UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #21

[Sooty]

5mins is the higher end - average is 2-5 and bearing in mind she was drunk, hyperthermic, cold air affects breathing and it would be a traumatic asphyxiation - I think it wouldn't take anywhere near 5 mins. IMO

Actually 7 is the higher end as I understand it. 5 is the average.

 

[Scorpiette]

I agree(see hkf's quote below). I watched him again doing something with his hands. I originally thought he might be rolling a cigarette, but he touches/rubs his face a few times. Could he have been taking drugs of some sort, to get a high? Cocaine or something? Maybe that's why he went to park earlier, to score?

I always thought the spidercam of him sitting in his car door was some kind of pivotal moment. When I watch that, it's like he is sitting there considering something and thinking it through. Just an impression I got from it.

 

[I wonder]

I have asked the court reporter this and he said 'he just didn't think to use one' ...

He has no previous convictions for rape. He had a very specific behaviour prior to meeting Libby. I think he went out for his usual sicko behaviour and came across Libby. Seeing the state she was in in terms of intoxication and vulnerability, he may have intended to take her to the park and masturbate in front of her. He then realised he could rape her. He was so excited he didn't last long. It was all such a rush of excitement that he forgot about a condom, or didn't use one because he associated condoms with his masturbation as opposed to sex.

A few other thoughts.

I think he manipulated Libby by telling her he was taking her to her mum. She was so confused, she could easily have believed that. No-one else who tried to help mentioned Libby talking about her mum and she refused help from all of them. PR said she wanted her mum and she seems to have willingly got into his car. He told her he was taking her to her mum and if she went willingly she's much easier to control and that means an increase in her speed to the rape site. The green shed he mentions would work as the place he told Libby her mum was.

Regarding possible asphyxiation, he could have stuffed her nose and mouth with snow. She had some cuts to the inside of her mouth which could have occured if he pulled on her lip and pushed snow in with force. He was scratched at this point by Libby. I think she became unconscious and he thought she'd die. I think he may have rolled Libby over so she was face down, before he left, for several reasons. He was concerned Libby's screams may have alerted people, so he left quickly.

Later he either realised his semen is inside her and/or he thinks she might not be dead. If she's found, his semen will be evidence and as a sex offender, the police will come straight to his door. He finds her and she's dead. He dragged Libby to the river and pushes her in. I wouldn't be surprised if he thought any semen would wash out of her whilst she was in the water. People say that water washes dna away. He must have been seriously shocked when told it didn't.

The final visit may be to check Libby's body had gone. It doesn't look like a fast flowing river and he undoubtedly never wanted her found or at least not to be found until the water had done its job in removing evidence.

What's particularly devastating is that raping and murdering Libby doesn't appear to have been satisfying for him. He then went back to his usual perverted behaviour. It beggars belief what a monster he is.

JMO MOO

 

[wilkela]

Actually 7 is the higher end as I understand it. 5 is the average.

exactly and you would have to apply pressure for pretty long time to kill someone
she was screaming from 0:14 for few minutes (some people saying even after 0:30am)
if he would strangle her for few minutes she wouldn't be able scream
there is no way he would rape her ,make her pass out then carry her screaming and wiggling to the river in that short period of time (all together with run back in 7.5m)

 

[wilkela]

He has no previous convictions for rape. He had a very specific behaviour prior to meeting Libby. I think he went out for his usual sicko behaviour and came across Libby. Seeing the state she was in in terms of intoxication and vulnerability, he may have intended to take her to the park and masturbate in front of her. He then realised he could rape her. He was so excited he didn't last long. It was all such a rush of excitement that he forgot about a condom, or didn't use one because he associated condoms with his masturbation as opposed to sex.

A few other thoughts.

I think he manipulated Libby by telling her he was taking her to her mum. She was so confused, she could easily have believed that. No-one else who tried to help mentioned Libby talking about her mum and she refused help from all of them. PR said she wanted her mum and she seems to have willingly got into his car. He told her he was taking her to her mum and if she went willingly she's much easier to control and that means an increase in her speed to the rape site. The green shed he mentions would work as the place he told Libby her mum was.

Regarding possible asphyxiation, he could have stuffed her nose and mouth with snow. She had some cuts to the inside of her mouth which could have occured if he pulled on her lip and pushed snow in with force. He was scratched at this point by Libby. I think she became unconscious and he thought she'd die. I think he may have rolled Libby over so she was face down, before he left, for several reasons. He was concerned Libby's screams may have alerted people, so he left quickly.

Later he either realised his semen is inside her and/or he thinks she might not be dead. If she's found, his semen will be evidence and as a sex offender, the police will come straight to his door. He finds her and she's dead. He dragged Libby to the river and pushes her in. I wouldn't be surprised if he thought any semen would wash out of her whilst she was in the water. People say that water washes dna away. He must have been seriously shocked when told it didn't.

