UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #22

[JosieJo]

We haven't been told that Sam didn't hear foxes or an owl or any other creature at 'around 12.30 a.m' have we?

We haven't no ....but I'm sorry I can't believe he just happened to not mention further screams from a fox while stands by his window...especially ones so "human like" ...

 

[Tortoise]

I’m more convinced with the students witnesses- we all discussed with locals at the beginning about screams being misheard and have done on other cases as foxes. on top of that we have had it confirmed they rang it into the police the day she was reported missing (which we have questioned about the other report, I’m not saying it isn’t the case, merely that we haven’t heard it stated). Also some of us were a bit dubious about the length of time in the dead of night he was seemingly looking out of the window, even for many minutes after screaming stopped, and despite only looking at his clock twice seemed to be able to guesstimate exactly how many minutes had passed. Ask anyone to predict a minute- the majority of people will be incorrect even when trying to count the seconds (look at the cube on tv if you need more proof)

BBM Do you mean SA's? He gave his statement to police on February 4th.

 

[JosieJo]

I'm not sure an urban fox in heat is going to be bothered by humans.

I'm not sure why Sam Alford didn't hear it having already been alerted to screams he described as human.

Sam Alford lives by the park so would be used to the sound of mating foxes.

Boyfriends initial thought, and current thought by the sound of it, was animal. The first thought of anyone hearing foxes mating for the first time is not animal. Second time it is. He doesn't even look out of the window.

Timing is far vaguer than Sam Alford's plus no visual support

Completely missed Alford's set of screams



Given all the other evidence and PRs lies I don't think for me that introduces sufficient doubt of his guilt. Not clear on timing could be same screams . Not clear on source could be fox

If it was a fox PW owes him big time

 

[Tortoise]

Masturbating in public is also just as illegal.

He didn't tell police about that either though.

 

[Ruthbullock]

I'm not particularly convinced as the boyfriends initial thought was animal and nobody looked. Whereas the other guy looked.

But he saw nothing apart from a man walking through the park. We know from the croda CCTV that at least four other people were walking through there as well even later than it is suggested PR was and nothing distinguishes it as PR who he saw.

 

[JosieJo]

I want him put away for a life stretch as much as the next person...hoping his lies and past convictions are burnt into the jurys minds because both witnesses have her alive at 12.19 and the timings are incredibly tight

 

[mrazda71]

We haven't no ....but I'm sorry I can't believe he just happened to not mention further screams from a fox while stands by his window...especially ones so "human like" ...

Maybe he did ... maybe in his police interview/statement giving he said 'there was foxes or an owl screeching not long after but I heard definite human screams,' police say 'layer noises definitely animal?' Sam says 'yeah you get used to hearing it living here' ... no need to mention that in court or maybe it has been discussed in court, we're only hearing a very small amount ofvwhat's actually said.

 

[Dotta]

One more witness ???? WHO?

I think the person who heard Libby shouting in the street - defence said so at the beginning

 

[Vera_dci]

The thing that stands out to me and as mentioned by previous posters. Both scream witnesses reported hearing a series of screams which sounded similar - both had intermittent screaming pattern and same estimated location. So in my opinion they heard the same screams, as neither witness heard two sets of screams.

 

[Sooty]

The thing that stands out to me and as mentioned by precious posters. Both scream witnesses reported hearing a series of screams which sounded similar - both had intermittent screaming pattern and same estimated location. So in my opinion they heard the same screams as neither witness heard two sets of screams.

I Agree @Vera_dci

 

[Ruthbullock]

I think the prosecutor would have been better off attacking the witnesses' credibility on their timings being out, not whether they could have been hearing a fox.

The argument that foxes could have been screaming not many minutes after SA heard screams rather sounds like the prosecutor's argument that at the same time Libby was screaming by the car another female was screaming by the river.

If he had argued the timings point- they could have backed up their account with a reason for knowing the timings- in which case SAs account would be discredited.

 

[JosieJo]

Maybe he did ... maybe in his police interview/statement giving he said 'there was foxes or an owl screeching not long after but I heard definite human screams,' police say 'layer noises definitely animal?' Sam says 'yeah you get used to hearing it living here' ... no need to mention that in court or maybe it has been discussed in court, we're only hearing a very small amount ofvwhat's actually said.

Unfortunately the jury won't be allowed to consider a potential thought from the witness that may or not ever occurred..even if "we" are.

