Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #16 *ARREST*

[KnowNaught]

I got to the same section of @Winterbells' attachment as you did, @Cherwell. Apart from the nature of the crimes, the most damning feature for sentencing is the range of crimes, victims, locations and dates. Maybe the gravity of them is not great but there is now an admission that he has committed a range of different crimes. I wonder how many victim statements were tendered to the court! =QUOTE]
Precisely! Is there no crime he can't turn his hand to?

 

[bluesntwos]

There is definitely a fixed cctv camera on the Bev Rd/Cott Rd/Clough road junction but it would depend which way it was pointing. There was also some SM whispers of Sainsburys local on that junction having cctv images, although of course we haven"t been told anything officially, regarding any cctv images, except the oak rd one. I think even Spidercams release was only 'obtained' rather than released.

I go through bev/cott rd junction on a regular basis and the cctv has been pointing across the junction towards cott rd everytime ive gone through there so assuming it was the same on that night which ever way the astra turned (left IMO) then LE would know libby was in that car otherwise why the arrest for abduction? Im still thinking along the lines of an accomplice that PR is shielding, one of his criminal associates perhaps?

 

[Sarahlou]

For the avoidance of doubt, im in the 'it was very likely him' camp.

For all of the reasons Newthoughts pointed out.

I think LE have indicated they think it was him too, the problem is proving it.

It must be so frustrating for them. I don't know how they will prove it but I hope they can one day.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Ive always found the accomplice theory doubtful but not impossible. I just dont think these sorts of crime tend to be a joint venture, more a lone perp.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

For the avoidance of doubt, im in the 'it was very likely him' camp.

For all of the reasons Newthoughts pointed out.

I think LE have indicated they think it was him too, the problem is proving it.

I am *sort of* with you, at least in the 'proving it'. If only we knew what the police know! But I still think maybe much of their evidence is circumstantial, and obviously until now anyway, they don't have enough that they know would satisfy the CPS.

More may come out, and I will hold my hands up if so and admit I was wrong - but like I have said all along - going on what we know - I still think he is weak, not a 'ladies man', maybe has had difficulty engaging with women in past and if wife was not providing anything at home due to the two children, then he sought non-contactable ways of getting his rocks off by masturbating and voyeurism.

I am not sure he is killer material though, unless he panicked after trying it on.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

SHEFFIELD CROWN COURT

AUGUST 16

SITTING AT 11:00 am

For Sentence

T20190569 RELOWICZ Pawel P 16XP1084219 HOLDM Crown Prosecution Service
RESD TO THE RECORDER OF SHEFFIELD- DEFT TO BE PRODUCED

T20190570 RELOWICZ Pawel P 16XP1085819 HOLDM Crown Prosecution Service
S2 Sexual Offences (Amendment) Act 1992

T20190571 RELOWICZ Pawel P 16XP1084519 HOLDM Crown Prosecution Service

T20190572 RELOWICZ Pawel P 16XP1084019 HOLDM Crown Prosecution Service
S2 Sexual Offences (Amendment) Act 1992

T20190573 RELOWICZ Pawel P 16XP1086119 HOLDM Crown Prosecution Service

T20197347 RELOWICZ Pawel P 16XP1129619 HOLDM Crown Prosecution Service
S2 Sexual Offences (Amendment) Act 1992

T20197348 RELOWICZ Pawel P 16XP1129619 HOLDM Crown Prosecution Service
S2 Sexual Offences (Amendment) Act 1992

 

[Mommysleuth11]

I am *sort of* with you, at least in the 'proving it'. If only we knew what the police know! But I still think maybe much of their evidence is circumstantial, and obviously until now anyway, they don't have enough that they know would satisfy the CPS.

More may come out, and I will hold my hands up if so and admit I was wrong - but like I have said all along - going on what we know - I still think he is weak, not a 'ladies man', maybe has had difficulty engaging with women in past and if wife was not providing anything at home due to the two children, then he sought non-contactable ways of getting his rocks off by masturbating and voyeurism.

