Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #15 *ARREST*

[EricaAmbrose1]

I
found today’s update sad but reassuring.
Still awaiting results at this stage must mean LE are exhausting every possible testing technique currently available, their thoroughness is commendable.
Still with heavy heart that Libby can’t be laid to rest yet. The acknowledgement of the Squire’s pain & understanding by LE is thoughtful and nice to read.

Could it be Carolyn Roberts is on the case? There was a poddible mention the latest news yesterday of experts and unprecedented. If do it's your good work Kate2941 for contacting her...

 

[EricaAmbrose1]

I feel it's a positive update, too. I was particularly struck by this bit: 'an unprecedented amount of work taking place behind the scenes' - reassurance that LE are still very actively working on the case, not just letting it lie until the court appearance.
There was talk earlier of a particular female specialist being approached for help (sorry, can't recall the details/name) - does anyone with a better memory than me think she may be included in the 'search specialists as well as experts in forensics and oceanography' referred to?

@Loobyloo
Kate2931 contacted Carolyn Roberts a water and enviroment consultant who has experience also in forensics .Carolyn has helped police enquiries in the past appearing on court as as an expert witness .The many people involved may perhaps need to be booked as it may take a lot of time to get them all together with their other commitments .Maybe this adds to the delay in finding the outcome .The word unprecedented with regards to this case is very interesting it could also be a posdible indication how difficult the task is to establish cause of death as many here have stated .

 

[Newthoughts]

@Loobyloo
Kate2931 contacted Carolyn Roberts a water and enviroment consultant who has experience also in forensics .Carolyn has helped police enquiries in the past appearing on court as as an expert witness .The many people involved may perhaps need to be booked as it may take a lot of time to get them all together with their other commitments .Maybe this adds to the delay in finding the outcome .The word unprecedented with regards to this case is very interesting it could also be a posdible indication how difficult the task is to establish cause of death as many here have stated .

Or to establish where she was taken, where she was left and when. It's still homicide and simple, opportunistic sex attacks gone wrong do not require unprecedented amounts of work.

 

[Newthoughts]

@Loobyloo
Kate2931 contacted Carolyn Roberts a water and enviroment consultant who has experience also in forensics .Carolyn has helped police enquiries in the past appearing on court as as an expert witness .The many people involved may perhaps need to be booked as it may take a lot of time to get them all together with their other commitments .Maybe this adds to the delay in finding the outcome .The word unprecedented with regards to this case is very interesting it could also be a posdible indication how difficult the task is to establish cause of death as many here have stated .

They refer to search experts specifically. That doesn't suggest they're looking for cause of death so much as place of death. To me anyway. Just my opinion

 

[Lyndaloo]

I agree Newthoughts. I just can’t shake off the feeling that Libby never entered the water on the night she was kidnapped. Perhaps she never entered the water until after PRs arrest? (Not that I’m implying PR wasn’t involved) I believe the police have a very good idea of what happened, but its a lot more complex than just an opportunist attack by PR. I really hope Justice can be done for Libby & her family but my biggest worry is that a trial may struggle to get a conviction due to the involvement of a number of other people.

 

[JosieJo]

Its very difficult to second guess what theory they are working on. It must be so frustrating for them if they do not have enough evidence to charge.
I'm still not convinced at the minute that they know what happened to her

 

[JosieJo]

"Due to operational reasons, the results of the post-mortem examination were not released at the time it was concluded"

This intrigues me ... what could they mean and what reasons would they not make the results public ?

Was it inconclusive?
Was The cause clear if so why withold it ?

Is their evidence so circumstantial that they need him a proven sex offender?

 

[Newthoughts]

"Due to operational reasons, the results of the post-mortem examination were not released at the time it was concluded"

This intrigues me ... what could they mean and what reasons would they not make the results public ?

Was it inconclusive?
Was The cause clear if so why withold it ?

Is their evidence so circumstantial that they need him a proven sex offender?

Or did the PM show something unusual? Something that required more of a follow up. They have not deviated from homicide.

 

[JosieJo]

Or did the PM show something unusual? Something that required more of a follow up. They have not deviated from homicide.

It's such a broad classification though which makes it all the more frustrating .. to be honest when you have an extremely vulnerable girl picked up and found dead whatever happened is pretty much going to be some variation of homicide

 

[cluciano63]

Its very difficult to second guess what theory they are working on. It must be so frustrating for them if they do not have enough evidence to charge.
I'm still not convinced at the minute that they know what happened to her

Me either. Clearly they are trying in every way to figure out how she died and if anyone else played a part. It is not a given that they will succeed at either, imo.

 

[cluciano63]

It's such a broad classification though which makes it all the more frustrating .. to be honest when you have an extremely vulnerable girl picked up and found dead whatever happened is pretty much going to be some variation of homicide

The many men found in water are generally accidental deaths.

 

[Loobyloo]

@Loobyloo
Kate2931 contacted Carolyn Roberts a water and enviroment consultant who has experience also in forensics .

Thanks - that's the name I was trying to remember.

 

[Newthoughts]

The many men found in water are generally accidental deaths.

I'd guess most deaths in water are accidental. But those deaths aren't of a vulnerable woman nowhere near water that's been picked up by an alleged sex offender.

Would you specifically state you were using oceanographers and search experts to simply determine a cause of death?

I think the reports we've heard of Libby's state suggest she couldn't have got far that night under her own steam. At very best she might have fallen into the river fleeing from PR as some have suggested.

I personally cannot understand how that would require the services of oceanographers and search experts. Nor can I understand how those particular specialists would be any use in determining cause of death?

