100% a homicide occurred...its just how it's being investigated

 

[JosieJo]

Surely the circumstances around her disappearance..irrespective of a PM result would warrant a homicide investigation

 

[bos]

Surely the circumstances around her disappearance..irrespective of a PM result would warrant a homicide investigation

You’d think so but I guess because they couldn’t charge for abduction and there was the possibility that the PM could actually find death was due to natural causes e.g because of a blood clot/narrowing of arteries obstructing blood flow to heart or brain.

Edited to add: and that any reduced blood flow in combination with alcohol could have been responsible for out-of-character decisions.

 

[bos]

I think part of the problem is the terminology isn’t consistent throughout the professions from un natural death to suspicious death from the Coroner’s side and police naming the investigation into suspicious death which may be as a result of criminal activity, as homicide

 

[kate2931]

deflated & disheartened tonight ...

 

[motherofdaughters]

That made me cry as well. Not sure how they will ever recover

I wondered actually if it was to stop another shocking home art piece...
as well meaning as it was.

 

[Joolz1975]

Exactly..just because it's a homicide investigation does not mean 100% a homicide occurred...its just how it's being investigated

I'd agree with this.

Maybe by keeping it as a homicide investigation they can keep more officers on it and maybe it gives them more investigative tools they can utilise or something.

Purely a guess that though.

 

[Skigh]

I wondered actually if it was to stop another shocking home art piece...
as well meaning as it was.

I thought exactly the same thing.

 

[JosieJo]

I'd agree with this.

Maybe by keeping it as a homicide investigation they can keep more officers on it and maybe it gives them more investigative tools they can utilise or something.

Purely a guess that though.

Yes that makes sense aswell as it putting a little fear into any suspect

It makes sense that if there is a strong possibility it is homicide it should be investigated as such

 

[cluciano63]

I do not think we can assume what the autopsy has proven or not proven. The latest statement from police indicates uncertainty in some way...whether or not a crime has been committed, in my opinion. That is what they need to be able to prove to proceed.

 

[JosieJo]

<modsnipped>

Although any theory is possible at the moment..personally I do not feel there is enough evidence to tell us what happened at all ..there is no real evidence in the public domain confirmed

Yes I feel it's very likely PR picked her up ..other than that we know very little other than the police centered their investigation around the park

Imo it's very unlikely she went to the area to meet him