I am not sure he is killer material though, unless he panicked after trying it on.

I agree with all of what you said. In fact thats probably my most likely scenario.
Maybe he did panic after getting carried away with himself. I dont even think he sought Libby out, rather very unfortunately chanced across her.
But a lot of men have 'a dry spell' whilst there is a young family involved. Some stray, use pristitutes, strip clubs or whatever means of getting their kicks. Very few 'normal' men resort to wanking in the shadows and spying on folk, thats what sets him apart for me. Its what stands him out as predatory and not in control of his sexual urges.
Obviously MOO.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I agree with all of what you said. In fact thats probably my most likely scenario.
Maybe he did panic after getting carried away with himself. I dont even think he sought Libby out, rather very unfortunately chanced across her.
But a lot of men have 'a dry spell' whilst there is a young family involved. Some stray, use pristitutes, strip clubs or whatever means of getting their kicks. Very few 'normal' men resort to wanking in the shadows and spying on folk, thats what sets him apart for me. Its what stands him out as predatory and not in control of his sexual urges.
Obviously MOO.

Loving the say it like it is approach.

I think these behaviours escalate too don't they? In search of the thrill, bigger risks etc

 

[Newthoughts]

I agree with all of what you said. In fact thats probably my most likely scenario.
Maybe he did panic after getting carried away with himself. I dont even think he sought Libby out, rather very unfortunately chanced across her.
But a lot of men have 'a dry spell' whilst there is a young family involved. Some stray, use pristitutes, strip clubs or whatever means of getting their kicks. Very few 'normal' men resort to wanking in the shadows and spying on folk, thats what sets him apart for me. Its what stands him out as predatory and not in control of his sexual urges.
Obviously MOO.

I am *sort of* with you, at least in the 'proving it'. If only we knew what the police know! But I still think maybe much of their evidence is circumstantial, and obviously until now anyway, they don't have enough that they know would satisfy the CPS.

More may come out, and I will hold my hands up if so and admit I was wrong - but like I have said all along - going on what we know - I still think he is weak, not a 'ladies man', maybe has had difficulty engaging with women in past and if wife was not providing anything at home due to the two children, then he sought non-contactable ways of getting his rocks off by masturbating and voyeurism.

I am not sure he is killer material though, unless he panicked after trying it on.

Everything I've heard about him makes me think the opposite. I think he is killer material. That's just my opinion. But Libby is dead and somebody is responsible and it's probably him.

His offences are predatory not a normal response to frustration. The known offences go back to 2017. I'd be very surprised if there weren't other offences that either didn't reach the levels of proof required for charges or that weren't reported.

Masturbating in public, looking through windows and stealing valueless sexual items carry with them an element of getting off on women's fear response and a lack of consideration of issues like consent. Not only that they're also very brazen. Not a secret peeping Tom. That doesn't suggest someone who panics.

By all accounts he is stocky. Libby was drunk, cold, distressed and vulnerable. I can't see him struggling to overwhelm her. So I personally can't see why he'd have panicked. Rapists don't often progress to murder. Panicked people make mistakes. They don't successfully hide bodies and evidence.

It's just my opinion but everything I've heard makes me think he is killer material. Not least taking a distressed vulnerable girl into danger - shows lack of empathy.

I think his location that night had one purpose - to wait for students to follow and spy on or frighten. In my opinion Libby was just an excuse to escalate already predatory behaviour.

 

[Marulinka]

Everything I've heard about him makes me think the opposite. I think he is killer material. That's just my opinion. But Libby is dead and somebody is responsible and it's probably him.

His offences are predatory not a normal response to frustration. The known offences go back to 2017. I'd be very surprised if there weren't other offences that either didn't reach the levels of proof required for charges or that weren't reported.

Masturbating in public, looking through windows and stealing valueless sexual items carry with them an element of getting off on women's fear response and a lack of consideration of issues like consent. Not only that they're also very brazen. Not a secret peeping Tom. That doesn't suggest someone who panics.

