UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #22

[Officer Dibble]

I think after he stopped at the park and Libby was out of the car, he started his routine of masturbating, and she fled as best she could, away from him and towards the river, screaming as he caught her. He may have grabbed her by the jacket sleeve, which could have easily come off. This could be the reason he returned later; to retrieve and dispose of it.

Also a feasible situation. Thanks.

 

[tedtink]

I agree but I think he has shown signs of other traits as well. MOO

• socially irresponsible behavior
• disregarding or violating the rights of others
• difficulty with showing remorse or empathy
• tendency to lie often
• manipulating and hurting others
• recurring problems with the law
• general disregard towards safety and responsibility

I understand what your trying to say, but I prefer not to label, certainly not without more info or a psych report.
We don't have any of his childhood history, any reports of behaviors growing up or teenage behaviors, school or educational reports etc
I suppose when I see the word 'psychopath' written, what I immediately see is a person on the severe end of the ASPD spectrum and I mean FAR end of the spectrum.

In fact there are many teenagers who are going through teenage angst who more than fit the criteria you listed above from google, but they're not considered psychopaths.

I'm not saying he might not be on the spectrum, but, personally, I wouldn't attempt to diagnose.

JMO

 

[Steve2021]

Personally (on the limited reporting we've heard) I'm not sure I can attribute much weight to any of the witnesses timings for the screams. But I am more interested in the man seen by Sam Alford. If he isn't PW who the hell is he? If his appearance is nothing like PW I fear everyone in Hull has cause to be very worried.

If he was not PW, given this sighting was directly after the screams, does this not strongly suggest this man is responsible for poor Libby's death?

But if this is so do we not encounter a similarly tight time window to the 7.5 minutes available to PR only a few minutes earlier? After all, if PW is to be believed neither he nor Libby entered the park by the time he left at 12.19 am. So, in the maybe 10 minutes between 12.19 and the sighting of this man leaving the park is it conceivable Libby could have left Oak Road, somehow been attacked by him, gone through the park and been put in the river, and the man have time to cover the ground back from the river to Oak Road?

Alternatively of course PW is lying and he left Libby in the park, which would then provide a greater window for the random stranger to attack her, put her in the water etc. and make his way back to Oak Road. But if he has felt the need to lie why? What is he trying to hide?

Finally, I submit PW can hardly expect the jury to determine that telling them he didn't enter the park was a lie, and then apply this to his advantage by determining this then allows for the possibility of a random stranger to be responsible for Libby's death.

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[ChiCubs2016]

I understand what your trying to say, but I prefer not to label, certainly not without more info or a psych report.
We don't have any of his childhood history, any reports of behaviors growing up or teenage behaviors, school or educational reports etc
I suppose when I see the word 'psychopath' written, what I immediately see is a person on the severe end of the ASPD spectrum and I mean FAR end of the spectrum.

In fact there are many teenagers who are going through teenage angst who more than fit the criteria you listed above from google, but they're not considered psychopaths.

I'm not saying he might not be on the spectrum, but, personally, I don't see the need to label that's all.

This is why I label my post MOO as they are my opinion. I do not expect people to agree. I am just stating my opinions and thoughts. MOO
Edit to add:
With all due respect, in reference to my google search. I also have experience with a family member who has all these traits and has been diagnosed appropriately. Google was just the easiest way for me to add the traits.

 

[Steve2021]

Personally (on the limited reporting we've heard) I'm not sure I can attribute much weight to any of the witnesses timings for the screams. But I am more interested in the man seen by Sam Alford. If he isn't PW who the hell is he? If his appearance is nothing like PW I fear everyone in Hull has cause to be very worried.

If he was not PW, given this sighting was directly after the screams, does this not strongly suggest this man is responsible for poor Libby's death?

