UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #22

[Newthoughts]

First visit: arrives at 21.13 by car and leaves at 21.25. I don't know about the wet knee, sorry.

I thought the wet knee was after the third visit on his way to masturbate but I'm not sure.

 

[Zazie]

Amazing work with the updates and summaries @jamjim - thank you.

 

[Alyce]

I'm surprised they didn't carry on with defence closing speech and do judges comments tomorrow

I think that indicates that the Defence is going to be circa 2 hours and he wouldn't want to do it split over 2 days.

 

[Alyce]

Thankyou @jamjim - our personal Court Reporter

 

[mrazda71]

I'm surprised they didn't carry on with defence closing speech and do judges comments tomorrow

Yes, there's surely only going to be about 19 seconds worth :/

 

[bos]

Thanks again @jamjim -sterling work!

 

[elliefant]

Welcome back @Niner , what an amazing improvement they were able to achieve.

Thank you again @jamjim , brill as always.

Great job Mr Wright.

 

[Newthoughts]

Does anyone know what time PR's first visit to the park was and whether that was by car?

And when was he spotted on CCTV with the wet knee? Was that after he had been home, got changed and been back to the park for the third time? Was he on foot that time?

Thanks.

This is the footage of the wet knee. It's after the third visit. So he'd been home, had a bath, got changed and went out again.

He went in his car to the park. I think it suggests he got out there in Newlands to intercept another woman but ended up masturbating alone

Why his knee is wet is unknown

https://www-hulldailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/new-cctv-pawel-relowiczs-stroll-4910489.amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA==#aoh=16121930472255&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/new-cctv-pawel-relowiczs-stroll-4910489

 

[Niner]

Welcome back @Niner , what an amazing improvement they were able to achieve.

Thank you again @jamjim , brill as always.

Great job Mr Wright.

Thank you - it is amazing the medical improvements in the last few years. I probably would have died of a stroke...

and YES!!! @jamjim - a BIG THANK YOU - I wouldn't be able to take some notes if it wasn't for you!

 

[agme28]

This is the footage of the wet knee. It's after the third visit. So he'd been home, had a bath, got changed and went out again.

He went in his car to the park. I think it suggests he got out there in Newlands to intercept another woman but ended up masturbating alone

Why his knee is wet is unknown

https://www-hulldailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/new-cctv-pawel-relowiczs-stroll-4910489.amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA==#aoh=16121930472255&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/new-cctv-pawel-relowiczs-stroll-4910489

I wonder if the clothes he was wearing earlier in the evening (petrol station) were the same ones he changed into after he returned home from the park with Libby or were they the same ones all evening till he got changed? Did he have an explanation for why he changed his clothes?

 

[mrjitty]

but if he didn’t leave her actually inside the park and rather outside the park on the street could it still be deemed negligent manslaughter?

edited by me

I think you get into a lot of potentially difficult arguments that would require analysing previous cases

On the one hand, it is reasonably clear his unlawful assault placed her at risk of harm - he took her to a remote place to sexually assault her, and took her away from a well lit, trafficked public area where she was safe. So in a very real way, he would have caused her death when any reasonable person would have realised he was placing her at risk.

I think the real issue is whether his conduct would have been the cause of death. Let's say he was chasing her in the park and she runs into the water by accident - then his unlawful actions directly cause death. But at some point it gets too indirect. So let's say his version is true and they never were in the park, then libby wanders into the park later and falls in by accident 30 mins later - did he cause that?

Obviously on some level he did, but in terms of the law, you could argue that he wasn't the direct cause at that point - rather she died because of decisions she made.

IMO this is why the prosecution didn't open this whole can of worms - it makes sense for them to be all in on murder

I am OK with that. In my opinion, only the accused knows exactly what happened and he won't tell us. But one way or the other, her blood is on his hands.

 

[Dotta]

I think that indicates that the Defence is going to be circa 2 hours and he wouldn't want to do it split over 2 days.

It seems Defence is preparing for fierce battle - argument against argument. Tomorrow will be interesting.

 

[LastSeenWearing]

This is the footage of the wet knee. It's after the third visit. So he'd been home, had a bath, got changed and went out again.

He went in his car to the park. I think it suggests he got out there in Newlands to intercept another woman but ended up masturbating alone

Why his knee is wet is unknown

https://www-hulldailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/new-cctv-pawel-relowiczs-stroll-4910489.amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA==#aoh=16121930472255&referrer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s&ampshare=https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/new-cctv-pawel-relowiczs-stroll-4910489

I think it's relevant that PR had a wet knee of his trousers after his third visit to ORPF rather than his second. If the trouser knee was wet after his second visit it could be from when he kneeled on the ground to have sex rape Libby. But then if he went home and changed and washed the clothes he was wearing on his second visit, for what reason would his knee be wet in his newly changed clothes for his third visit. He would have no reason to kneel or get his knee wet on the third visit unless like the prosecution state he was moving her body into the river kneeling on one knee to pick her body off the ground? I can't think why else his changed clothes would have a wet knee? MOO

 

[LastSeenWearing]

Another explanation of PRs wet trouser knee after his third visit to ORPF could be he knelt on one knee on the river bank to check downstream or to look over the river bank to make sure her body was gone not stuck by the sides of the river and then drove around the streets near the area to make sure she hadn't re-emerged from ORPF after managing to get out of the river. When he had no sightings of Libby he then thought he might use the time to search for other women to masturbate at. JMO

 

[Sooty]

Maybe to kneel to peer through a letterbox? That would fit previous behaviour certainly and with what we know his intentions were at that time.

 

[agme28]

I'm leaning towards PR being guilty on charges of rape AND murder now.

I feel Libby was unlikely to be given the opportunity to escape once PR had overpowered her which was probably very quickly given her vulnerable state.

It also seems he had plenty of opportunity to walk away from her but he didn't. He watched and waited and then got her into his car with a plan in mind.

If there was a chance she had been raped but had escaped him, how would he be so confident as to be prowling the streets again just a few hours later? Wouldn't he be panicking that she could have raised the alarm OR ended up in great danger at his expense by falling in the river? He shows no hint of panic or remorse at any time which makes him a very dangerous individual by my reckoning. I hope justice is done for Libby and her family.

All MOO.

 

[Winterbells]

Given he's claiming to be innocent, he hasn't even tried to act the part. An innocent man who'd had consensual sex with a young woman who wound up dead after he'd left her on her own in the dark, late at night, would at the very least be saying how sad and sorry he feels that he'd been so uncaring.

 

[Dotta]

I think it's relevant that PR had a wet knee of his trousers after his third visit to ORPF rather than his second. If the trouser knee was wet after his second visit it could be from when he kneeled on the ground to have sex rape Libby. But then if he went home and changed and washed the clothes he was wearing on his second visit, for what reason would his knee be wet in his newly changed clothes for his third visit. He would have no reason to kneel or get his knee wet on the third visit unless like the prosecution state he was moving her body into the river kneeling on one knee to pick her body off the ground? I can't think why else his changed clothes would have a wet knee? MOO

Was it mentioned earlier that "wet knee" had grass marks either? Did police state it? I ask because I don't remember.

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

It seems Defence is preparing for fierce battle - argument against argument. Tomorrow will be interesting.

I think the defence will come across as badly as they have done so far. I don't think there will be much of an argument or battle tbh. JMO

 

[Sooty]

Was it mentioned earlier that "wet knee" had grass marks either? Did police state it? I ask because I don't remember.

i believe that was the trousers worn up until he went home after the second trip to the park. As I understand, he changed his trousers after his bath.