By all accounts he is stocky. Libby was drunk, cold, distressed and vulnerable. I can't see him struggling to overwhelm her. So I personally can't see why he'd have panicked. Rapists don't often progress to murder. Panicked people make mistakes. They don't successfully hide bodies and evidence.

It's just my opinion but everything I've heard makes me think he is killer material. Not least taking a distressed vulnerable girl into danger - shows lack of empathy.

I think his location that night had one purpose - to wait for students to follow and spy on or frighten. In my opinion Libby was just an excuse to escalate already predatory behaviour.

Your post makes me re-consider what i thought might have happened. The way you described him is very convincing to me. The more I think about it the more I see your point. Thanks for sharing

 

[Niner]

Friday, August 16th:
*Sentencing Hearing – (@ 11am UK) – UK – Liberty “Libby” Anna Squire (21) (last seen Jan. 31, 2019 outside Welly Club in Hull; found 3/20/19 in Humber estuary) - *Pawel Relowicz (24) arrested (2/6/19 on suspicion of abduction) & charged (3/18/19 & 5/10/19) with 5 counts of burglary, 4 counts of voyeurism, 3 count of outraging public decency & 1 count of receiving stolen goods (Crimes committed between Jan. 25 & Jan. 28, 2018). Plead not guilty to all charges. Held without bond.
Trial was 8/12/19. Judge Richardson presiding. Will be heard in Sheffield. Trial is NOT regarding Libby’s murder.
8/12/19 Day 1: Relowicz plead guilty to 9 charges which included voyeurism (4 counts), outraging public decency (2 counts) & burglary (3 counts). Prosecution says it is not in public interest to try him on the other matters. See post #253 to charges plead guilty to: Found Deceased - UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #16 *ARREST* Sentencing will be on 8/13.
8/13/19 Update: Sentencing has been rescheduled for 8/16.

 

[jamjim]

Morning all. Just checking in ahead of the sentencing later.

See you all at 11!

 

[Audiohoney]

Everything I've heard about him makes me think the opposite. I think he is killer material. That's just my opinion. But Libby is dead and somebody is responsible and it's probably him.

His offences are predatory not a normal response to frustration. The known offences go back to 2017. I'd be very surprised if there weren't other offences that either didn't reach the levels of proof required for charges or that weren't reported.

Masturbating in public, looking through windows and stealing valueless sexual items carry with them an element of getting off on women's fear response and a lack of consideration of issues like consent. Not only that they're also very brazen. Not a secret peeping Tom. That doesn't suggest someone who panics.

By all accounts he is stocky. Libby was drunk, cold, distressed and vulnerable. I can't see him struggling to overwhelm her. So I personally can't see why he'd have panicked. Rapists don't often progress to murder. Panicked people make mistakes. They don't successfully hide bodies and evidence.

It's just my opinion but everything I've heard makes me think he is killer material. Not least taking a distressed vulnerable girl into danger - shows lack of empathy.

I think his location that night had one purpose - to wait for students to follow and spy on or frighten. In my opinion Libby was just an excuse to escalate already predatory behaviour.

YES @Newthoughts you’ve worded this brilliantly and it’s exactly the impression I have of him too.

Whether he had the specific intention to kill that awful night, I’m not sure. But I do believe it’s crossed his mind in fantasies and through thoughts of taking things further to get a bigger thrill. Then sadly the opportunity arose.

When he was first arrested I though nah, not this guy! A family man, new dad, the pictures we saw were of a very unassuming, geeky looking bloke. Remember, we knew nothing of the offences he’s since been found guilty of back then. The first thing to raise suspicions for me was ironically his sister saying Libby had been in his car but that he wanted to get her home. That didn’t fit my impression of this hardworking family man who would surely be rushing to be home with his wife and kids after a long shift. But okay, maybe being a Good Samaritan. Then these charges ... which he’s now been found guilty of. Our WS member who went to court described him as much bigger and stockier than the images shared in the press. I started to see how a scenario in which Libby came to harm in his hands would sadly be entirely plausible.