But if this is so do we not encounter a similarly tight time window to the 7.5 minutes available to PR only a few minutes earlier? After all, if PW is to be believed neither he nor Libby entered the park by the time he left at 12.19 am. So, in the maybe 10 minutes between 12.19 and the sighting of this man leaving the park is it conceivable Libby could have left Oak Road, somehow been attacked by him, gone through the park and been put in the river, and the man have time to cover the ground back from the river to Oak Road?

Alternatively of course PW is lying and he left Libby in the park, which would then provide a greater window for the random stranger to attack her, put her in the water etc. and make his way back to Oak Road. But if he has felt the need to lie why? What is he trying to hide?

Finally, I submit PW can hardly expect the jury to determine that telling them he didn't enter the park was a lie, and then apply this to his advantage by determining this then allows for the possibility of a random stranger to be responsible for Libby's death.

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[tedtink]

Personally (on the limited reporting we've heard) I'm not sure I can attribute much weight to any of the witnesses timings for the screams. But I am more interested in the man seen by Sam Alford. If he isn't PW who the hell is he? If his appearance is nothing like PW I fear everyone in Hull has cause to be very worried.

If he was not PW, given this sighting was directly after the screams, does this not strongly suggest this man is responsible for poor Libby's death?

But if this is so do we not encounter a similarly tight time window to the 7.5 minutes available to PR only a few minutes earlier? After all, if PW is to be believed neither he nor Libby entered the park by the time he left at 12.19 am. So, in the maybe 10 minutes between 12.19 and the sighting of this man leaving the park is it conceivable Libby could have left Oak Road, somehow been attacked by him, gone through the park and been put in the river, and the man have time to cover the ground back from the river to Oak Road?

Alternatively of course PW is lying and he left Libby in the park, which would then provide a greater window for the random stranger to attack her, put her in the water etc. and make his way back to Oak Road. But if he has felt the need to lie why? What is he trying to hide?

Finally, I submit PW can hardly expect the jury to determine that telling them he didn't enter the park was a lie, and then apply this to his advantage by determining this then allows for the possibility of a random stranger to be responsible for Libby's death.

Anyone have any thoughts?

This may have been discussed in the past as I've only been on this thread since the trial, but the 'cuffed jeans' could he mean the dark colour at the bottom of PW's jeans that made them look like they were 'cuffed'.

Does anyone know what colour the street lamps were near the park if any please?

 

[Steve2021]

The screen resolution of my devices doesn't enable me to do so, but I think yesterday someone posted video of the car arriving/leaving Oak Road. Has anyone established from this exactly where it parked and whether there were flashes for it being locked and unlocked. I've noted what people have said about this being a habitual act to some, but if for instance the car was parked right by the green shed I really wouldn't expect PW to have locked it, which I would suggest lends weight to him having gone into the park. I may be wrong, but I don't think he locked it on his trip to Tesco.

 

[ChiCubs2016]

The screen resolution of my devices doesn't enable me to do so, but I think yesterday someone posted video of the car arriving/leaving Oak Road. Has anyone established from this exactly where it parked and whether there were flashes for it being locked and unlocked. I've noted what people have said about this being a habitual act to some, but if for instance the car was parked right by the green shed I really wouldn't expect PW to have locked it, which I would suggest lends weight to him having gone into the park. I may be wrong, but I don't think he locked it on his trip to Tesco.

This makes sense. If you were staying right by your car, why would you lock it? Good point.

 

[Sooty]

Personally (on the limited reporting we've heard) I'm not sure I can attribute much weight to any of the witnesses timings for the screams. But I am more interested in the man seen by Sam Alford. If he isn't PW who the hell is he? If his appearance is nothing like PW I fear everyone in Hull has cause to be very worried.

If he was not PW, given this sighting was directly after the screams, does this not strongly suggest this man is responsible for poor Libby's death?

But if this is so do we not encounter a similarly tight time window to the 7.5 minutes available to PR only a few minutes earlier? After all, if PW is to be believed neither he nor Libby entered the park by the time he left at 12.19 am. So, in the maybe 10 minutes between 12.19 and the sighting of this man leaving the park is it conceivable Libby could have left Oak Road, somehow been attacked by him, gone through the park and been put in the river, and the man have time to cover the ground back from the river to Oak Road?