The simple abduction and homicide of a young woman does not require unprecedented amounts of work. I think the early searches would have found her body in that scenario. She was reported missing very early on after all.

So my opinion is still that PR had an accomplice and I'm sure they'd planned to do something horrible if a chance ever arose. Is it possible his earlier crimes give clues to who that could be?

 

[katydid23]

I have followed this case from the beginning, but every time I check in, I am more confused than before.
So the cab driver was arrested, but he was not charged yet with the assault? Or is he not the perp?

I have no idea anymore...sigh

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I'd guess most deaths in water are accidental. But those deaths aren't of a vulnerable woman nowhere near water that's been picked up by an alleged sex offender.

Would you specifically state you were using oceanographers and search experts to simply determine a cause of death?

I think the reports we've heard of Libby's state suggest she couldn't have got far that night under her own steam. At very best she might have fallen into the river fleeing from PR as some have suggested.

I personally cannot understand how that would require the services of oceanographers and search experts. Nor can I understand how those particular specialists would be any use in determining cause of death?

The simple abduction and homicide of a young woman does not require unprecedented amounts of work. I think the early searches would have found her body in that scenario. She was reported missing very early on after all.

So my opinion is still that PR had an accomplice and I'm sure they'd planned to do something horrible if a chance ever arose. Is it possible his earlier crimes give clues to who that could be?

Agree with your point of view, but they need evidence. Maybe the oceanographer or other specialists are helping to define exactly where she went in to the water in the hopes it will prove accidental death is not a credible possibility?

 

[JosieJo]

I'd guess most deaths in water are accidental. But those deaths aren't of a vulnerable woman nowhere near water that's been picked up by an alleged sex offender.

Would you specifically state you were using oceanographers and search experts to simply determine a cause of death?

I think the reports we've heard of Libby's state suggest she couldn't have got far that night under her own steam. At very best she might have fallen into the river fleeing from PR as some have suggested.

I personally cannot understand how that would require the services of oceanographers and search experts. Nor can I understand how those particular specialists would be any use in determining cause of death?

The simple abduction and homicide of a young woman does not require unprecedented amounts of work. I think the early searches would have found her body in that scenario. She was reported missing very early on after all.

So my opinion is still that PR had an accomplice and I'm sure they'd planned to do something horrible if a chance ever arose. Is it possible his earlier crimes give clues to who that could be?

There are many reasons why the amount of work is so vast...the most likely being imo that the circumstances are unclear ...if it was fairly clear a suspect would have been charged by now

Oceanographers could be used for various reasons ..and probably a lot we may not even think of
For example yes its possible they may consider where she entered in the water ..though I think this less likely as we have never seen an interest in any other area other than the park
But could also be being used to be an expert witness to show she actually could have entered the river at the park ...imo a defence lawyer may do exactly as we did ...how is it possible she went into the water at the park and was not seen until she was in the main estuary
I think ...at the moment anyway their evidence may be circumstantial and the reason the work is so vast is they need anything and everything they can to build a case while waiting on him being confirmed a sex offender.

 

[Newthoughts]

maybe he got a thrill from the fact he remained un-caught in the area. To me it seems arrogant as if he liked the fact he has that power over women in the area. Could also be his behaviour escalating and him feeling invincible?

I can't really get into the mind of a flasher and I can only offer anecdotes from friends - but I think they were unusual places to flash unless he knew there were young women there.

If it were me, and based on totally unscientific anecdotes, I'd go to bus stops, train stations or - and this would be very near - closer to the actual halls of residence. They're not that far away. Wouldn't a random flasher target those areas?

Admittedly PR did offend in an area with a high student population but he still seemed to know what he was looking for. Maybe somehow knowing what he was looking for was the reason he stayed local. Could he have had friends that were maintenance men perhaps?

 

[Newthoughts]

There are many reasons why the amount of work is so vast...the most likely being imo that the circumstances are unclear ...if it was fairly clear a suspect would have been charged by now

Oceanographers could be used for various reasons ..and probably a lot we may not even think of
For example yes its possible they may consider where she entered in the water ..though I think this less likely as we have never seen an interest in any other area other than the park
But could also be being used to be an expert witness to show she actually could have entered the river at the park ...imo a defence lawyer may do exactly as we did ...how is it possible she went into the water at the park and was not seen until she was in the main estuary
I think ...at the moment anyway their evidence may be circumstantial and the reason the work is so vast is they need anything and everything they can to build a case while waiting on him being confirmed a sex offender.

Very good point about proving / showing she could have entered the water there.

I still think with what little we know - the circumsantial evidence against PR would be strong. Especially if they wait until he's a convicted sex offender

 

[porkypies]

What exactly is a 'simple opportunistic sex attack gone wrong?' and how can such an event go right?
(this statement is made repeatedly and I do not think it credible at all )
Do posters think that anyone who instigates a 'simple opportunistic sex attack' is not prepared for any problems or opposition from the victim? that he hasn't given any thought to how to deal with it?
I think prisons house a good share of murderers who 'accidentally' killed their victim.
Oceanographers might be able to say whether or not a body has been out at sea for a period of time, and then possibly washed into the estuary by the tides. There may be injuries to a body that can be traced to being caused by this process, or eliminated because a defence might claim such?

 

[cluciano63]

But LE cannot say say that because P is a sex offender, for example, that Libby must have been murdered. They need to be able to prove she was murdered. If that horrible quality video is all they have to “prove” she went into his car, not sure that is enough. Jmo