The final visit may be to check Libby's body had gone. It doesn't look like a fast flowing river and he undoubtedly never wanted her found or at least not to be found until the water had done its job in removing evidence.

What's particularly devastating is that raping and murdering Libby doesn't appear to have been satisfying for him. He then went back to his usual perverted behaviour. It beggars belief what a monster he is.

JMO MOO

if he would drag her to the river there would be marks on the ground I didn't hear about this kind of evidence (yet)

 

[Iron Jon]

Co

exactly and you would have to apply pressure for pretty long time to kill someone
she was screaming from 0:14 for few minutes (some people saying even after 0:30am)
if he would strangle her for few minutes she wouldn't be able scream
there is no way he would rape her ,make her pass out then carry her screaming and wiggling to the river in that short period of time (7.5m)

People will try to make it fit but you cant...id doesnt work

 

[I wonder]

I agree(see hkf's quote below). I watched him again doing something with his hands. I originally thought he might be rolling a cigarette, but he touches/rubs his face a few times. Could he have been taking drugs of some sort, to get a high? Cocaine or something? Maybe that's why he went to park earlier, to score?

I think it was a nervous thing. He usually sees the woman/women and acts virtually immediately. He had to be patient. That was difficult for him. He desperately wanted to masturbate, but thought he could get even more of a thrill if he managed to persuade Libby into his car. Instead of touching his penis he touches his face. He needs to keep his hands occupied and away from his genitals and that means his face.

MOO

 

[wilkela]

Co


People will try to make it fit but you cant...id doesnt work

exactly and this is make them angry ;-)

 

[Iron Jon]

if he would drag her to the river there would be marks on the ground I didn't hear about this kind of evidence (yet)

corneilues visited the crime scene with police and hull daily mail blocking it off.. the police were at the river bank for sure, it was blocked off but they were there, i suspect they would be looking for that and anything else.

 

[HullGirl72]

exactly and it make them angry ;-)

So the police were allowed to use thousands upon thousands of pounds to get this to court, without believing he could some way do it in the time stated?
Of course they’ll have assessed the timing in the park, the govt won’t just throw money away getting cases heard if they hadn’t done the fundamental checks.
They’d have had to convince the CPS the case was strong and shown enough evidence to make the trial stand up in court.

 

[Ruthbullock]

I commented to the journalist that we hoped the prosecution would ask why he didn't use a condom with Libby - the journalist replied 'yes, did you not see? He just said he didn't think about it' ... I think that we only hear only a bit of what's said in court and what articles print can be parred down to fit column inches (usually to fit as much advertising in as possible online I feel)

The updates we have on here are not the finished articles, at the end of each day the Hull press write longer articles and add hyperlinks to the live reporting. It’s worth going back a few days every now and then abs reading the fuller articles.

 

[Iron Jon]

So the police were allowed to use thousands upon thousands of pounds to get this to court, without believing he could some way do it in the time stated?
Of course they’ll have assessed the timing in the park, the govt won’t just throw money away getting cases heard if they hadn’t done the fundamental checks.
They’d have had to convince the CPS the case was strong and shown enough evidence to make the trial stand up in court.

you ever read a book called The PlayGround...id read it if i was you. thats it im off,

very interesting site.

just think how many times the courts have put innocent people away ...its always possible. Pawel will go to prison for that rape for a long time, He has the 8 years already that hes been serving...i dont know what else he gets done for but i think there will be a few things..but maybe not the murder.

Hes going down for a long time.

 

[Sillybilly]

This thread is closed for cleanup.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

A new thread will open once members have "Liked" this post to indicate they understand.

Read the following. Do NOT discuss it and do NOT message Mods or Admins for individual explanations of removed posts.

Overnight we had 5 pages of Alerts on this thread alone. It has required a massive cleanup and a major amount of time that Mods and Admins do not have time to deal with. We have hundreds of other threads to attend to. Although we do not normally do it, if the disruption continues, we WILL close this trial discussion and make it Media *NO DISCUSSION* only.

READ THE RULES.

Discussing moderation is an automatic Time Out.

Do not discuss other members. PERIOD.

Locals do not need to provide proof/links when they are describing an area they are familiar with.

Unless it has been reported that PR has ADHD, it is off limits. There are no members who are qualified to diagnose him.

Members cannot state their opinion as fact. If it is your opinion, make that clear. If it is fact, provide a link (unless it has just recently been already linked)

Move on from the “dogging site” discussion. It’s derailing the thread. If a local states something they know about the area, they do not have to provide proof/links. Members can choose to believe it or not and move on without bickering and debating it to death.

Stop the snark, debating and bickering.

Circumventing a ban is not allowed. Members may be banned under BOTH accounts.

 

[Sillybilly]

Please continue discussion at Thread #22.