Alternatively of course PW is lying and he left Libby in the park, which would then provide a greater window for the random stranger to attack her, put her in the water etc. and make his way back to Oak Road. But if he has felt the need to lie why? What is he trying to hide?

Finally, I submit PW can hardly expect the jury to determine that telling them he didn't enter the park was a lie, and then apply this to his advantage by determining this then allows for the possibility of a random stranger to be responsible for Libby's death.

Anyone have any thoughts?

These are interesting points raised.
I would just add that the man seen may have no relevance to Libby at all.

Just to add further, he does unlock the car on the Tesco cctv though.

 

[tedtink]

This is why I label my post MOO as they are my opinion. I do not expect people to agree. I am just stating my opinions and thoughts. MOO
Edit to add:
With all due respect, in reference to my google search. I also have experience with a family member who has all these traits and has been diagnosed appropriately. Google was just the easiest way for me to add the traits.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, that's why we're here.
I haven't agreed or disagreed, I'm just discussing the subject that's all.

 

[Sooty]

The screen resolution of my devices doesn't enable me to do so, but I think yesterday someone posted video of the car arriving/leaving Oak Road. Has anyone established from this exactly where it parked and whether there were flashes for it being locked and unlocked. I've noted what people have said about this being a habitual act to some, but if for instance the car was parked right by the green shed I really wouldn't expect PW to have locked it, which I would suggest lends weight to him having gone into the park. I may be wrong, but I don't think he locked it on his trip to Tesco.

It’s at 1:12 on the video on this link

CCTV released of Pawel Relowicz on night of Libby Squire's 'murder'

 

[Miss_French]

According to his testimony he didn't know he raped someone...only after serious thought and thinking about the law itself might he realise that even accepting a so called "come on" from someone who cannot consent...according to him of course

You say PR didn't know, but sometimes neither do supposed victims of rape. I mentor on a chat forum and it's desperate how many young women post on there who, from their stories, know what happened, but don't understand consent and that they have been raped, and are asking is that what happened to them.

 

[tigerowl]

I'm not sure if this post will be allowed - so apologies mods if not as it is not directly related, but...

These comments put me in mind of something I once saw, I think, on Crimewatch. It was a girl in an alleyway just off a main street. I think somewhere in the North East but I am not sure. She had been pulled into this alleyway and raped. She was then raped two further times. All captured on CCTV. I believe at the time of the appeal, they did not know whether it was just two further men passing by who happened to see her and take advantage or if they were related to the original man and he had sent them there as she was vulnerable and in a state. I don't know why, but I always felt it was just opportunistic men passing by. Maybe that could have happened in Libby's case. She met a fate worse than PR after he left her.

I am only wondering. There were probably not many people in the vicinity of ORPF at the time. The CCTV efforts have only shown us a few but it is also debateable if the man the screaming witness saw was indeed PR.

Until now, my own belief has been that he did leave her at the park and Libby unfortunately got herself in the river by whatever traumatic means led her there - but now, I really am minded of that other poor girl and wonder if there is a possibility someone else could be involved. Far fetched and unlikely but I keep seeing that other girl in the CCTV in my head and can't stop thinking about it.

 

[tigerowl]

I don't know if I can post links and I'm not sure of the rules around it so please delete if inappropriate.

I was hazy on the details in my above post and got a little bit wrong but this is the story.

Hunt for sex predators after girl, 17, attacked 3 times in 1 hour on way home (VIDEO) — RT UK News

 

[Steve2021]

In my opinion...