I don’t think anybody else was involved. This guy is a loner. Predatory. Likes to frighten women. And when he does so, he doesn’t run away, he creeps closer and carries on (Boxing day episode). He’s been playing with fire in his own back yard. Brazened.

I’ve been following this week. Did we get to the bottom of why proceedings were abruptly ‘halted’ ? Odd choice of words. Or the subject of what was said that could not be reported? It’s unusual surely for these crimes to not simply be dealt with on the day? Why the strange delay in sentencing? Following the thread closely and hoping for good news. I do worry that time on remand will mean he might walk free for crimes that don’t typically come with a lengthy custodial sentence.

 

[motherofdaughters]

YES @Newthoughts you’ve worded this brilliantly and it’s exactly the impression I have of him too.

Whether he had the specific intention to kill that awful night, I’m not sure. But I do believe it’s crossed his mind in fantasies and through thoughts of taking things further to get a bigger thrill. Then sadly the opportunity arose.

When he was first arrested I though nah, not this guy! A family man, new dad, the pictures we saw were of a very unassuming, geeky looking bloke. Remember, we knew nothing of the offences he’s since been found guilty of back then. The first thing to raise suspicions for me was ironically his sister saying Libby had been in his car but that he wanted to get her home. That didn’t fit my impression of this hardworking family man who would surely be rushing to be home with his wife and kids after a long shift. But okay, maybe being a Good Samaritan. Then these charges ... which he’s now been found guilty of. Our WS member who went to court described him as much bigger and stockier than the images shared in the press. I started to see how a scenario in which Libby came to harm in his hands would sadly be entirely plausible.

I don’t think anybody else was involved. This guy is a loner. Predatory. Likes to frighten women. And when he does so, he doesn’t run away, he creeps closer and carries on (Boxing day episode). He’s been playing with fire in his own back yard. Brazened.

I’ve been following this week. Did we get to the bottom of why proceedings were abruptly ‘halted’ ? Odd choice of words. Or the subject of what was said that could not be reported? It’s unusual surely for these crimes to not simply be dealt with on the day? Why the strange delay in sentencing? Following the thread closely and hoping for good news. I do worry that time on remand will mean he might walk free for crimes that don’t typically come with a lengthy custodial sentence.

I can’t think of any reason why it’s halted, not come across that before.

I guessed the media blackout might be because victims impact statements were read out? They’re allowed anonymity.

 

[Newthoughts]

Your post makes me re-consider what i thought might have happened. The way you described him is very convincing to me. The more I think about it the more I see your point. Thanks for sharing

They are just my opinions. I have to admit I do struggle with the idea of accidental killing. That's something that happens in cars or when people are careless with shotguns or awkward pushes. Given the inequality in strengths I can't see any need for panic. But that is just my opinion.

 

[Newthoughts]

YES @Newthoughts you’ve worded this brilliantly and it’s exactly the impression I have of him too.

Whether he had the specific intention to kill that awful night, I’m not sure. But I do believe it’s crossed his mind in fantasies and through thoughts of taking things further to get a bigger thrill. Then sadly the opportunity arose.

When he was first arrested I though nah, not this guy! A family man, new dad, the pictures we saw were of a very unassuming, geeky looking bloke. Remember, we knew nothing of the offences he’s since been found guilty of back then. The first thing to raise suspicions for me was ironically his sister saying Libby had been in his car but that he wanted to get her home. That didn’t fit my impression of this hardworking family man who would surely be rushing to be home with his wife and kids after a long shift. But okay, maybe being a Good Samaritan. Then these charges ... which he’s now been found guilty of. Our WS member who went to court described him as much bigger and stockier than the images shared in the press. I started to see how a scenario in which Libby came to harm in his hands would sadly be entirely plausible.