If this "fox" did happen to be mentioned by Sam in court i doubt it would be missed of reports...the defence would have been all over it

 

[Skigh]

The thing that stands out to me and as mentioned by previous posters. Both scream witnesses reported hearing a series of screams which sounded similar - both had intermittent screaming pattern and same estimated location. So in my opinion they heard the same screams as neither witness heard two sets of screams.

I would go for this. Same screams at the same time. Not different ones at a later time. Human error in giving a later time.

 

[Ruthbullock]

He very almost did get away with it, had her body not been found there may never have been a court case

He was arrested before then- and if our argument is he would have got away with it if there was no dna left in her body- what does that say about the court case for murder?

 

[Vera_dci]

I doubt either witness is lying but who is correct with their timing. Sam has a text to base his timing off but not much said about second, other than checked their phone. Was this during screams or after?

 

[bos]

I'm not saying for a minute its true ...but the theory that he claims he had consensual sex then once his "anger" with her shouting and scratching at him (his version not mine) died down he went to see if she was still out wandering in the snow or had fallen down

Except that every other action by him has been through concern for himself not others. Even when he has expressed any kind of concern about his wife finding out it’s because she would leave him. Being abandoned & how that would look/be judged seems more important to him than his wife’s hurt & pain MOO

He’s a repulsive individual who I’m certain raped Libby & revisited ORPF as an exercise in self-preservation or self-gratification rather than concern for Libby’s welfare.

In murder v misadventure I’m still not sure; slightly more toward murder than the 50:50 at the beginning but this is probably due to him being a devious slime ball rather than objective evidence.

 

[Newthoughts]

The thing that stands out to me and as mentioned by precious posters. Both scream witnesses reported hearing a series of screams which sounded similar - both had intermittent screaming pattern and same estimated location. So in my opinion they heard the same screams as neither witness heard two sets of screams.

Yep that does seem likely. Which suggests the timing is the issue. 12.14 or about 12.30. 12.14 fits with the other evidence.

Personally I cannot ignore all the other evidence that has emerged. And for me PRs lies, his unconcerned return to a scene that should have had police there and his filling of a condom knowing he'd just raped someone are just too strong. But coupled with the stalking and the previous crimes no doubt has been raised in my mind.

IMO his later behaviour that night is terrifying. I can't help thinking he would have done it again that night if the chance had arisen.

I think when and if he gets out he will do it again.

<modsnip: no link to info stated as fact; off topic>
JMO

 

[JosieJo]

The descriptionsside by side

"Miss Durkin said she heard a “high-pitched female scream”.
She said: “I told Drew to be quiet so I could listen further and I heard it around three times. It lasted five to ten seconds each scream and there was a period of 15 to 20 second between the screams that I heard.

“My bedroom was at the back of the house. It sounded like it was coming from the right hand side of Oak Road playing fields. It was just screams that I heard."


"He said the screams sounded like they were coming from “the top left of the pond.”

Mr Alford said: “Initially, some screams were intermittent with 30 seconds or a minute between them."

Libby Squire trial told of 'desperate screams' at playing fields

 

[JosieJo]

Except that every other action by him has been through concern for himself not others. Even when he has expressed any kind of concern about his wife finding out it’s because she would leave him. Being abandoned & how that would look/be judged seems more important to him than his wife’s hurt & pain MOO

He’s a repulsive individual who I’m certain raped Libby & revisited ORPF as an exercise in self-preservation or self-gratification rather than concern for Libby’s welfare.

In murder v misadventure I’m still not sure; slightly more toward murder than the 50:50 at the beginning but this is probably due to him being a devious slime ball rather than objective evidence.

Yes I agree

 

[Tortoise]

I think the person who heard Libby shouting in the street - defence said so at the beginning

Yes Ryan Thom.

From defence opening -

11:41
Defence to call witness who heard Libby screaming in Beverley Road
Another witness, Ryan Thom, will be called.

Mr Saxby said he saw Libby just before midnight on Beverley Road and heard her “screaming as if to get someone’s attention.”

He said: “Just before the prosecution said she was screaming because of something sinister she was screaming in a similar fashion.”

Libby Squire trial live: Relowicz defence to start


There was also another witness who described Libby as screaming -


Another witness Lorna Allen says she was walking on Beverley Road - on the opposite side to Haworth Street - when she saw Libby just before midnight.

She said: “I saw a girl at the bus stop near Haworth Street. She was lying on the floor, crying and screaming. She was in a state.