So PW's defence to rape is that Libby wanted to have sex with him. A beautiful young woman, with a sex drive to match his own, upset and freezing cold but hey nothing that won't be made better by lying down on wet snowy grass at the side of a road and having sex with a complete stranger. He must have thought all his Christmases had come at once, he'd found the girl of his every dream, a girl in a million or more likely multiple millions, a girl it could take a lifetime's search to find. But obviously he's a busy man so as much as he'd like to stay with her or offer her a lift home he really can't. Not to worry, he will take her number or some other contact details and they can meet again soon, very soon. But oh no, he just drives off, yeah like you would. Utterly ludicrous, how on earth does he think anyone would believe that?

Only my opinion. If anyone believes otherwise do say.

 

[Sarahjo]

I'm not sure if this post will be allowed - so apologies mods if not as it is not directly related, but...

These comments put me in mind of something I once saw, I think, on Crimewatch. It was a girl in an alleyway just off a main street. I think somewhere in the North East but I am not sure. She had been pulled into this alleyway and raped. She was then raped two further times. All captured on CCTV. I believe at the time of the appeal, they did not know whether it was just two further men passing by who happened to see her and take advantage or if they were related to the original man and he had sent them there as she was vulnerable and in a state. I don't know why, but I always felt it was just opportunistic men passing by. Maybe that could have happened in Libby's case. She met a fate worse than PR after he left her.

I am only wondering. There were probably not many people in the vicinity of ORPF at the time. The CCTV efforts have only shown us a few but it is also debateable if the man the screaming witness saw was indeed PR.

Until now, my own belief has been that he did leave her at the park and Libby unfortunately got herself in the river by whatever traumatic means led her there - but now, I really am minded of that other poor girl and wonder if there is a possibility someone else could be involved. Far fetched and unlikely but I keep seeing that other girl in the CCTV in my head and can't stop thinking about it.

There was another case similar to this, a 14 year old I believe who was raped and she flagged over a car for help and the driver also raped her.. utterly horrific and almost unbelievable but it opens up questions in this case, especially seeing the other man, picked up by the croda CCTV, run out of oak road less than an hour later.. I mean highly unlikely, but...

 

[Dotta]

There was another case similar to this, a 14 year old I believe who was raped and she flagged over a car for help and the driver also raped her.. utterly horrific and almost unbelievable but it opens up questions in this case, especially seeing the other man, picked up by the croda CCTV, run out of oak road less than an hour later.. I mean highly unlikely, but...

Mind boggles... I have no words..

 

[tedtink]

In my opinion...

So PW's defence to rape is that Libby wanted to have sex with him. A beautiful young woman, with a sex drive to match his own, upset and freezing cold but hey nothing that won't be made better by lying down on wet snowy grass at the side of a road and having sex with a complete stranger. He must have thought all his Christmases had come at once, he'd found the girl of his every dream, a girl in a million or more likely multiple millions, a girl it could take a lifetime's search to find. But obviously he's a busy man so as much as he'd like to stay with her or offer her a lift home he really can't. Not to worry, he will take her number or some other contact details and they can meet again soon, very soon. But oh no, he just drives off, yeah like you would. Utterly ludicrous, how on earth does he think anyone would believe that?

Only my opinion. If anyone believes otherwise do say.

Totally agree with this.

 

[Steve2021]

We have seen from the Croda video that even in the early hours of the morning there is the occasional person who walks or cycles along Oak Road. Unless the sex was truly consensual, which I consider preposterous, is it conceivable PW would rape poor Libby by the side of the road when if anyone came along in the 7.5 minutes he was there he'd be done for? Even if he fled his car number etc would be clocked by the passer by. I'm increasingly feeling he must be lying again and that he did enter the park.

 

[C.greek]

There was another case similar to this, a 14 year old I believe who was raped and she flagged over a car for help and the driver also raped her.. utterly horrific and almost unbelievable but it opens up questions in this case, especially seeing the other man, picked up by the croda CCTV, run out of oak road less than an hour later.. I mean highly unlikely, but...

Only PR's DNA was found and from the CCTV no other suspect was found. If that were the case the defence would have mentioned it.