I don’t think anybody else was involved. This guy is a loner. Predatory. Likes to frighten women. And when he does so, he doesn’t run away, he creeps closer and carries on (Boxing day episode). He’s been playing with fire in his own back yard. Brazened.

I’ve been following this week. Did we get to the bottom of why proceedings were abruptly ‘halted’ ? Odd choice of words. Or the subject of what was said that could not be reported? It’s unusual surely for these crimes to not simply be dealt with on the day? Why the strange delay in sentencing? Following the thread closely and hoping for good news. I do worry that time on remand will mean he might walk free for crimes that don’t typically come with a lengthy custodial sentence.

Like you, it was his sister's unexpected comments to the press that first changed my opinion.

I'm also racking my brains for reasons the sentencing was halted. I wonder if LE were expecting a long trial and have had to rush paperwork through when he pleaded guilty? Judge needed time to reflect on defence and prosecution summing up? Judge has lots of evidence to plough through?



I hope he doesn't walk free today.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

What happens at a sentencing hearing?

When a defendant either pleads guilty or is convicted following a trial, they can be either sentenced immediately or the sentencing hearing may take place at a later date. The court will assess all aspects of the offence and the offender, aiming to arrive at a sentence that is fair and proportionate, and will explain why that sentence was given.

At the sentencing hearing:

The court will be informed of the charge and the guilty plea or verdict.
The prosecution will outline the facts of the case and draw attention to things that may make it more or less serious including the impact on victims. If a victim has made a Victim Personal Statement this will be considered by the court.
The defence will respond– they will aim to explain the circumstances of the offence and offender’s background and circumstances, in particular where they may make it less serious.
Both prosecution and defence are likely to refer to any relevant sentencing guidelines and suggest what offence category the case falls into.
If the case is being heard in the magistrates’ court and the offender has pleaded guilty or been convicted of an “either way” offence – that is, one that can be tried in Crown Court or the magistrates’ courts – the magistrates can commit the case to the Crown Court for sentencing if they feel their sentencing powers are not adequate to reflect the seriousness of the offence.
The court will pass sentence.
The Court will follow any mandatory sentencing rules such as minimum sentence for some offences;
The Court must follow sentencing guidelines where these exist for the offence(s) in question unless it would not be in the interests of justice to do so;
Guidelines set out the approach to sentencing that judges and magistrates must follow, looking at the harm caused, the culpability of the offender and any aggravating and mitigating factors;
Previous relevant and recent convictions will be considered in arriving at the final sentence;
If the offender pleaded guilty, the court is obliged to take this into account, normally giving a reduction in sentence, the level of which will depend on when in the process the guilty plea was entered;
The court will also decide if it should make any ancillary orders. These would include things like compensation for the victim, disqualification from driving or restraining orders;
If the offender is being sentenced for multiple offences, the sentence will need to take this into account so that the final sentence is proportionate to the overall offending;
The court will announce the sentence;
Sentence types are discharges, fines, community sentences, or prison sentences which may in some circumstances be suspended. However, the type of offence will dictate what sentencing options the court has;
The court will then give reasons for the sentence;
The issue of costs will be addressed with the offender liable for certain costs associated with the case.

 

[JosieJo]

Still not sure what I think about the Libby case.... if he did pick her up that night (which seems fairly likely) I'd say he would be most likely responsible for her death one way or another but could be anything from full blown planned killing ...to death being as a result of his panic...right down to leaving her to run off in a dangerous area near a river when intoxicated...and probably a number of other variations in between
Here's hoping her family get answers and get to lay her to rest soon

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Alex Grove (@AlexGroveNews) tweeted at 10:05 am on Fri, Aug 16, 2019:
It’s set to be a big day in court... @SimonBristow8 is covering proceedings live from Sheffield Crown Court as Pawel Relowicz is sentenced Live from court as Pawel Relowicz is sentenced for 9 crimes
(Alex Grove on Twitter)

 

[Little Nicki]

Good morning all. Feeling nervous about today, praying for some kind of answers for Libbys family.